Commentary: Episode #01

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

The Work in Progress

Not to get too ahead of things... We still have some work to do on the OP (dratted thing), but I figured we might as well start preliminary discussion on ep #01. As I've been throwing the commentary page together, a number of questions have been popping into my mind...

1) Is there any particular reason why the U.N. Officers are at NERV H.Q.? Why weren't they just battling Sachiel from their usual place of operations? And where is the JSSDF? (Has the JSSDF just become the Japanese subdivison of the U.N. in NGE?)

2) So why does Sachiel decide to arrive JUST AS Misato is picking Shinji up? And he passes through the very city where Shinji is waiting, no less. Is this what we'd call a blatant plot contrivance?

3) Which city IS it, anyway (where Sachiel fights the UN)? Was it just a rendezvous point or was that where Shinji'd been living with his sensei? I'm guessing the former, but Gendou's letter does say "COME!". So why didn't Shinji just get shipped directly to Tokyo-3?

4) What the hell was Gendou waiting around for, anyway? He had only started doing synchronization tests between Rei and EVA-00 several months before, and we know how well the epitome of THOSE went. And even before Rei was temporarily out of commission, Gendou only had one pilot for two Evas. Why didn't he summon Shinji a helluva lot sooner? For that matter, why did he get rid of one of his key assets -- Shinji -- in the first place? Wasn't that a rather counterproductive move on his part?

5) So evidently, according to NGE2, Sachiel isn't screwing up: He's purposely going for Lilith. Any idea what he hoped to gain by that? And, considering his apparent goal, Sachiel seemed to be rather interested in encountering EVA-01... I mean, he went to the EXACT spot where she would emerge and waited for her intently. Is this because of the Shogouki-Lilith connection? Did he think he was going to be encountering Lilith at first? If so, why did he decide to start attacking Sho? Because he realized that "this isn't the super-entity I'm looking for"? Still, in ep #01, Sachiel only actually fought back when provoked; does a few awkward steps forward really count as "provocation"?

I'm probably looking at a lot of things far too closely, but NGE -exists- to be overanalyzed. Image Besides, some of my questions might actually be relevant, who knows.

Originally posted on: 21-May-2004, 17:47 GMT

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Postby EVAN -1 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

3) Which city IS it, anyway (where Sachiel fights the UN)? Was it just a rendezvous point or was that where Shinji'd been living with his sensei? I'm guessing the former, but Gendou's letter does say "COME!". So why didn't Shinji just get shipped directly to Tokyo-3?

I guess if you look at the map and battle readouts in 032a you can get Sachiel's location to Tokyo-3. Or perphapes it's just Tokyo-2, since old Tokyo would be too damaged for the scenery.

Originally posted on: 21-May-2004, 18:34 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Reichu wrote:The Work in Progress:
Part A
Part B
[NOT to be directly commented on yet]

Not to get too ahead of things... We still have some work to do on the OP (dratted thing), but I figured we might as well start preliminary discussion on ep #01. As I've been throwing the commentary page together, a number of questions have been popping into my mind...

1) Is there any particular reason why the U.N. Officers are at NERV H.Q.?

Because NERV is a UN special agency?...
Why weren't they just battling Sachiel from their usual place of operations? And where is the JSSDF? (Has the JSSDF just become the Japanese subdivison of the U.N. in NGE?)

Perhaps repeling Angels is the UN's bailiwick. The UN is, after all, pretty much SEELE's creature, post 2I...
2) So why does Sachiel decide to arrive JUST AS Misato is picking Shinji up? And he passes through the very city where Shinji is waiting, no less. Is this what we'd call a blatant plot contrivance?

But of course!... Image This is simply efficient storytelling, intertwining the arrival of the Angel, and Shinji's arrival at NERV, to meet the other main character, Misato, and to meet his father again etc...

3) Which city IS it, anyway (where Sachiel fights the UN)?

