A L I E N

[JP]

Yeah, the Sci-Fi classic. Usually when I'm about to fall asleep, I'll put a movie on, and recently, I watched the original Alien. Two things caught my attention

1, When the characters are detaching from their mother-ship into a smaller ship, the pilot mentions a detachment of an umbilical cable. That sounded familiar :P


Sheer coincidence, I thought, but when the movie was over, I remembered that the Supercomputer AI of the mothership is codenamed "Mother". So, when speaking to it, the characters will say, "Mother, blah blah blah, etc".

http://www.animexpansion.com/Art/MxBot/RitsukoAkagiMxBot.jpg






I apologize for the pic, I was going to find a Ritsuko picture from EOE, but this one just...I dunno.

Anyway, think some Eva inspiration was going on here, or did Eva get inspired? Or maybe it's just all a coincidence.

[Sandoz]

think some Eva inspiration was going on here,

Alien was released in 1979. No.

Ridley Scott's Blade Runner and Alien are two of the most influential sci-fi films of all time, and Eva has referenced works that are much more obscure (see the recent post on a Wind in the Door ref) so an Alien ref is possible though I think it's a bit of a stretch.

[The Eva Monkey]

There's no way Anno could not have seen Alien. Although I don't know of any confirmed references to Alien in Eva. However, another of Cameron's works, The Abyss, includes liquid breathing like Eva.

[Shawn Dudley]

Sheer coincidence, I thought, but when the movie was over, I remembered that the Supercomputer AI of the mothership is codenamed "Mother". So, when speaking to it, the characters will say, "Mother, blah blah blah, etc".

I wouldn't read too much into that. A number of SF works have characters projecting family personalities onto super AI-type computers. Anno's concept of the Senior Dr. Akagi's character-embedded comuputer was just the latest.

As far as the LCL/liquid oxygen reference, that technology was well known before Abyss came out - some SF novels written in the 70s (don't ask me to give you the titles....) had the concept for fighter pilots of near-lightspeed craft because of the extremely high Gs that you'd pull doing that. The overall concept is rather cool, however, and EVA took it to a new level.

I think if Anno learned one thing from ALIEN, it was that humans are probably just as nasty as any other aliens you're bound to find out there.

[Skullraper]

I believe there are many thematic similarities between Evangelion and science fiction of the late 60’s and early 70’s. Specifically ALIEN and 2001: A Space Odyssey. (I would highly recommend both films if you’ve never seen them.) The similarities don’t just take the form of references either. Although I don’t believe Anno ever referenced ALIEN in his work I am certain that he makes several nods to 2001 both in references and in the general concepts of the plot. The ideas of transhumanism and scientific “magic” are both prevalent in 2001 and Evangelion. Also, ALIEN was heavily inspired by 2001 thematically and visually so it’s no coincidence that all three works are similar in a way. In my opinion all three works form a kind of creative continuum as all are based on an amoral universe were humanity is subject to or evolves into something which is ultimately transhuman. This in turn has its roots in the horror fiction of HP Lovecraft. I suppose all of fiction represents a kind of evolutionary tree.

[NAveryW]

The main thing that interests me (and holds any ground for me) here is "umbilical cable".

[Mr. Tines]

The main thing that interests me (and holds any ground for me) here is "umbilical cable".

That is a long-standing usage; the power/telemetry/tether-line for the first space walks was referred to as an umbilical cable. That was 1965 -- and I don't think it was a novel coinage even then (it would have had currency in underwater equipment, for example).

[Skullraper]

The main thing that interests me (and holds any ground for me) here is "umbilical cable".

In that case...............coincidence.

Something else just occurred to me though. Don’t the MP eva’s heads vaguely resemble the alien’s head in ALIEN? The MP eva’s exaggerated lips even remind me of Giger’s early concepts for the alien.

[chee]

The ideas of transhumanism and scientific “magic” are both prevalent in 2001 and Evangelion. Also, ALIEN was heavily inspired by 2001 thematically and visually so it’s no coincidence that all three works are similar in a way. In my opinion all three works form a kind of creative continuum as all are based on an amoral universe were humanity is subject to or evolves into something which is ultimately transhuman. This in turn has its roots in the horror fiction of HP Lovecraft. I suppose all of fiction represents a kind of evolutionary tree.

Ah, but here's the thing: in 2001, the transformation is a positive thing; in Alien and NGE, the transformation is primarily a negative one.

