Dual! and Evangelion the same??

[Dark FireStar]

I have always wonderd this and haveing know eva fans near me was never able to find out if it really is so. I doubt that most of you have heard of this 14 Epsoid serise but i really think its worth discussing.

[Phaze]

This might be better under "Related Works."
And yes, Dual! was clearly influenced by Evangelion, quite a number of series has been. Even then, I wouldn't call them "the same." Aside form a few similarities in characters and humor.

[The Eva Monkey]

Evangelion is a show that took a lot of elements from Macross, Mobile Suit Gundam, and Ideon, mixed them around and created a phenomenon. Since then, many shows have tried to duplicate that. And some times, its even been spoofed. Nadesico is most definitely a good example of this, as is Dual! Parallel Trouble Adventure. Dual is blatantly and admitadly an Evangelion and Nadesico spoof, its not a rip off, but is actually considered a respectful homage to Evangelion, within Japanese film making. In Japan, it is flattering to mimic or spoof a previous work that you admired, provided you admit that's what you're doing. As is the case with such works as Dual, Nadesico, and RahXephon.

I can't speak for Dual, as I have not seen it yet, but it looks to be fun and somewhat enjoyable show. I would most certainly like to see it, if its anything at all along the lines of Nadesico, which was a great show.

[Dave]

Um... are you trying to say that Nadesico borrowed from Eva? Is there some hidden connection I'm missing (aside from big robots and angsty pilots)?. And they were only released a year apart. Perhaps there is an official statement from someone who worked on Nadesico alluding to this idea? Or perhaps your just mad that you can't listen to Akito without thinking: "Don't run away Shinji!"? In any case: RURI RURI!

[The Eva Monkey]

I've come across a few fairly detailed breakdowns of this. I ought towrite one of my own or aquire one for the written statements section at some point. But for now, I'll just list some similarities.

Shinji and Akito are both reluctant male protagonists
Asuka and Ryoko are both fiery and bitchy, and the protagonist's foil
Rei and Ruri are both mechanical and emotionless
The Magi ~ Omoikane
AT Fields ~ Distortion Fields
Nerv/Fig Leaf ~ Nergal/Cherry Blossom
Both have ambiguous attackers that at first appear to be alien but end up being human
Ritsuko ~ Blond Scientist (Can't remember her name)
Plug Suits ~ Innertia suits
A10 nerve connectors ~ Nanomachine connectors

You can play both intros for each show together and they're fairly well synched and similar structurally.
There's more comparisons to be made. But I can't think of any more right now.

[Dave]

The question is: were the people who made Nadesico consciously trying to make it like Eva? I do not think so. The two shows have a very, VERY different feel to one another. They are both anime; both are created in Japan around the same time. Of course there are going to be some similarities. As for that list of similarities.

Asuka is most definitely a main character, and she acts the way she does because of how her mother died. On the inside, she is just a frightened child. Ryoko really is a fiery character, it is part of her personality. And in no way is she Akito's foil. Where the hell did that come from?

The Magi ~ Omoikane - Omoikane is sentient, the Magi are not. Please, just because both happen to be computers does not mean they have anything in common.

AT Fields ~ Distortion Fields - The AT field is created by a living beings mind and soul. The distortion field is created by a machine. 'Force Fields' have existed in science fiction since the beginning of time. This is a worthless parallel; it's like saying Shigouki's AT Field is a rip off of the U.S.S. Enterprises's force field.

Nerv/Fig Leaf ~ Nergal/Cherry Blossom - I'll give you this one, I can see how Evangelion could have influenced this part of Nadesico. However, Nerv remains the 'good guys' while Nergal turns from the 'good guys' to the 'bad guys' later on in the show.

Both have ambiguous attackers that at first appear to be alien but end up being human - The angels may technically be human, but come on. You can't compare the Jovian's to gigantic, eccentricly designed creatures of might. And don't even dare say Nadesico takes the whole 'unknown attackers' thing from Evangelion.

Ritsuko ~ Blond Scientist (Can't remember her name) - Ms. Ines is a spoof on science fiction shows tendency to dump all the explaining on the 'scientist lady'.

Plug Suits ~ Innertia suits - Don't see any special relation between Evangelion and Nadesico here. How many anime shows with robots don't have pilots wearing suits?

A10 nerve connectors ~ Nanomachine connectors - Once again, I don't see any special semblence between Nadesico and Evangelion.

I stand by my belief that while they may be similiar, Nadesico doesn't really take anything from Evangelion. I would find it perfectly believable that the people who created Nadesico hadn't even seen Evangelion before making the show.

[The Eva Monkey]

The question is: were the people who made Nadesico consciously trying to make it like Eva?