No idea what this town is called, but it's 13 km from Tokyo 3. The Combat Situation Display indicates that Sachiel comes ashore just east of Tokyo 3, and is headed over the mountains to the Geo-Front...

Originally posted on: 22-May-2004, 08:12 GMT

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Postby Gundampilotspaz [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Reichu wrote:5) So evidently, according to NGE2, Sachiel isn't screwing up: He's purposely going for Lilith. Any idea what he hoped to gain by that? And, considering his apparent goal, Sachiel seemed to be rather interested in encountering EVA-01... I mean, he went to the EXACT spot where she would emerge and waited for her intently. Is this because of the Shogouki-Lilith connection? Did he think he was going to be encountering Lilith at first? If so, why did he decide to start attacking Sho? Because he realized that "this isn't the super-entity I'm looking for"? Still, in ep #01, Sachiel only actually fought back when provoked; does a few awkward steps forward really count as "provocation"?

I don't think we should use information from NGE2, just use the information from the show.

3) Which city IS it, anyway (where Sachiel fights the UN)? Was it just a rendezvous point or was that where Shinji'd been living with his sensei? I'm guessing the former, but Gendou's letter does say "COME!". So why didn't Shinji just get shipped directly to Tokyo-3?

That must of been a rendezvous point in tokyo-3.


2) So why does Sachiel decide to arrive JUST AS Misato is picking Shinji up? And he passes through the very city where Shinji is waiting, no less. Is this what we'd call a blatant plot contrivance?

Plot device Mr. Frodo, plot device.

1) Is there any particular reason why the U.N. Officers are at NERV H.Q.? Why weren't they just battling Sachiel from their usual place of operations? And where is the JSSDF? (Has the JSSDF just become the Japanese subdivison of the U.N. in NGE?)

Nerv is a UN controled organazation, and since angels are a world crisis they would take care of it. My guess is that the JSSDF wouldn't be equiped for the job. The UN must be overseeing Nerv and giving orders before letting Gendo do his first battle alone. Remember no one really trusts Gendo.

4) What the hell was Gendou waiting around for, anyway? He had only started doing synchronization tests between Rei and EVA-00 several months before, and we know how well the epitome of THOSE went. And even before Rei was temporarily out of commission, Gendou only had one pilot for two Evas. Why didn't he summon Shinji a helluva lot sooner? For that matter, why did he get rid of one of his key assets -- Shinji -- in the first place? Wasn't that a rather counterproductive move on his part?

Well Rei was JUST hurt. He must of sent for Shinji right after that.

Ritsuko said in Episode 5 "It happened just before you arrived here" or something close.

Originally posted on: 21-May-2004, 21:44 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Gundampilotspaz wrote:I don't think we should use information from NGE2, just use the information from the show.

Why not? NGE2 is, for what I know, perfectly canonical material.

Originally posted on: 21-May-2004, 21:52 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Gundampilotspaz wrote:I don't think we should use information from NGE2, just use the information from the show.

Dr. Nick is right, of course. NGE2 = canon.

That must of been a rendezvous point in tokyo-3.

Sachi's battle with the UN was clearly not in Tokyo-3. Consult Shin-seiki's screenshot -- Tokyo-3 was 13 km to the west.

The UN must be overseeing Nerv and giving orders before letting Gendo do his first battle alone. Remember no one really trusts Gendo.

How does that explain why the UN officers leave the Command Center right after transferring command of the operation to Gendou? THEY evidently trust him enough not to babysit. And considering that NERV is "a private organization under the direct supervision of the U.N.", it seemed more like NERV were the ones monitoring the U.N. during the Sachiel fight, rather than vice versa. I'm really confused.

Well Rei was JUST hurt. He must of sent for Shinji right after that.

