How is it to be taken

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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How is it to be taken

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Postby Cesternino53 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:15 am

Okay, first of all I'm new here. This is obviously the best Eva source on the net so it's great to be here.

My question is this: These new movies are certainly something to be excited about. If they end up being continuations, obviously any information gleaned can be applied to the original series. However, if they are retellings/recaps can we really use the information to understand the original series better or should we treat these movies as something entirely new?

If you don't get what I mean, take the manga. It is it's own seperate story, and I think we all agree that anything learned there can only be applied to that story.

Personally, I believe that if the story is not a new chapter to the saga (not a continuation, which I would perhaps like better) we should treat it as a seperate entity. So essentially we would have three "main" Eva stories; the original, the manga, and this.

Again, great to be here.

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Postby Kaysow » Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:46 am

That's the excuse people are using, trying to write off The Compilation of Final Fantasy VII as an unimposing spinoff. But I don't think it matters what kind of entity we classify it as; should their attempt at reimagining Eva fail miserably (which is a high probability), then ALL of Eva turns to shit.
On the bright side tho; having no expectations helps. You can only either sink into further resignation or be pleasantly blown away.

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Postby AchtungAffen » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:08 pm

I believe there's a canonical clause. If Rebuild shows things which couldn't have happened in Eva original (much as what happens with Kaworu in the manga, shows up when during the TV series would have been impossible), then it's going to be EIAO (Eva in Appearance Only). Alternate Universe or whatever, but never canon.

I really don't have any faith in Gainax anymore. Been watching too much animé, new and old, Gainax and other, and the trends are worrysome. Loli princesses doing magical girl transformations to beat the Angels? ...Do not want... but hell, that's what Gainax has been giving us almost since after FLCL. You say Anno, Sadamoto... can't be that bad. I say, they're both pricks (at least they seem so in the interviews). And like the Pistols, they're coming back for your money. Those are my expectations, hope they don't come true.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:47 pm

AchtungAffen wrote:Loli princesses doing magical girl transformations to beat the Angels?


Maybe not princesses, but perhaps something like this would be fun...

Shinji Ikari stared at the payphone handset. Like all the others, this one was useless, all lines unavailable. Out of habit, he hung it back on the hook, and grabbed his things.

Stepping out of the booth, the distant rumblings were louder, closer than they had been when he had got off the train. He checked the postcard that gave the very vague instructions, scrawled around the seriously off-duty photo of the woman who should have been there to meet him, then consulted his watch.

Well, there was nothing more to do. He had seen the signs at the station for the public shelters. Might just as well head back and wait this all out, whatever "this" was. He looked down the silent, deserted street to check the signs.

And there, some way away, in the middle of the road, a girl, looking younger than him, in what looked like a rather formal school uniform, a white jacket, and calf length white skirt.

The fluttering of a flock of pigeons from the power lines, disturbed by the ever closer rumbles, distracted him for an instant; and when he looked again, she had gone.

---------------------------------

It had started the night before, in a strange dream of the sea at night, and strange fires both above and beneath the waves. A monstrous presence, a desperate attempt to contain it, then wounded headlong flight into darkess. There had been an odd atmosphere about the dream that had left Nanoha Takamachi distracted all morning, while she had been helping around her family's coffee shop by the railway station.

An errand to run across town had been a welcome break, out in the fresh air, under a sky that gave at least occasional glimpses of sun; and then, on the way back, the alert sirens had sounded.

She paused a moment, and then made her decision. She would hurry back, to the shelter near the coffee shop, rather than have everyone worry about her while she took refuge in a shelter out here. There was a short-cut through the park that would get her close to her destination, through an overgrown area of trees.

Under their crowding branches, the air was still and opressive, the only sound her feet on the gravel path, and there was a sense of something lurking, but she shook that off as a silly thing for littler girls than herself. Then a feeling like she had walked into something, that brought her up short as if she had. Was there something?