If you look at it a a certain way, NGE can be thought of as the flip side of 2001. There's also a quite a bit of William Burroughs and David Cronenberg in NGE as well (The relationship and intersection between technology and humans; focus on human sexuality; pessimistic stance towards human nature; conspiritorial institutons; apocalyptic undertones; questions concerning identity)

[Skullraper]

Good point chee. However, it’s questionable if instrumentality in EoE had a negative result. Usually transhuman concepts go beyond ideas of good and bad. Although I would agree having a monster burst through your ribcage is BAD! By the way, have you ever read Arthur C. Clarke’s sequels to 2001? They definitely expound on the events of the movie and resolve some of the ambiguous events in the film. If you have read them I’m sure you’ve noticed the parallels between The Firstborn and the First Ancestral Race.

[chee]

I never managed to get through any of the books the whole way through, although I read large chunks of 2001 and 3001. I thought 3001 was pretty good; I don't know why I stopped reading it. As for 2001...I actually think the movie surpassed the book, judging from what I read.

I will say that I never expected Frank Poole to be brought back.

In addition to Kubrick and Cronenberg, I think the works of Mamoru Oshii and Shinya Tsukamoto would be appropriate for this discussion as well. Both touch on posthuman themes (ESPECIALLY Oshii)

[V]

I cannot count the number of "space" movies or shows that refer to external power cables as "umbilical cables" it's just a phrase that makes sense

[Skullraper]

Actually chee, I’m not familiar with Oshii or Tsukamoto. I’ll have to look them up. On the topic of “umbilical cable” I think the term could be seen as a symbolic reference in Evangelion as well as just being the proper term for a large utility line. By using the term “umbilical” the cables function is being likened to that of an umbilical cord. But I suppose the same is true for any use of the term “umbilical cable”. Essentially the evas are being presented as infants of the angel Adam. The evas lack the ability to power themselves and are thus bound to the “womb” of human science. Or maybe I’m looking into it to deeply.

[Mr. Tines]

Actually chee, I’m not familiar with Oshii

Movies include : Ghost in the Shell, Patlabor, and Avalon.

or Tsukamoto.

Tetsuo, amongst others.

I suppose the same is true for any use of the term “umbilical cable”.

Quite.

[chee]

Skullraper-

In regards to Oshii, I highly recommend Patlabor 2, the original Ghost in the Shell, Angel's Egg, and The Red Spectacles. (I personally think he's the best anime "auteur" working today, including Miyazaki.) As for Tsukamoto, make sure you don't miss Tetsuo and A Snake of June. Crazy, CRAZY awesome stuff.

Tines-

I hear you have the R2 of Avalon. What's it like not having annoying dubtitles ruining the movie?

[Mr. Tines]

I hear you have the R2 of Avalon. What's it like not having annoying dubtitles ruining the movie?

Once you've managed to navigate the menus all in moon, much like it was to watch it in the cinema. :P

[Mr. Tines]

Double-post clearing collision...

Tines-

Ah.

Question: What do YOU think happened at the end of Avalon? I think Ash became one of the "unreturned" at the end.

Skullraper-

What about Rei? There's something a little "transhuman" about her character in my opinion, referring to that whole notion of the "self" as a replaceable object via biotechnological means.

I wonder what Baudrillard would have thought of NGE? He DID once write about the possibility of the body becoming a prosthesis of itself or something like that...

[Mr. Tines]

I think Ash became one of the "unreturned" at the end.

It looked rather like that.

[chee]

Yeah, pretty much.

Have you seen Oshii's earlier live-action film Talking Head? I find it interesting that last shots of Avalon, if you compare them, parallel those of Talking Head (It's worth noting that Patlabor 2 was his follow-up. Indeed, Talking Head, Avalon, and Patlabor 2 [his masterpiece IMHO] seem to be where Oshii's interest in the whole concept of hyperreality become most apparent. But i've gone off-topic long enough.)

[Skullraper]

What about Rei? There's something a little "transhuman" about her character in my opinion, referring to that whole notion of the "self" as a replaceable object via biotechnological means.

I formulated an absurdly long response to your statement. Posting it in this forum would make it even more absurd since the original topic was the use of the term “umbilical cable” in the movie ALIEN! In light of this I’m going to open a new forum in the discussion area with my response. Feel free to join the speculation.