That wasn't the point. Even before Rei was hurt, Gendou had one pilot and TWO EVAS. And Rei was pilotting EVA-00 exclusively. Remember, they didn't do the first compatibility experiment between her and EVA-01 until episode #14 (although in #01 they were already prepared to load Rei's data into Sho). Gendou obviously could have used Shinji long before Rei took the plunge, yet he didn't bother summoning him until the latest possible moment. Why?

Originally posted on: 21-May-2004, 22:02 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Reichu wrote:Dr. Nick is right, of course. NGE2 = canon.

Image


Gendou obviously could have used Shinji long before Rei took the plunge, yet he didn't bother summoning him until the latest possible moment. Why?

...He thought it was best for Shinji this way? "When I'm with Shinji, I only hurt him. So, it's better that I do nothing." Just a suggestion...

Originally posted on: 21-May-2004, 22:30 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Reichu wrote:1) Is there any particular reason why the U.N. Officers are at NERV H.Q.? Why weren't they just battling Sachiel from their usual place of operations? And where is the JSSDF? (Has the JSSDF just become the Japanese subdivison of the U.N. in NGE?)

Most likely just for effect. It allows Gendo to look down on them, literally.

Reichu wrote:2) So why does Sachiel decide to arrive JUST AS Misato is picking Shinji up? And he passes through the very city where Shinji is waiting, no less. Is this what we'd call a blatant plot contrivance?

Plot device.

Reichu wrote:3) Which city IS it, anyway (where Sachiel fights the UN)? Was it just a rendezvous point or was that where Shinji'd been living with his sensei? I'm guessing the former, but Gendou's letter does say "COME!". So why didn't Shinji just get shipped directly to Tokyo-3?

Tokyo 1 or 2 I think. Certainly not 3, as they have to drive a decent distance to it.

Reichu wrote:4) What the hell was Gendou waiting around for, anyway? He had only started doing synchronization tests between Rei and EVA-00 several months before, and we know how well the epitome of THOSE went. And even before Rei was temporarily out of commission, Gendou only had one pilot for two Evas. Why didn't he summon Shinji a helluva lot sooner? For that matter, why did he get rid of one of his key assets -- Shinji -- in the first place? Wasn't that a rather counterproductive move on his part?

I think that again would come under plot device. It wouldn't work to have Shinji do his angsting, then wait a year or two for the action.

Originally posted on: 21-May-2004, 22:38 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Sharp-kun wrote:Tokyo 1 or 2 I think. Certainly not 3, as they have to drive a decent distance to it.

It's certainly not Tokyo 1, which is a good ways to the north and east. Tokyo 3 was built in Hakone, at the north end of Lake Ashi, in the vicinity of Fujiyama, which can be seen looming on the horizon in various exterior shots.

I seem to recall Tokyo 2 being referred to as "Tokyo 2 (formerly So-and-so city)" somewhere... Probably some real place in Japan, but I doubt it's anywhere close to where Sachiel comes ashore.
I think that again would come under plot device. It wouldn't work to have Shinji do his angsting, then wait a year or two for the action.

Indeed; the whole point of ep01 is to have Shinji show up, and immediately have his father tell him that he must get in this scary-looking "giant robot" (his words, not mine, Reichu!), and fight the Angel to save the world...

Originally posted on: 21-May-2004, 23:07 GMT

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Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

I like Dr. Nicks explanation on why Shinji showed up so late. Gendo may be a bastard of sorts but he obviously has some sort of emotions towards his son and his wife. I like to think he wanted to wait to the last possible instant before he brought Shinji back. To give him some more time of peace I guess before he f***ed up his life.

Originally posted on: 22-May-2004, 11:39 GMT

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Postby Gundampilotspaz [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:02 pm

Reichu wrote:That wasn't the point. Even before Rei was hurt, Gendou had one pilot and TWO EVAS. And Rei was pilotting EVA-00 exclusively. Remember, they didn't do the first compatibility experiment between her and EVA-01 until episode #14 (although in #01 they were already prepared to load Rei's data into Sho). Gendou obviously could have used Shinji long before Rei took the plunge, yet he didn't bother summoning him until the latest possible moment. Why?