She looked around. Nothing. Just the pounding of her heart. She was about to move, when the feeling came again. Something about a small, almost overgrown path off to the left, ahead.

"Can you hear me? Can you help me?"

Not a voice in her ears, but in her head. Disorientation swept her, until she realised what it was about this place. It was just like where her dream had ended.

Trotting now, she headed down the side path.

"Help me!"

The not-voice came again, stronger. And there, in a wider piece of the path, in a patch of sunlight, there was an animal curled. Not knowing why, she stopped, and knelt down beside it. A bright little face looked up at her, and climbed wearily into her hands. Long and creamy coloured, it looked like a ferret, and one with a red bauble on its collar.

"Can you hear my voice?"

It was clearly the animal talking into her head, and not her ears.

"You who have heard me, please lend me your strength," it asked, "The time left, the danger, it may already be too late."

As if to emphasise that, the sound of distant rumbling came distinct on a rush of breeze, and in the gap between the trees, in the distance, a flight of aerodynes, retreating steadily before a giant thing.

"What's going on? What is that thing?"

Nanoha began to hurry back down the path, intent on home and safety.

"You have the proper talent for this. Will you lend me your strength?"

"Talent?"

"I have come here from another world in search of something; but I don't think I shall be able to this all just by myself. That's why... If anyone with the proper talent could find it in themselves to assist me, I shall repay you, I promise. I want you to use the power I carry with me. "

The ferret held up its head, presenting the jewel at its throat.

"Use this magical power."

"Magic?"

The sounds of missiles and artillery, and the rumbling of giant footsteps were getting uncomfortably close.

"I promise to repay you, so please?"

"This isn't really the time to be talking about that, is it? What am I supposed to do."

"Take this device, hold it, close your eyes, and repeat after me..."

She grasped the red stone, which had come free of the collar. It was surprisingly warm to the touch. She clasped it in her left hand, while keeping the ferret in the crook of her right arm.

"I who have accepted this mission...upon the ancient contract, command you to release your power..."

The stone seemed to pulse in her hand, and even though her fist was closed about it, and her eyes were shut, there was the feeling of light shining from it.

"Wind in the sky,... stars in the heavens,..."

Redness was swallowing the universe, and the stone pulsed through it like the heart of the world.

"And a resolute heart... beats within my breast!"

The world was dissolving around her, but the mantra seemed unstoppable.

"This magic in my hand! Raging Heart, Set Up!"

The cosmos held its breath, it seemed.

"Stand by. Ready. Set up."

The Raging Heart spoke, and light flowed from her hand into the sky.

"Focus, and picture the tools you need in your mind. The conduit for your magic, the form of a magical staff, and a strong armour, to protect your body."

But her imagination was blank.

"There's no way you can expect me do do that, just like this!" she protested. But if she had to, then she had to,

She had seen magical girls on the TV. She knew roughly how a staff should look. And as for an outfit, well, perhaps something like her formal school uniform. That would have to do for the moment.

She felt herself falling into the gem as if the world was turned inside out around her, and then back again. The fountain of light that poured from her hand became solid, a magical staff, carrying the Raging Heart in its crook; and her clothes unwove and reconstituted themselves around her, more substantial and yet more comfortable than before.

"It's a success!"

"Uh..." She paused, uncertain, looking down at herself. "What's with this outfit?"

And a strange bird-like head loomed over her.

She took a step back, raising the staff.

A great green-black hand was reaching down for her; and light was gathering in its palm.

She closed her eyes, and held the staff up to ward it away.

"Protection."

Light flared through her closed eyelids, and there was a roaring noise, sounding, as it felt, like she was holding an umbrella up against a waterfall.

It went on and on, until a series of detonations rang out from high above. She opened one eye, cautiously, to see the giant had turned its attention to the planes that were buzzing about it, and firing their missiles.

