How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby scorpew » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:10 pm

It's known that Lilith's spear was lost during the 1st impact because of the Black Moon crash, but that is strange because probably the First Ancestral Race knew that throwing moons to planets will cause big crashes, and they don't want to run the risks of uncontrollable gods appearing (I heard that this is the motivation to the own creation of the Spear, avoid entities to have immortality and intelligence).

However, the White Moon didn't cause any so called "impact", and I don't really understand how a (probably) "13.75 km in diameter" object can land on the Earth without provoking any crash.

As told:
and it is implied that Adam's Spear -- as the only one remaining in proximity to a Seed, or on the planet at all -- took the initiative to subdue its own counterpart Seed.


But this mechanism is very inappropriate for a non-intelligent being, as it's an angel. How did he nail the spear to himself? Or was it the spear itself that pierced the angel?

What do you think guys?

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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby thewayneiac » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:32 pm

The moons weren't supposed to crash. Adam's White Moon landed normally on Antarctica (which later ended up at the South Pole due to continental drift), sometime later something went wrong that caused Lilith's Black Moon to crash here, causing First Impact, and destroying Lilith's spear. The spears were created to be a fail safe device to keep the seeds from becoming gods. When two seeds ended up on Earth, one with the Fruit of Life and one with the Fruit of Knowledge, the creation of a god became inevitable when they came into contact. Since Lilith's spear was no more, Adam's spear had no choice but to immobilize him to prevent the creation of a god.
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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:37 pm

I dare anyone to come up with

(A) a reasonable way that First Impact could somehow have destroyed Lilith's Spear while not destroying Lilith herself. (Also note that the "egg" portion of the Black Moon was seen to be perfectly intact except for the hole from the N2 mine when it was exposed at 3I, making the CI's claim that the Spear was somehow separated from Lilith and then destroyed in the impact especially dumb.)

(B) a reasonable way for Adam to end up a "drowned corpse" pose perpendicular to the Spear with an incredible length of tines directly beneath her if we're meant to believe she was just minding her business one day and the spear decided to stick her in the back.

NGE2 is super valuable for reframing discussions away from the total cess pool of nonsense they had once been, but it does have its fair share of nonsense better ignored to focus on what's in the actual show.

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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby scorpew » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:49 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I dare anyone to come up with

"egg" portion of the Black Moon was seen to be perfectly intact except for the hole from the N2 mine when it was exposed at 3I, making the CI's claim that the Spear was somehow separated from Lilith and then destroyed in the impact especially dumb.


What is that "egg portion of the Black Moon", "3I" and "CI"?

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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby scorpew » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:37 pm

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:The moons weren't supposed to crash. Adam's White Moon landed normally on Antarctica (which later ended up at the South Pole due to continental drift), sometime later something went wrong that caused Lilith's Black Moon to crash here, causing First Impact, and destroying Lilith's spear. The spears were created to be a fail safe device to keep the seeds from becoming gods. When two seeds ended up on Earth, one with the Fruit of Life and one with the Fruit of Knowledge, the creation of a god became inevitable when they came into contact. Since Lilith's spear was no more, Adam's spear had no choice but to immobilize him to prevent the creation of a god.


Yes, but...

  • How does the Moon "normally land"? I mean, is a 13.75 km in diameter object falling to the Earth. And did the two Moons have different speed or something?
  • White Moon landed in Japan, not in the South Pole.
  • You say that due to the continental drift, the White Moon ended in the South Pole. Isn't the Antactica actually in the South Pole?

And, I do know why spears where created, but, why a spear for every Moon?, and how do we know this and that the Black Moon had it's own?. That's my question.

In fact, I have another question. When two seeds fall into the same planets, it's said that without the spears a God tier creature will appear, but how is this God tier created? By the intentional union of Adam and Lilith I guess, but if it has to be intentional, the Spears are useless anyway.

Also, everyone says "Adam's spear was activated because Lilith's spear was destroyed", who says that Lilith's spear was the one that should be activated first? Who has the priority of activation in normal conditions? This is why I suggest that it's possible that only one Spear existed.

