Episode Pages

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Episode Pages

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Postby V » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:29 pm

[ITT, we discuss episode pages in general.

The original first post did say that at one point, but... side effect of merging an older thread into a newer one.]



What should be the name used as the title of articles for episodes?

There are 3 version that could be used:

lets use episode 8 as an example

Japanese title (actually 2 versions) = アスカ、来日 (kanji title) and "Asuka, rainichi"


Direct Translation: "Asuka's Arrival in Japan"

The official English name: "Asuka STRIKES!"

Over on wikipedia, I used the "official" English names.

However, some of these were kind of wacky....i.e. episode 12, ""She said, "Don't make others suffer for your personal hatred.""" or episode 15 ""Those women longed for the touch of others' lips, and thus invited their kisses.""


I think it should either be the official english name (some of the names like "Asuka Strikes!" are just what I think of the episodes "as".....OR, just refer to them as "episode 1" and "episode 20" for convenience.

Normally (on other wikis) this might be a problem, but keep in mind that neither Rebuild or Live-Action will have "episodes" (on a Star Trek wiki you can't say "episode 10"...episode 10 of Next Gen or Deep Space Nine?)...I don't think this will be a problem.

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Postby thewayneiac » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:57 pm

I've been giving both in the episode summaries we've done so far, examples:

Ep. 2: Unfamiliar Ceiling/The Beast
Ep. 5: Rei I/Rei Beyond her Heart.

This seems to work because both titles are always shown on screen during the ep.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?

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Postby V » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:54 am

Maybe use that as an "Act break"?

err....in shows like Star Trek that are 4 Acts long, we separate it as:

"Amok Time"

Act 1
Act 2
Act 3
Act 4

no wait...that's not what the 2 "halves" of an Eva episode are called....it's just them flashing 2 names to be confusing...crud.

Ok I'll go with what's there.

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:35 pm

I could add two extra fields to the episode template if you like. "English name" and "Japanese name". Then the template can automatically insert them in whatever format you decide on, and we easily can change it later.

I think "episode xx" is enough for the article title, especially since the actual episode names are so fuzzy. It's also how everyone refers to them.

There's another issue here though. How do we distinguish between the originally aired episodes and the director's cut episodes? Should they each have a separate page? Which should be the default? How to do we fit in End of Evangelion into this?

I originally separated them using the conventional xx' notation, but how should we "canonically" arrange them. In other words, what should our default episode list look like. Should it b:e

#01-#20,#21'-#26'
#01-#20,#21-#26
#01-#20,#21-#24, #25', #26'
#01-#20,#21'-#24', #25, #26, #25', #26'
#01-#20,#21'-#24', #25', #26'

Which should we make?
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Postby V » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:30 pm

I'm going to do what I did on Wikipedia.org; in the episode succession box just have it branch between episode 25 and EoE.

As for the NPC Director's Cut, again, it starts out as a subsection of just "episode 24" saying what's different.

I think a snag everyone ran into here was planning how EvaWiki will branch and such, but actually with wikis I've been on what one does it let stuff "grow"; subsections that grow too long get turned into their own article, with a link on the main page. I.e., if "whose soul is in Eva 00" starts out as a "Analysis" section on "episode 14" but grows to be really long and *involved*, it gets its own article linked through episode 14's analysis section.

I'll get on it...

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:49 pm

V wrote:I think a snag everyone ran into here was planning how EvaWiki will branch and such, but actually with wikis I've been on what one does it let stuff "grow";

My sentiments exactly.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:31 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:I think "episode xx" is enough for the article title

Pretty much.


especially since the actual episode names are so fuzzy.

Each episode has two titles, and these are unchanging. The only thing that really varies is what the Japanese title is translated as. Both titles should be provided every time -- the first in raw Japanese, the second as given. The Japanese title can be subsequently broken down into romaji and what is deemed an accurate translation.

How do we distinguish between the originally aired episodes and the director's cut episodes? Should they each have a separate page? Which should be the default?