The middle of the town didn't seem like a good place to be doing this sort of thing — either what she was doing, or what the Self-Defense Forces were doing. Even as she watched a plane was struck by a lance of light from the creature's hand, and began to tumble from the sky, looking like it would impact somewhere near the station.

"Flash Move."

The scenery blurred around her as she took just one step, and then she halted, almost by the station. The stricken plane was heading for one of the office blocks. And there was a boy, standing on the pavement opposite, just looking at her; not noticing what was happening, not aware of the imminent impact over his head.

---------------------------------

Shinji became aware of a growing roaring above, and then as he looked up, an explosion of impact as a downed plane struck near the top of the building he was standing near, sending slabs of glass and concrete tumbling. Useless instinct drove him to hide his head under his arms, as he waited for the worst.

"Wide Area Protection."

A mechanical voice, like the announcer on the train, but speaking English; and the sound like a landslide, punctuated with the shattering of glass, but nothing was actually falling on him. Peering between his forearms, he saw the wreckage and rubble sliding off a surface marked by a slowly rotating ring of cherry-pink light.

"This … isn't a … safe … place …, senpai."

The girl he had just seen was now standing behind him, holding a crook staff that was alive with more of the pink light, and speaking between gasps for breath.

//Continues...
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Postby Kaysow » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:11 pm

Sorry, I just never read fanfiction on principle.

@AchtungAffen;
What's that word again? Re........

*Checks it up on wikipedia*

Can't find it. Re-something, I hear it was first used in Star Trek. Deviating from continuity, that sorta thing? Someone probably know this, I learned of it at the same time as fanwanking.

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Postby Ornette » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:12 pm

Kaysow wrote:Sorry, I just never read fanfiction on principle.

@AchtungAffen;
What's that word again? Re........

*Checks it up on wikipedia*

Can't find it. Re-something, I hear it was first used in Star Trek. Deviating from continuity, that sorta thing? Someone probably know this, I learned of it at the same time as fanwanking.

retconning?

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Postby MaggotMaster » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:15 pm

I love retcons because they generally cause more continuity errors, LOL.
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Postby Kaysow » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:00 pm

Yeah, that's it. It's total bullshit. Sephiroth was TOSSED into Lifestream by Cloud, he didn't fucking jump in willingly.

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Postby AuthenticM » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:25 pm

Kaysow wrote:Yeah, that's it. It's total bullshit. Sephiroth was TOSSED into Lifestream by Cloud, he didn't fucking jump in willingly.

Did Advent Children state that he jumped in of his own will? I don't recall hearing anything of the sort. Cloud and Sephiroth don't even talk of their past confrontation.

Cloud tossed Sephiroth in the lifestream. True. But does that mean Sephiroth has ultimately failed for good? No. If he can think of another plan, he'll put it to execution. That's what we see in Advent Children. Between the end of FFVII and the beginning of Advent, while Sephiroth was 'roaming' the Lifestream, he thought of another plan: "What if I contaminated the Lifestream in order to control Terra from within her? I could then roam the universe until I find the perfect planet onwhich to build a shining paradise." That's the gist of it. There was no retcon at all in Advent.

The only 'retconning' I can think of, is that they integrated Vincent and Yuffie as main characters, when in the game they were optional characters. But I didn't understand why they put them optional in the first place.
In my case, I refuse to go easy on the ignorant, regardless of degree. Hitler was ignorant. Joshua C. Whatshisface is ignorant. To me, they're in the same category of ignorant and stupid people who should have been left in some isolated corner of the world where they couldn't bother anyone. --The Eva Monkey

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Postby The Bastard King » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:46 pm

AuthenticM wrote:
Kaysow wrote:Yeah, that's it. It's total bullshit. Sephiroth was TOSSED into Lifestream by Cloud, he didn't fucking jump in willingly.

Did Advent Children state that he jumped in of his own will? I don't recall hearing anything of the sort. Cloud and Sephiroth don't even talk of their past confrontation.