Yes. To an extent, Nadesico came around the point where Eva had become a very big thing in Japan. The creators acknowledged that it had many things in it like Eva. It wasn't trying to be an Eva clone, as it features references to other mecha as well. But it is an imitative work in the exact same sense that Eva is an imitative work.

And while on this subject, I submit the following:

(I was thinking that the Nadesico into was similarly structured, but its just a spoof, still conveys the similarities pretty well.)

http://www.cyberdojo.com/PixieDust/anime/Movies/Nadesico vs Evangelion.avi

[Dave]

Evangelion and Nadesico are not imitative works. The creators may have been influenced by past shows, but they did not create Eva And Nadesico simply by imitating previous anime. That's like saying every single science fiction series with dragons and elves is an imitative work simply because they borrow from Tolkien.

[The Eva Monkey]

Evangelion and Nadesico are not imitative works.

Dude, you have some reading to do, cause even Anno said it was an imitation, right off the bat.

http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_anno01.php
http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_shea04.php
http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_shea09.php

[Dave]

They say, "To live is to change." I started this production with the wish that once the production complete, the world, and the heroes would change. That was my "true" desire. I tried to include everything of myself in Neon Genesis Evangelion-myself, a broken man who could do nothing for four years. A man who ran away for four years, one who was simply not dead. Then one thought. "You can't run away," came to me, and I restarted this production. It is a production where my only thought was to burn my feelings into film. I know my behavior was thoughtless, troublesome, and arrogant. But I tried. I don't know what the result will be. That is because within me, the story is not yet finished. I don't know what will happen to Shinji, Misato or Rei. I don't know where life will take them. Because I don't know where life is taking the staff of the production. I feel that I am being irresponsible. But... But it's only natural that we should synchronize ourselves with the world within the production. I've taken on a risk: "It's just an imitation." And for now I can only write this explanation. But perhaps our "original" lies somewhere within there.

Somehow, I don't think he was referring to previous shows.

http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_shea04.php
He proves a valid point, but it isn't the point he thinks. A comparison like that can be done with ANY two Mecha shows. Does this mean there are no original shows, that everything is simply a copy of the first? Of course not. Building upon previous works yields new results, not simply imitations.

http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_shea09.php
Evangelion belongs to a certain genre, and a lot of shows in that genre share common themes. This does not mean they are all imitations of one another. And just because Anno was influenced by shows such as Ideon does make Evangelion any less original. Sometimes the greatest works must incorporate the half-answers of many smaller works.

[The Eva Monkey]

There are some very clear parallels. Simply take a look at the following:

http://www.animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=156641

Misato is based off of a character from Lupin, Pen Pen is based off of Mr. Pen Pen, a children's show in Japan. There's countless references, influences, and homages in Eva to previous works. I can't understand how you can say that Eva is not imitative.

Especially when Anno has stated that it is imitative, that he incorporated parts of himself in it, and that he drew upon other work. It is explicit from the writer and director himself that Eva is not original in any way, because he drew so much from previous shows. Gainax was in a rut for 4 years, coinciding with his depression, where they could create nothing "new". One day he just ignored their desire to create something new and just allowed himself to create something from those before him. And he did it in such a way that it was seen as new and creative. Many people will disagree with it, but if you're fairly well versed on anime, you will know that there is very rarely a new idea, and many refer to Anno as the one who first acknowledged the fact that it is impossible to create something orginal anymore.

Hell, I have a hell of a time simply trying to explain to new anime "style" they think is original is actually just an imitation of Disney. This is a fact, but people will not accept it.

[Dave]

Imitation - adj. made to imitate a genuine, and usually superior, article

I have no problem believing that Evangelion, along with the current anime style, borrows from other peoples creations. I do however have a problem with people who claim that it is unoriginal. Anno took elements from many past shows, and using them made a new, ORIGINAL, BETTER, show called Shin-Seiki Evangelion. . Evangelion is more popular than any show it might, or could, have borrowed from. If it is nothing more than an imitation, how is this possible? Why are the originals not more popular? Just because something came first does not mean it is better, nor does it mean that everything following is nothing more than mere imitation.

[NeonZ]

:?

http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_shea04.php

SEE?! I told you that that article implied that Eva was a rip-off of Gundam! Did you believe me? No.

I've never talked about the intention of the author, but the article itself does imply it. But that structure is flawned in many ways, it's not funny...

Here, read this, it's a parody of that article.

I'll start with the name of the main charachter... let's call him... Mark, although that's not his actual name. Mark is a Japanese teenager, just like Shinji. It is stressed that his mother is dead, and he spent years without seeing his father again. In the first episode, we see a huge form moving through water, just like Sachiel in the first episode of Eva. Soon, the city Mark lives in is attacked by a giant humanoid monster with a skull shaped head, which easily defeats the conventional army. The city is heavily damaged, and the army is utterly innefective. Mark ends up in the cockpit of a powerful robot, just as the laboratory it was built in is attacked by the enemies. He tries to use it to save everyone, even though he had no previous knowedge of giant robots.But, when he gets to pilot it, he can't control it, and almost hurts the people he was trying to protect, just like Shinji.

