Mari's vow to Shinji

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Mari's vow to Shinji

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Postby wiser3754 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:35 pm

In the preview for 3.0 + 1.0 Mari makes a vow to Shinji to find him wherever he is after a short while. This is stated after Mari reflects on Wille's "win" in Paris with Unit 02 being rebuilt and Unit 08 to achieve superposition compatibilty.

Anyone want to speculate that Mari intends to collect Shinji on her own and put him somwhere else despite Wille's plans to deal with him? Asuka does give Mari the nickname "networking four eyes" in certain translations and we never found out who or what Mari really works for.
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Postby Melkor » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:01 pm

It's not just that. Mari standing there and saying that she is going find Shinji also kind of mirrors the scene at the beginning of 3.0 where Kaworu is watching Unit-01 falling back to Earth and says that has been waiting for Shinji. Could this parallel be intentional? The fact that she would mention Shinji first, who she barely knows, over Asuka, her fellow comrade from Willie, seems really strange to me. It really gives me Kaworu vibes. Perhaps Mari will be someone who will serve an important role in Shinji journey for this movie, much like Kaworu did in the previous movie.
Last edited by Melkor on Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mari's vow to Shinji

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Postby Reichu » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:07 pm

Asuka's nickname "konemegane" doesn't mean Mari is working for anyone. It implies she got "in" through her connections (KONEkushon = connection).

Mari is implied to share a past with Shinji at the Artificial Evolution Laboratory in Hakone. It's just that, unlike him, she managed to escape getting her memories wiped. So she remembers their childhood together, and he doesn't. Read this post for more details, though the whole first page of the thread is required for full context.

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Re: Mari's vow to Shinji

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Postby Zoop » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:26 am

Mari's remark about Shinji's smell and later "because he smells different".
Does she mean he smells different from others?
Or smells different from before (implying some change with Shinji since she last met him, even if that change is just "started piloting eva")?
Does the interpretation of the translation shed any light on this?

First I thought it was just the smell of LCL she liked, but I'm guessing there might be more to it.

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Re: Mari's vow to Shinji

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Postby Reichu » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:59 am

I took a look at her lines, and... I'm still not entirely sure what she's talking about; I get the feeling it's meant to be mysterious. She says something about him being a guy whose actions serve the interests... of himself? of some unspecified, albeit implied, third party? Both? And then "Guess it IS because he smells different." Best possible guess I can make about this is that she's talking about Shinji triggering Eva-01 (which is something that Gendo wants, and we later learn that Mari knows much more about Gendo than she's let on); she realizes that Shinji's weird "smell" is due to piloting one of the Adams, which are fundamentally different from the normal Evas. That's all I got, though...

Mari's lines, for reference: 「成る程、都合ヤツね。やっぱり匂いが違うからかなぁ…」

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Re: Mari's vow to Shinji

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Postby Zoop » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:17 am

The way you worded this, combined with your Cycle theories, maybe he's serving the interest of his former self.
Like the way Shinji is acting is nothing new to Mari, he was like that before.

"The more you act like yourself, the more you play in to seele's/gendo's hands" is what I kind of get from that line. How that would be a cause or effect from the smell, still got no clue.

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Postby Settie » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:11 pm

I think it just means that Mari is able to look at Shinji in an objective fashion. The way i see it Misato sees him as a reminder of the mistakes of the past, Asuka is a bundle of conflicting emotions regarding Shinji, the rest of Willie at large distrust him. Mari on the other hand is able to see him for what he his, a lost and confused soul in a world that doesn't take kindly to such things. I mean she's had 14 years to learn of him and now having first hand experience of his actions, i think she would see him as someone that needs guidance not scorn.

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Re: Mari's vow to Shinji

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Postby Melkor » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:56 pm

View Original PostSettie wrote:I think it just means that Mari is able to look at Shinji in an objective fashion. The way i see it Misato sees him as a reminder of the mistakes of the past, Asuka is a bundle of conflicting emotions regarding Shinji, the rest of Willie at large distrust him. Mari on the other hand is able to see him for what he his, a lost and confused soul in a world that doesn't take kindly to such things. I mean she's had 14 years to learn of him and now having first hand experience of his actions, i think she would see him as someone that needs guidance not scorn.