He was making a reference to the "Last Order" segment, which does a bit of a job with the Nibelheim story. Cloud throws Sephy against a wall, then he decides to jump in for God knows what reason when Cloud is clearly at the disadvantage (aka sword in stomache).
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Postby Kaysow » Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:13 am

That's it, yes. Last Order, a cel-animated OVA that came as a bonus with the mandatory-overpriced-first-edition in Japan.

Also, keeping true to the ending of the game; mankind shouldn't even exist anymore. That IS up for discussion, of course.

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Postby AuthenticM » Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:47 am

The Bastard King wrote:He was making a reference to the "Last Order" segment, which does a bit of a job with the Nibelheim story. Cloud throws Sephy against a wall, then he decides to jump in for God knows what reason when Cloud is clearly at the disadvantage (aka sword in stomache).

That's right. I've seen that, but I had totaly forgotten about it. I wonder why they've changed that. In any case, we'll probably see the whole picture in Crisis Core; so Last Order won't be able to be considered canon, as CC has a stronger say than it.
In my case, I refuse to go easy on the ignorant, regardless of degree. Hitler was ignorant. Joshua C. Whatshisface is ignorant. To me, they're in the same category of ignorant and stupid people who should have been left in some isolated corner of the world where they couldn't bother anyone. --The Eva Monkey

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Postby Kaysow » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:15 am

I dunno what's going on with Crisis Core, but the people over at FFWA (I was banned permanently, but that was 5 years ago and I'm re-registered) who have read the script or something are telling us to be prepared for some sick retconning.

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Postby AuthenticM » Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:08 pm

Kaysow wrote:I dunno what's going on with Crisis Core, but the people over at FFWA (I was banned permanently, but that was 5 years ago and I'm re-registered) who have read the script or something are telling us to be prepared for some sick retconning.

It can't be all that bad, mind you. They are going to delve deeper into Zack and Aerith's relationship, which is nice. And since Crisis Core is a full-fledged game out of some tiny bits of information from the original game, everything we'll see (new or retconned) will have a much better written script and will be polished a lot more than what we've been 'presented' in VII. That's why I have high expectations for this game.
In my case, I refuse to go easy on the ignorant, regardless of degree. Hitler was ignorant. Joshua C. Whatshisface is ignorant. To me, they're in the same category of ignorant and stupid people who should have been left in some isolated corner of the world where they couldn't bother anyone. --The Eva Monkey

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:02 am

Can we get back to Rebuild, and off the Final Fantasy side-track.

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Postby BobBQ » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:11 am

How is it to be taken?

In my case, with a grain of salt and a large glass of water.

Seems to be the best way to look at it is as NGE and Rebuild being different variants of the same original in the way that, say, DOOM and Doom 3 are variants on a theme.

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Postby master0rolando » Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:27 am

well if Hideaki is directing them...then i think that automatically makes them canon

also hes said that hes doing this cuz new technology is allowing him to make Eva "the way it was meant to be"...

so i think that this would mean that the movie's canonness trumps that of the original show doesnt it?

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Postby AuthenticM » Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:14 am

master0rolando wrote:well if Hideaki is directing them...then i think that automatically makes them canon

also hes said that hes doing this cuz new technology is allowing him to make Eva "the way it was meant to be"...

That's what gets me excited about Rebuild. Anno finally has the technology and the budget to do things as he had envisionned them. That's why I think it'll rock.
In my case, I refuse to go easy on the ignorant, regardless of degree. Hitler was ignorant. Joshua C. Whatshisface is ignorant. To me, they're in the same category of ignorant and stupid people who should have been left in some isolated corner of the world where they couldn't bother anyone. --The Eva Monkey

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Postby Szmitten » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:01 pm

How is it to be taken


Orally.

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Postby Trigger's Elysium » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:30 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:Can we get back to Rebuild, and off the Final Fantasy side-track.

Thank you.


I find that ironic, as you posted a random Nanoha x Eva crossover fic...

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