Not different enough to justify separate pages. DC as default. The changes from OA to DC could perhaps be summarized in brief. A separate page would also be created for each episode describing the differences between the two versions in vivid detail.

#01-#20,#21'-#24', #25, #26, #25', #26'

Yes, with DEATH between the two endings.
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Postby V » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:56 pm

I'm going to rearrange them so Director's Cut information is just a large subsection of episode articles 21-26, noting the differences. And if they get too long, they branch off but are linked through the other.

Better to go ahead and get that finished so I can show you what I mean...
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:53 pm

I think the page names for the first ten episodes would be better off left as "Episode 0x" instead of "Episode x". The lack of a zero is playing all hell with the episode order in things like Category pages

Edit:
I've changed the episode template to include both Japanese and english title fields. I've also changed the episodes template calls as well. What's the Japanese title for Magmadiver?
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Postby Ornette » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:20 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:What's the Japanese title for Magmadiver?

Isn't it just "Magma Diver"?

マグマダイバー

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:24 pm

So what's the english title then?
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Postby Ornette » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:54 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:So what's the english title then?

It is also Magma Diver. Says that in the beginning and in the middle (in English).

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Postby V » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:57 pm

add in a "01" based system?

Okay.

That will take a bit of time though.
Who is "Codename V"?....
I'm pleased to meet you and I hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game...so catch me if you can!! (0:50)
"Superior ability breeds superior ambition" -- Spock, Star Trek TOS episode 1.24 "Space Seed"
You say you say you want a REvolution?...
-->It was only after I lost everything, that I realized: I was free to do anything...

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Episode Pages

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Postby Reichu » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:51 pm

ITT, we discuss random stuff on the episode pages in general.

First of all, I would like the template to provide slots for both titles, as opposed to cramming (A) only a translation of the first title and (B) the English title above the screenshot. I guess something like this, directly below the thumbnail:

[code:1]_____________________________________
| Title 1 | 使徒、襲来 (Shito, Shuurai) |
| | [Angel Attack] |
|_________|_________________________|
| Title 2 | Angel Attack |
|_________|_________________________|
[/code:1]
Only not quite as ugly.

Also, V has been including a lot (well, "a lot" to someone such as myself) of dub-related material in the episode pages. Given FGP's long-standing ... standing on the matter, I would just as soon have 90% or more of references to dubs segregated to pages devoted specifically to that sort of thing. Anywhere else, they strike me as clutter.

Thoughts?
Last edited by Reichu on Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby V » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:48 pm

Reichu I don't think there is enough of it to justify calling it clutter and removing it

maybe one episode page has two notes on it about dub translation and of the rest, only a few have one note. As for Quotes, I was only going to include english dub quotes that were "significantly different" and noteworthy (i.e. if they REALLY screwed something up, we should explain to the newbs what the problem was)

That is to say, I really think we should keep info about the English dubs simply because 1-there isn't that much to begin with 2-it will inform and educate those that only saw the English dub about what the "proper" form of the show ACTUALLY said.

As for broadcast info about "this got edited in such and such a way on Adult Swim", again I treat this as 1-it's not taking up much space 2-it is informative 3-if this is to be the greatest guide to Eva ever, the most comprehensive, it couldn't hurt to have a few other notes sprinkled in.

In principle, if a fan from Germany comes here and has something noteworthy to say about the German dub version, I think they should be able to put it in.

It's not taking up that much space anyway.
Who is "Codename V"?....
I'm pleased to meet you and I hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game...so catch me if you can!! (0:50)
"Superior ability breeds superior ambition" -- Spock, Star Trek TOS episode 1.24 "Space Seed"
You say you say you want a REvolution?...
-->It was only after I lost everything, that I realized: I was free to do anything...