Mari might turn out to be one of the few people that can actually help Shinji, which is why I think that scene of her saying she will find him at the end of the preview is intentionally meant to mirror the scene of Kaworu saying he has been waiting for Shinji at the beginning of 3.0. Unlike the other remaining Eva pilots, Mari isn't cold and emotionless like Rei, or mean and confrontational like Asuka, so she would the easiest for Shinji to approach. Mari was the person who found Shinji during the 10th Angels attack and has some idea of what his mental state was like, so she might be able to empathize with him. Something I rarely see anyone bring up is how Near Third Impact is also partially kind of Mari's fault. If she had not tried so hard to motivate Shinji to get back into Unit-01 and given him the push that he needed, then none of that would have even happened. If Shinji had just stayed put and done nothing, Kaworu would have eventually showed up anyway in Mark.06 and taken out the 10th Angel. Mari might feel some degree of guilt towards her involvement in unintentionally helping Shinji to cause Near Third Impact, knowing that she's responsible for enabling him to do what he did. Sharing the blame for causing Near Third Impact is something that could help them to bond with each other. It's a secret that only the two of them would know.

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Re: Mari's vow to Shinji

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Postby Cookie H Wilson » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:24 pm

View Original PostMelkor wrote:Something I rarely see anyone bring up is how Near Third Impact is also partially kind of Mari's fault. If she had not tried so hard to motivate Shinji to get back into Unit-01 and given him the push that he needed, then none of that would have even happened.


I've always liked Mari attitude a lot and I agree with you about the personality trait & how this could help Shinji's recovery.
But regarding the fact that Mari motivated Shinji, I don't really agree on that. She actually said to run.
The thing that moved Shinji to go back into Unit 01 was the blood stain on the hand (blood pool pouring from unit 08) as a clear remainder of Eva 1.11 where the same thing happens at the Eva cage, just that in that case the blood was Rei's. Thats how I see things moved into Shinji's mind.
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Re: Mari's vow to Shinji

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:17 pm

View Original PostCookie H Wilson wrote:regarding the fact that Mari motivated Shinji, I don't really agree on that. She actually said to run.

I see that as being what motivates him not to, myself.
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Postby Settie » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:10 pm

Bit off topic but i didn't think Mari is responsible for what Shinji did. I think it shows two ways Shinji reacts to things happening in his life. N3I is related back to the 9th angel incident, In that one Shinji refused to do anything and so he lost any and all agency in the outcome. In N3I he did the opposite and pushed too far for an outcome that was already beyond his ability to change. It was two extremes that both ended in failure.

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Postby Melkor » Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:32 pm

View Original PostSettie wrote:Bit off topic but i didn't think Mari is responsible for what Shinji did. I think it shows two ways Shinji reacts to things happening in his life. N3I is related back to the 9th angel incident, In that one Shinji refused to do anything and so he lost any and all agency in the outcome. In N3I he did the opposite and pushed too far for an outcome that was already beyond his ability to change. It was two extremes that both ended in failure.


That may be so, but she still definitely enabled him. If she had just let Shinji be instead of meddling and forcing him to leave the bunker when he didn't want to, none of that would have happened. She probably thought she was helping by making Shinji leave the bunker, but it ended up causing more harm than good.

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Re: Mari's vow to Shinji

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Postby Joseki » Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:01 pm

There is a very long list of people that pressured/enabled Shinji into triggering N3I. Honestly it's harder to find someone who wasn't at least partially responsible.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:11 pm

View Original PostMelkor wrote:That may be so, but she still definitely enabled him. If she had just let Shinji be instead of meddling and forcing him to leave the bunker when he didn't want to, none of that would have happened. She probably thought she was helping by making Shinji leave the bunker, but it ended up causing more harm than good.