Soon, Mark finds himself in a special organization created to fight against the mysterious enemy. But, even though he enters in this organization, he continues to live a "normal" live, even continuing to go to school, just like Shinji. Unfortunatly, Mark isn't suited for the life of a Mecha pilot, and often he's in conflict with his superiors, particularly with a male authority figure who had a part in creating the organization, and the mechas used by it, just like Gendo in Eva.

Like Shinji, Mark is unconfident in his abilities in the beginning, but slowly gets used to it and realizes he is better than he originally thought. There is a period when this puts him and trouble, and Mark becomes overconfident in his abilities. Luckily, this particular thought soon goes away.

Mark initially has a bad relationship with his father, who left him years ago. Meanwhile, his father learned of the coming of a menance which could wipe out the whole humanity, and built a giant robot to fight against it. To pilot it, he raised a child to become a pilot. That child initially seems to have become a cold person, but later shows feelings. Aren't them just like Gendo and Rei? And that's not all, upon learning of the relationship of the other pilot with his father, Mark initially envies the other pilot, though later they become friends.

But that's not all. Just like in Eva, the base of the good guys is protected by three mechas. The third one is met only after the first two, and is piloted by an overconfident pilot, who often ended up crippled by the enemy, and being saved by Mark. One of the three mechas blows himself up to save Mark, everyone is sad for the death of the pilot, but, soon, the pilot reappears fine, exactly like Rei did after blowing up Unit-00.

There's another scene that seems like its taken straight out of the movie. Enemy troopers burst into the headquarters of our heroes and kill many, but their mission ultimately ends up being a failure and they are unable to take the main part of the base.

Also, just like in Eva, during most of the series, only one enemy appeared in each episode, but during the movie that ended the series, a large group of very powerful enemies appeared at the same time, and completely destroyed one of the hero mechs who attempted to face the enemy troops by itself, just like Unit-02 in the movie.

Ok, I think I've already proved that this is very similar to Eva, right? Now it's time to reveal the name of the anime, right?

Mazinger Z

http://www.gearsonline.net/designers/mazinger-z.jpg

Don't you know what Mazinger Z is? It's the first Super Robot anime, the first anime which used robots with cockpits, and which came out several years before Mobile Suit Gundam, in the early 70s.

Now, anyone who has watched Mazinger Z will know that it's nothing like Eva, at all, even though everything I've said is true. So...? Can you see how it's useless to try to compare shows through some artificial summaries?

I can't comment on the Ideon comparations as I haven't watched it, but, for my thoughts on that article comparing Eva and Gundam, see the RahXephon topic in this forum.

Yes. To an extent, Nadesico came around the point where Eva had become a very big thing in Japan. The creators acknowledged that it had many things in it like Eva. It wasn't trying to be an Eva clone, as it features references to other mecha as well. But it is an imitative work in the exact same sense that Eva is an imitative work.

Nadesico... an imitative work in the same extent of Eva?

Nadesico, the series, is, in many aspects, a parody of the entire mecha genre. That classifies it as much more imitative than Eva.

You'll find references there from all mechas shows... from the 70s Mazingers and Getters, passing through Gundam, and even Eva. It's a derivative work to a much greater extent than Eva, but it's also original, exactly because no other series before that one had taken so many elements and put everything together. In fact, I wouldn't say that the Eva's references are even among the main ones.

[Dave]

Quit phrasing my arguements better than me NeonZ. You'll give me a bad rep.

[The Eva Monkey]

In my view, this just further proves my point. Everything is a copy, of a copy, of a copy, of a copy....

By the way, Anno is a HUGE Go Nagai fan.

[Dave]

What's Go Nagai?

[The Eva Monkey]

Go Nagai is the creator of Cutey Honey, Devilman, Mazinger, and Black Lion, among others. He's kind of an under appreciated creator in the western anime circuit. He pioneered some of the elements of Sentai and Mecha, two genres that Anno in particular is a huge fan of. Go Nagai's influence is subtle but noticible in Anno's work.

[Dave]

You mean Sentai shows actually exist?!?! And here I thought that the Daitenzen was an exaggeration! Daitzenzen GO!

[SSGokuJr]

Dual to me is like a cross between Tenchi and Evangelion and I liked it. I also saw some where that said that the person who did the designs for the Evas did the designs for the Core Robots in Dual.

[Defectron]

Well I liked the first half of dual which I thought was pretty well done. I didn't care much for the second half because it pretty much just turned into a harem anime at that point and as in every harem anime I got the urge to start kicking the bland male protagonist.