So, was emo Asuka really trying to be AN HERO in #24?

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So, was emo Asuka really trying to be AN HERO in #24?

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Postby Shin-seiki » Mon May 21, 2007 6:12 pm

As some of you are probably aware, the topic of what many of us have come to regard as Asuka's apparent suicide attempt in the 'bathtub scene' in #24 has come up over on THAT BOARD, and it would seem to me that certain points have been raised over there, by some who remain unconvinced that this scene is, in fact, depicting an overt attempt at suicide on her part (i.e. cutting her wrist in the bath), which, IMO, require that we should take another look at the evidence in this case, given the fact that a lot of us on this board have come to just take it for granted that this is an actual suicide attempt.

So, here are the relevant images and dialog:
The original broadcast of this scene was semi-censored (probably to somewhat obscure her nudity):
[URL=http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1179599126054jm3.jpg]Image[/URL]

Here is the unobscured version of the above (from Renewal #24):
[URL=http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=24c015oabigey7.jpg]Image[/URL]

And here is the NPC version (#24'):
[URL=http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1179382943517kb1.jpg]Image[/URL]

So, what is that red substance in the bottom of the tub that has been added to the NPC version? Is it blood (note how the most prominent streak of it seems to originate from her right arm/wrist). Or, is it rust? If that's all it is, one might certainly wonder why they went to the trouble of modifiying the original with such a trivial detail.

Here's the dialog for the scene:
***
Asuka:
Synch rate, zero... Not qualified to be the Second Child...
There's no reason for me to exist anymore.
Because no one will look at me now. Not Dad, not Mom, not anyone.
There's no reason for me to live now.

MAN (OFF):
Asuka Langely Soryu, correct?

***
Her lines seem consistent with a suicide scene, tho the NERV guy's line and tone of voice does seem rather blase for an emergency situation.

Next time we see her she's in the hospital at NERV, looking rather glassy-eyed:
Image

(Note the IV inserted at her right elbow)

Now, once we get to the scene with Shinji at the start of #25', things get more than just a little ambiguous. While with this cut...
Image

...you can say "look, there's an incriminating bandage on her wrist!",

but with this one...
Image

...it is apparent that this is an IV (and on her left hand, btw).

Finally, there is this shot:
[URL=http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asukashinji059bp4.jpg]Image[/URL]

where it is apparent that there is no bandage or other sign of injury on her right wrist (which is where the "blood" seemed to be coming from in the NCP pic above).

So: where does this leave us? Was she really trying to snuff it in #24, or wasn't she?
Last edited by Shin-seiki on Tue May 22, 2007 4:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon May 21, 2007 6:29 pm

Didn't some time pass before Asuka was taken back to HQ? Perhaps her wounds healed by then?

Personally, I'm in the camp that she DID try to take a Roman Bath. The fact the "blood" was added in each later version, her clothes and dialogue (plus the flashbacks to her Mom's suicide--a nice parallel--and the Coffeepot Scene Take 1) all seem to imply she did indeed try to kill herself. Whether it was slashing both wrists (what I intially thought) or only one, I'm not certain now though.
But like I mentioned on Reichu's post on THAT BOARD, people are going to have their own POV on it, like everything else in Eva. Perhaps the scene was simply meant to be ambiguous in this regard??

In terms of the NERV guy, I'd say he was just doing his job/not exactly sympathetic at having to find a Children that decided to run away. *shrugs*

btw, Shin-Seiki, did that Yoshiyuki Tomino's viewpoint on Eva article I posted awhile ago help with your question? (You were asking something about that and an interview where a Gainax member more or less said Rei I was in zerogoki.)
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Postby BrikHaus » Mon May 21, 2007 6:34 pm

Yes this is quite strange. In this picture here:

Image

She has the IV going into her right arm.

But here:

[URL=http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asukashinji059bp4.jpg]Image[/URL]

It has switched sides.

Inconsistencies abound. I've personally been of the mind that she did try to off herself, but now I'm not so sure. Especially after having seen that her right wrist is completely undamaged in the EoE scene. What would be the purpose of switching all that around? Unless they either flipped the frames on one of them (unlikely) or they just weren't paying attention. I suppose the stuff like which bandages go where is minor really, but you would think they would have kept it consistent.
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Postby NAveryW » Mon May 21, 2007 7:23 pm

See, these sorts of inconsistencies are why we need Adrian Monk to personally review Rebuild before it's released.



Note that if that is indeed blood, then Rei/Asuka shippers are out of luck because Asuka's blood is red and not green and acidic, proving that she's not gay.


EDIT: Wait, the bed she's on in EoE is different from the one in episode 24. Thus, wouldn't it make sense that she would have to be hooked up again once she was moved? And, once they hooked her back up, why not to a different arm?

If all other fanwankery fails, the security camera could be aiming at a mirror by accident.
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Postby BobBQ » Mon May 21, 2007 7:58 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:In terms of the NERV guy, I'd say he was just doing his job/not exactly sympathetic at having to find a Children that decided to run away. *shrugs*

By this point in the series, it's been established that Section Two is not the most competent group of MiBs in the country. On top of that, they seem to have some kind of running grudge against the Tactical division.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon May 21, 2007 9:45 pm

NAveryW wrote:See, these sorts of inconsistencies are why we need Adrian Monk to personally review Rebuild before it's released.