Well maybe they didn't trust Unit-01 yet. Ritsuko said the chance of operation of .00000000001. They couldn't use a pilot on an Evangelion that didn't work yet. Or the Marduke report wasn't in till late and Shinji might not of been picked as a suitable canidate.

Originally posted on: 22-May-2004, 17:25 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Gundampilotspaz wrote:Or the Marduke report wasn't in till late and Shinji might not of been picked as a suitable canidate.

Shinji was the only candidate who could have piloted EVA-01 (Actually, Rei could as well but that's it), Gendo must have known as much.

Originally posted on: 22-May-2004, 17:57 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

tv33 wrote:Shinji was the only candidate who could have piloted EVA-01 (Actually, Rei could as well but that's it), Gendo must have known as much.

Theoretically not. They could have changed the core to another soul.

Originally posted on: 22-May-2004, 18:19 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Sharp-kun wrote:Theoretically not. They could have changed the core to another soul.

You think Yui would have sat still for that? Image "I didn't give up womanhood just to become another red sphere on the shelf! This is MY body!!! GWARRRRRRRRRR!!!"

And, Dr. Nick, good point on the Shinji-Gendou front. I guess in that twisted mind of his, he really did believe "Sorry, son, but this is for your own good" when he abandoned Shinji.

Psychiatric counseling DEFINITELY needs to become more mainstream in Japan.

Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 04:57 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Reichu wrote:And, Dr. Nick, good point on the Shinji-Gendou front. I guess in that twisted mind of his, he really did believe "Sorry, son, but this is for your own good" when he abandoned Shinji.

I think that Dr. Nick is sort of on the right track, but I think you're both giving Gendo too much credit for alleged good intentions; I would say, rather, that Yui nailed it when she said "So, you were afraid of Shinji"...

Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 05:09 GMT

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Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:I think that Dr. Nick is sort of on the right track, but I think you're both giving Gendo too much credit for alleged good intentions; I would say, rather, that Yui nailed it when she said "So, you were afraid of Shinji"...

He was afraid that Shinji wouldn't like him so he kept Shinji away from him serving his 2 views, I think.

Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 05:28 GMT

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Postby Jinpun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:I think that Dr. Nick is sort of on the right track, but I think you're both giving Gendo too much credit for alleged good intentions; I would say, rather, that Yui nailed it when she said "So, you were afraid of Shinji"...

That was my thought. I don't think Gendo would have have risked having only one pilot just to ensure that he wouldn't hurt Shinji

But I'm still with Sharp on this one, I think its more creative license and serves as a plot device.


Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 05:57 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Jinpun wrote:But I'm still with Sharp on this one, I think its more creative license and serves as a plot device.

Still, if it is possible, I like finding a concrete explanations for things that don't rely wholly on plot contrivances. NGE uses plot devices, to be certain, but its not nearly as guilty as some other fiction out there. That's one of the reasons I find it so interesting.

And, heh, nobody's touching my Sachiel-Lilith questions. I'm so disappointed in you people. Image

Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 06:32 GMT

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Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

On the Sachiel Lillith thing. It seems very viable. He definatley wasn't hostile; just when he was screwed with (don't know why anyone in their right mind would attack something like that) he screwed back. And when he saw EVA-01 he seemed a bit confused.

Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 07:01 GMT

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Postby Jinpun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:03 pm

Reichu wrote: And, considering his apparent goal, Sachiel seemed to be rather interested in encountering EVA-01... I mean, he went to the EXACT spot where she would emerge and waited for her intently.

I'm not so sure that is true. After rewatching the scene it seems that Sachiel was still rampaging around, then stopped and looked as the hatch in which EVA-01 emerged from opened up. Perhaps Sachiel somehow "knew" EVA was coming, but the whole "waited for her intently" part I'm not so sure on...

Originally posted on: 23-May-2004, 07:05 GMT


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