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Re: Episode Pages

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Postby thewayneiac » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:21 pm

Actually, I think that the episode summaries are sort of cluttered. My fear is that causal fans will have to read through too much Fan-geek stuff to find the info they need to gain a greater understanding of the show. However, since most of us here are Fan-geeks ourselves and enjoy this sort of trivia, we would not want it excluded altogether. So my proposal is:

Give each page in the episode guide a subsidiary page titled "More Episode 01 Notes and Analysis", "More Episode 02 Notes and Analysis", ect., reachable by a "more" link at the bottom of both the notes and analysis sections. Then have someone go through and decide which items in these sections are are relevant to understanding the show; these would stay on the episode's main page. The Fan-geek trivia would be removed to the subsidiary page. In some cases it would be a judgement call, but usually it would be reasonably obvious. For instance:

Things to keep on the Episode's main page:

It's likely Rei 3 that Shinji sees in ep. 01.
The mountain Shinji visits in ep. 04 is a famous suicide spot.
Toji implies his mother is dead.

Things to move to the subsidiary page:

What kind of car does Misato drive?
How do the Nerv elevators work?

The dub quotes can be removed to this page as well, if V insists on keeping them. My own opinion is that the only legitimate reason for quoting the dub is to point out its shortcomings, and that dub quotes as a regular feature should go "bye-bye" altogether.

That something like this needs to be done is evidenced by the fact that V recently removed a vitally important exchange of dialog, Ritsuko's confrontation with Misato over her motives, from the episode 12 summary, siting space. He substituted a shorter exchange about Shinji's rising synch rate.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?

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Re: Episode Pages

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Postby Reichu » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:58 pm

The "Wiki" episode pages for what FGC has actually tackled seem to reiterate any number of things present in the commentary. Unless these are entirely basic points, I'd just as soon RESTRICT such tidbits to the commentary (while making allowances for mention on more "specific" pages). Otherwise -- what's the point, really?

Things to keep on the Episode's main page:

It's likely Rei 3 that Shinji sees in ep. 01.

I think it would be better to use Shinji's weird sighting as an excuse to link to a Rei's Phenomenal Quantum Powers page.

What kind of car does Misato drive?

This can just be put on Misato's page.

The dub quotes can be removed to this page as well, if V insists on keeping them. My own opinion is that the only legitimate reason for quoting the dub is to point out its shortcomings, and that dub quotes as a regular feature should go "bye-bye" altogether.

My thoughts exactly. I have every bit of gratitude for V's work, but "treat the Japanese version as the default" basically means "treat the dub as if it doesn't exist by default". With little exception, I am extremely uncomfortable having "dub stuff" anywhere except in "designated quarters".

"Designated quarters" would include things like "script comparisons", although I'm not sure such an undertaking is really high up on The List.
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Postby V » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:19 pm

I'll segregate all of the info about airing on Adult Swim and English dub quotes into separate articles.

I'm doing like 5 things at once now :)
Who is "Codename V"?....
I'm pleased to meet you and I hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game...so catch me if you can!! (0:50)
"Superior ability breeds superior ambition" -- Spock, Star Trek TOS episode 1.24 "Space Seed"
You say you say you want a REvolution?...
-->It was only after I lost everything, that I realized: I was free to do anything...

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Postby Reichu » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:37 pm

Most important things first, right? Like my template. :tongue:
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:38 pm

The Episode template has been updated as per the request. See it in action here or on any other episode page. If you need any other changes, let me know.(or dive into the deep dark code pit. Beware!)

I fully support thewayneiac's proposal for moving notes, analysis, etc onto separate pages. A smidgen of trivia or two might no go amiss on the page, but notes should be kept elsewhere. As a matter of fact, perhaps bite sized notes could get their own template, so they can be easily called in analysis pages, but let me tinker with this idea for a bit.

As to the dub, I think every episode will need to have a dub notes/differences/errors page, where the various flaws and indeed high points of the dub can be noted. As to canonicity, while the Japanese episodes are the ones we are working from, I think we need to clarify which translation we are using as well.

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You need a break every now and then too. Remember you have underlings now. Explo... use them wisely.
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