He'd get too nervous at all that blood. ;)
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Postby NAveryW » Mon May 21, 2007 9:53 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:
NAveryW wrote:See, these sorts of inconsistencies are why we need Adrian Monk to personally review Rebuild before it's released.


He'd get too nervous at all that blood. ;)

No, no; he's actually quite a confident, manly person. God, I hate how unrealistic that show is sometimes...
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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue May 22, 2007 1:16 am

That Asuka would take a culturally common way out of her problem seems entirely obvious to me.

Also, don't forget:

Vanishing cigarette
Transparent hill
Plug-suit in ep#20
Nigouki's appearance in EoE
...

Bandage on the wrong wrist doesn't seem surprising when added to that list.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue May 22, 2007 6:12 am

You know, it took me a couple viewings before the obvious hit me and I was all "Oh! She is committing suicide!". I feel like a fool now but then again no one seems to make ANY comment of it later on.

Oh well. The obivous hit me the third time I saw the scene. Previously I just figured...well....she was naked in an abandoned building....being naked....

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue May 22, 2007 7:43 am

NAveryW wrote:
No, no; he's actually quite a confident, manly person. God, I hate how unrealistic that show is sometimes...
I think it's a little TOO realistic sometimes given some of the OCD people I've encountered. *shivers*

Interesting post shin-seiki. I don't know whether to chalk this up to continuity errors or something more. I think it just makes sense that Asuka tried to commit suicide. I mean, if that's not what she's there doing, then why her subdued state afterwards?
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Postby Jinroh » Tue May 22, 2007 9:01 am

What is the "NPC" version?

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue May 22, 2007 9:55 am

Jinroh wrote:What is the "NPC" version?
Director's Cut, though I don't know what NPC stands for...
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Postby NAveryW » Tue May 22, 2007 11:08 am

Mr. Tines wrote:Nigouki's appearance in EoE

How is it I've never heard of this one before? O_o

Where would she be in the movie aside from the rapidly flashing KST sequence, and in what context?
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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue May 22, 2007 11:33 am

Eva Yojimbo wrote:Director's Cut, though I don't know what NPC stands for...


New Production Cut

NAveryW wrote:
Mr. Tines wrote:Nigouki's appearance in EoE

How is it I've never heard of this one before? O_o

Where would she be in the movie aside from the rapidly flashing KST sequence, and in what context?


Nigouki? -- fighting the harpies, for one thing. See also Evil Gekijouban Kyoko-sama. They can't even get the number of torso plate sections consistent.

EDIT -- or were you thinking of Naoko?
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue May 22, 2007 2:13 pm

Sudden thought I had last night:

One "clue", imho, we get in 25'

Asuka, upon awakening in Nigoki: "ikiteru..." (I'm alive...). After this, Asuka goes into her Regression, whispering then screaming "shinu no wa iya" (I don't want to die) before discovering her "Mama"/Kyoko fighting ze evil Harpies.

The fact she says "I'm alive", to me implies she didn't plan on wanting that to be so.

Just a thought.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue May 22, 2007 2:21 pm

Hmmmm, insightful post SSD. I hadn't thought of that.
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Postby NAveryW » Tue May 22, 2007 2:55 pm

Or that she simply didn't expect to be so.


I'll have to ask Anno next time I meet him at the Single Swingin' Seniors Meeting (or S^3 Meeting, as they've come to be known.) God knows why he attends those, considering he's married and nobody else there speaks Japanese.
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Postby TriLink » Tue May 22, 2007 3:08 pm

Question: Is there water in that tub?

When you look at the NPC picture, the so called blood streaks at the bottom look way too linear for the blood to be immersed in water, because it would have dissolved into the water. Not to mention, Asuka's hand's should have a reddish tint to them from being in the water (which in my opinion, they don't).

So let's say there isn't any water in the tub. Look at where the blood streaks are located. The majority are on the left of the picture, granted, but you can also notice several prominent streaks between her legs, and even some less noticeable ones on the right. If it really is blood, why would it be all over the tub like that? I find it hard to believe someone in her condition would be wiggling around enough to get blood everywhere like that. And even if she was, shouldn't the blood be smeared, instead of in the relatively straight lines we see?

With all that being said, was Asuka suicidal? Yeah, probably. But when I saw her in that tub, I just figured it was her giving up on life , not really caring if she lived or died, just wanting to lie there all day. Or maybe this is all just optimisim on my part, I dunno.
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Postby Jinroh » Tue May 22, 2007 3:29 pm

I don't understand, renewal is newer than the director's cut episodes, right?
So the NPC wouldn't be the last "official" version...

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Tue May 22, 2007 3:55 pm

TriLink12 wrote:So let's say there isn't any water in the tub.

You can tell just by looking at the pic there is water in the tub.


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