I guess all forms of Wiki suck... :(

This is the place to start: Feel free to introduce yourself, have general conversations and casual discussions about all things Evangelion, including chit-chatty topics like "Sachiel is adorable" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?"

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:46 pm

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeonGenesisEvangelion

This one in particular seems to have several messed up things about it:
ie Anno depressed before making EVA because some of his family members were killed(! I've never heard THAT before), and in general contains screwy info that most Net sites have by not properly citing sources. ie: "nothing develops between Shinji & Asuka after the kiss". Um, what about the 22' mind-rape scene and EoE P3II scene? Yeah, it's negative, but it's development!


Also, according to Leakypedia:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asuka_Langley_Soryu#Asuka.27s_interactions_with_Shinji[/url] wrote:In The End of Evangelion, Asuka and Shinji's relationship comes catastrophically to the forefront. Almost surprisingly, her influence on Shinji in the final instance of Instrumentality during Third Impact is more important than Shinji's own mother's, whose absence had until then been his primary psychological trauma, along with the emotional absence of his father, Gendo Ikari. At the start of the movie, Shinji is shown with Asuka in her hospital room, begging her for help and trying to rouse her from unconsciousness. He accidentally pulls loose her vital sign monitors, exposing her breasts; he masturbates to this sight, but is horrified and disgusted with himself for doing so. His guilt and increased self-loathing add to his previous traumas and cause him to become so uncaring of his own existence that he does not attempt to resist when soldiers try to kill him. This forces Misato to save him and to try to rouse him from this state so that he can escape the GeoFront in Unit 01. As Instrumentality begins, Shinji enters a mental fugue state in which he and Asuka are back in Misato's apartment. Again, he begs Asuka for help, claiming to be afraid of Misato and Rei, while also revealing his true feelings for Asuka ("I want to stay with you, Asuka, and be with you... forever.") Asuka denies his pleas, attacking (in her view) the selfish nature of his plea. Shinji loses control and strangles her. The depiction of Asuka in this scene is very likely Shinji's perception of her, rather than Asuka herself.

However, in the film's finale, entitled "ONE MORE FINAL: I need you," as Shinji learns to accept himself and embraces humanity in spite of the pain that inevitably comes from human interaction, essentially stopping Third Impact, he appears on a beach with none other than Asuka. He tries to strangle her again (this time in person as opposed to just within his mind). She does not physically resist him, but instead lifts her hand to stroke his face - incidentally, as Yui had done just moments before. At this he collapses, weeping, onto her chest, and as the film ends she finally utters her (in)famously ambiguous line, "気持ち悪い。" ("Kimochi warui", translated into English in the dub as "How disgusting", and as "I feel sick" in the subtitles). The exact meaning of the symbolism in this scene, as well as the intended meaning of Asuka's final words, are unclear and heavily debated. As the series ends there, the specifics of her subsequent life are left up to the audience. One theory is that she and Shinji assume the roles of the new Eve and Adam, but this is not necessarily true, since it is revealed earlier that all of humanity has the chance to return to physical form if they choose to do so. The box art for the DVD release of The End of Evangelion depicts Shinji and Asuka, side by side, looking out over the ruins of their world. It is implied that this occurs very soon after the final scene.

One point of debate regarding the final scene is whether or not Asuka is actually Asuka, as she is drawn with brown eyes rather than blue, and her left eye and right arm are bandaged, a mirror image of the bandages that Rei had when Shinji first met her. This has led some to argue that the Asuka that is with Shinji is an amalgam of Asuka, Rei, and Misato. Others believe that these resemblances are merely figurative or coincidental, since souls can't combine now that the Third Impact has ended. This argument posits that Asuka's eyes are still blue, only appearing brown like Misato's because of the notably red lighting of the environment, and that the bandages simply coincide with the injuries she suffered while battling the mass produced Evas. This argument is backed up by color analysis of the cel of that scene, which was later published as a card.



P3II scene= not really Asuka, but Shinji's preception of her. Um, what? O_o Now I admit that idea did cross my mind, as something about Asuka in that scene does seem to have her come off as being colder than usual, but isn't it just that BOTH Shinji & Asuka finally snapped, thus reacting the way they did to each other? Either way, what about THIS?

Episode 25 wrote:Asuka: Where am I?

Shinji: This is the me that exists in your mind, Asuka.

Asuka: Which means, it's also the me that exists in your mind, right?


And is that part about Kimochi Warui translated as "I feel sick" in Mangle's subs true? I only saw their translation once, so I don't remember.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:12 pm

Wiki is subject to various POVs it's best for things like hard facts. Mangle translated "Kimochi warui" as "How disgusting"
Last edited by Anonymous_Evafan on Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:21 pm

*HEADDESK*

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Postby MaggotMaster » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:48 pm

THIS IS HOW YOU FIX WIKIPEDIA:
-Whine less
-Edit MOAR

I have been going around the article for the Angels and for the Evas removing stupid original research and unsourced claims, trying to make the articles better, and adding random shit from the CI.
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Postby Shin-seiki » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:12 pm

If the Asuka in the P3II scenes is merely Shinji's "perception" of Asuka, why did Anno go to the trouble of adding scenes to Death, and DC eps 22' and 24', that serve to explicate her motivations and behavior in those EoE scenes? So, Shinji is is imagining a "perceived Asuka" that just happens to behave exactly like the real Asuka would if that really was her, huh? I think Occam's Razor has a readily apparent application here...
Last edited by Shin-seiki on Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:17 pm

MaggotMaster wrote:THIS IS HOW YOU FIX WIKIPEDIA:
-Whine less
-Edit MOAR

QFT.