By that logic even Misato was a Near 3rd Impact “enabler,” and she wound up being a captain (perhaps the captain) in Wille’s Anti-Impact Strategy. For a lot of people at the time “Get in the fucking robot Shinji” meant “Save us from another Impact.” We don’t know to what extent Mari knew about Gendo-kun’s plotting and scheming at the end of 2.22, so it’s best to not accuse her of anything.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:17 am

A lot of people are partially to blame for N3I and N4I, but people tend to forget that the true bad guys behind this all who actually want the destruction of humanity are Gendo and Seele. (Or ascension from their perspective)
Shinji, the guy who triggers these impacts is not completely innocent in all of this, but he's ultimately a victim too who didn't want any of this.
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Postby wiser3754 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:30 am

Has anyone come to the idea that the red earth is the fault of Lilith and the 12th Angel and not Shinji? Asuka is surprised that the twelfth angel is still alive and attempts to stop Third Impact from starting up again by killing it. Both Mari and Asuka must not have known that fact (like the 13 angel) before hand and Mari sees Shinji as a scapegoat that humanity wants to ignorantly punish.

Her hope that he "waits a little longer" or "just hold on" before she gets to him is also probably fear that he'll kill himself before the real "truth" is explained to him.
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Postby Reichu » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:17 am

wiser3754: "Has anyone"? No serious theory-crafter is gonna say "Shinji did it" and walk off. We were talking in quite some depth about what Third Impact actually was (meaning, a clusterfuck event with Lilith, the 12th, and Mark.06 at the center) on the forum back in yon days of fan-translated dialogue from bootleg recorded movie audio. Kaworu for all his inconsistencies is open about Central Dogma being the epicenter of 3I, as well. That is to say, welcome to the gigantic discussion threads from seven years ago. :wink:

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Postby Settie » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:12 am

^ I've always found it odd just how prevalent the mindset of "Shinji destroyed the world" is amongst the general eva fandom. I mean it's not like the movie was subtle about it, it's one of the few things the movie hits you with head on. From the dialog to the visuals, "something big" happened between 2.0 and 3.0 and yet, from reddit to youtube videos and comments, the same thing pops up over and over again, the idea that Shinji is responsible for it all. I guess Kaworu was effective on a meta level as well.

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Postby wiser3754 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:53 am

View Original PostSettie wrote:^ I've always found it odd just how prevalent the mindset of "Shinji destroyed the world" is amongst the general eva fandom. I mean it's not like the movie was subtle about it, it's one of the few things the movie hits you with head on. From the dialog to the visuals, "something big" happened between 2.0 and 3.0 and yet, from reddit to youtube videos and comments, the same thing pops up over and over again, the idea that Shinji is responsible for it all.


That's probably what's fuelling Mari's drive to find Shinji regardless of where he is. She and most likely Asuka know the real "truth" after Shinji pulled out the spears of the origins of the red earth and won't let him die in pity, gulit and grief for something he didn't do.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:58 pm

View Original PostSettie wrote:^ I've always found it odd just how prevalent the mindset of "Shinji destroyed the world" is amongst the general eva fandom. I mean it's not like the movie was subtle about it, it's one of the few things the movie hits you with head on. From the dialog to the visuals, "something big" happened between 2.0 and 3.0 and yet, from reddit to youtube videos and comments, the same thing pops up over and over again, the idea that Shinji is responsible for it all. I guess Kaworu was effective on a meta level as well.

Yeah, but here we've a brilliant case of playing with what the characters tells us vs the story tells us with its images. And most of the people who saw 3.0 probably didn't had the two previous movies fresh in their memories nor bothered to see it more than once, so they'll be hard pressed to notice the several details that clues that another Impact happened between the end of 2.0 and the beginning of 3.0.
I can only speak for myself, but even I took two viewings and interacting in this forum before noticing that there's a 11th Angel missing, that Kaworu's omitting a lot of information from Shinji, that the presence of Mark.06's wreck can only mean that Tokyo-3 couldn't had been coreified by Shinji's stunt, and that in fine it's impossible that he was the one that let the world in the state we see it. Which says a lot about Anno's talent to manipulate his audience, since as you said, a lot of people (aka those who aren't Eva fanatics or don't like to overanalyze everything they look) still believes that Shinji is the responsible for all this.
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