And then take it to discussion if people revert.

And then whine if somebody with Supreme Executive Power ends up being a stupid dick about something.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:18 pm

But I'm lazy
Oh, but God forbid any of these theories have any validity! After all, we are just brainwashing innocent people with Reichu's fanclub propaganda!--Trigger's Elysium sarcasm for the masses!

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Postby MaggotMaster » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:22 pm

Reichu wrote:And then whine if somebody with Supreme Executive Power ends up being a stupid dick about something.


THAT is my actual problem with Wikipedia, you have no idea how much I despise the administrators and their extremely biased use of Wikipedia policies and extreme faggotry.

That is why I generally edit articles on not-so-well-known subjects because it's unlikely one of the faggot Wikipedia admins is going to get involved in a discussion about say, Evangelion.

Below is a link telling the story of probably the biggest power abuse in Wikipedia in years:
http://www.trendpediawiki.com/MONGO_DID_WTC
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:21 pm

I would edit articles there if it wouldn't be for the fact that 1) People will probably just get rid of what I changed 2) Admins being stupid, as that trendpedia site shows (Thanks for the link, Maggot Master)

In example, this: http://www.trendpediawiki.com/Wikipedia#The_typical_editing_process
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Postby Ornette » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:26 pm

MaggotMaster wrote:
Reichu wrote:And then whine if somebody with Supreme Executive Power ends up being a stupid dick about something.


THAT is my actual problem with Wikipedia, you have no idea how much I despise the administrators and their extremely biased use of Wikipedia policies and extreme faggotry.

That's because they HAVE to. It's not like any of the arbtitrators really care who's soul is in Eva-00, the subject of NGE in general spawns ridiculous amounts of debates. I mean, just look at this forum, with the years of discussions, there are still people who believe Asuka didn't try to commit suicide, Naoko's still in Eva-00, Asuka/Misato wasn't really part of pre-instrumentality. The whole mediation/3rd parties/survey that wikipedia suggests just isn't enough for 2 people to come to terms about something when not even years of discussion on EMF is enough.

That is why I generally edit articles on not-so-well-known subjects because it's unlikely one of the faggot Wikipedia admins is going to get involved in a discussion about say, Evangelion.

I stick to only changes where I can site a source, even if it's an opinion or interpretation. There was this debate about if the Shanghai International Speedway's shape was interntional or coincidental. The original source sited was an interview with the track's designer stating that it's similarities with the character "Shan" was coincidental. While I was there I spoke with some of the officials at the track and they told me it was intentional. So who's right? I started discussion, because it isn't a subject like Eva. So far, no hate in my User:talk.

It's unfortunate that the subject of Eva is so dependent on interpretation, and its fans are often on the vehement side of the spectrum. I think at one point there was a general disclaimer that said a lot of these pages involve some interpretation, but it was removed.

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Postby MaggotMaster » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:45 pm

Ornette wrote:
MaggotMaster wrote:
Reichu wrote:And then whine if somebody with Supreme Executive Power ends up being a stupid dick about something.


THAT is my actual problem with Wikipedia, you have no idea how much I despise the administrators and their extremely biased use of Wikipedia policies and extreme faggotry.

That's because they HAVE to.


Yeah, that seriously justifies MONGO's abuse of power (including banning users with less than 100 edits for no reason), forcing the deletion of the fine article on Encyclopedia Dramatica, the banning of User Timecop by idiotic admins just because he's the leader of the GNAA (nevermind the fact he's contributed a shitload to Wikipedia), deleting the GNAA article when the AfD had been up for just 2 days (policies dictate a AfD needs to be up for at least 5 days before any decision is taken) after 17 unsuccesful nominations, etc etc etc
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Postby Ornette » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:15 pm

MaggotMaster wrote:
Ornette wrote:
MaggotMaster wrote:
Reichu wrote:And then whine if somebody with Supreme Executive Power ends up being a stupid dick about something.


THAT is my actual problem with Wikipedia, you have no idea how much I despise the administrators and their extremely biased use of Wikipedia policies and extreme faggotry.

That's because they HAVE to.


Yeah, that seriously justifies MONGO's abuse of power (including banning users with less than 100 edits for no reason), forcing the deletion of the fine article on Encyclopedia Dramatica, the banning of User Timecop by idiotic admins just because he's the leader of the GNAA (nevermind the fact he's contributed a shitload to Wikipedia), deleting the GNAA article when the AfD had been up for just 2 days (policies dictate a AfD needs to be up for at least 5 days before any decision is taken) after 17 unsuccesful nominations, etc etc etc

Of course not, I'm talking about wikipedia, specifically in the line of the wikipedia "Asuka's interactions with Shinji" quote -> problem with wikipedia's policy -> problem with discussion of eva within wikipedia's suggested framework of resolutions.


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