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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby Zoop » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:28 pm

Most of these questions were answered by hints in the series and a lot of guess work. But were mostly confirmed by Evangelion games.

The black moon crashed into earth, debris collected from the collision became Earth's Moon, this is 1st impact. Embedded deep underneath Japan, this becomes the Geo Front of Tokyo-iii.

The white moon landed on earth in Antarctica, it's also a Geo Front, which was lost when Adam awakened.

Why one crashed, and the other landed, no clue, not really important I suppose. No clue where that continental shift comes from, the moons are where they first landed. Lilith landing was a crash, thus her spear was lost/destroyed.
Adam's spear was then later used to keep Lilith subdued.

Most of this stuff can be found in the wiki.
https://wiki.evageeks.org/Spear_of_Longinus
It lists it's sources, so you can backtrack where it's getting this from.

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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby MirrorUniverseAsuka » Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:37 am

The same way as all spears, really. They go away after 'Impact' and don't come back for about 30 minutes or so. Nods sagely.

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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby scorpew » Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:57 am

View Original PostZoop wrote:Most of these questions were answered by hints in the series and a lot of guess work. But were mostly confirmed by Evangelion games.

The black moon crashed into earth, debris collected from the collision became Earth's Moon, this is 1st impact. Embedded deep underneath Japan, this becomes the Geo Front of Tokyo-iii.

The white moon landed on earth in Antarctica, it's also a Geo Front, which was lost when Adam awakened.

Why one crashed, and the other landed, no clue, not really important I suppose. No clue where that continental shift comes from, the moons are where they first landed. Lilith landing was a crash, thus her spear was lost/destroyed.
Adam's spear was then later used to keep Lilith subdued.

Most of this stuff can be found in the wiki.
https://wiki.evageeks.org/Spear_of_Longinus
It lists it's sources, so you can backtrack where it's getting this from.


I still can't find where it's told that Lilith had it's own Spear. Perhaps it's told in the Evangelion Chronicle. If not, what if the Spear of Cassius was the Lilith's spear?

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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:29 am


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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:29 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I dare anyone to come up with

(A) a reasonable way that First Impact could somehow have destroyed Lilith's Spear while not destroying Lilith herself.

(B) a reasonable way for Adam to end up a "drowned corpse" pose perpendicular to the Spear with an incredible length of tines directly beneath her if we're meant to believe she was just minding her business one day and the spear decided to stick her in the back.


A) Maybe the spear left of its own accord? And in the sense that was "destroyed," perhaps the spear we see throughout NGE, with its double helix shape, is actually a fusion of both spears? And thus the spears came together and got Adam for some reason?

B) To answer this better, maybe the spear(s) was following some weird programming from Lilith or decided to lock Adam into a state where she'd already been inactive for a long time. I mean, what purpose does an already perfect being have anyway? There was no challenge to necessitate creation, nothing to strive for, so Adam laid dormant doing nothing. It's rather refmicnisnt of the various ways Shinji hangs his head in despair, plus his disposition about basically being nothing in a world of "perfect freedom" in ep. 25/26...

Point being, I like to think that the spears are just long red pointed sticks (which is why the term lance works so well here) and then the version we see with its odd behavior (subduing Adam, subduing Lilith, killing an Angel, connecting with Unit 01's core, becoming the Tree of Life, changing shape again) is a hybrid.

Also, wasn't there some bit about it being moved back and froth from Antarctica to the Middle East where the SSDSCs were found during the Katsuragi expedition just prior to 2nd Impact? What was that about? Because I have something of theory on that as well...
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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:48 pm

All that is provided by the show is:

(A) Adam was impaled on a Spear when discovered.
(B) A Spear was sent to Antarctica from the Dead Sea region shortly before the Contact Experiment.

Japanese does not have articles, so there is no way to know, in the mention of the latter, whether it is "the" Spear of Longinus, or "a" Spear of Longinus.

The stuff about the Spear being moved back and forth is fanwank crafted around the CI's claim that one of the Spears was destroyed in First Impact. However, if you are looking just at the show itself, which is incredibly economical with its hints, the only reason to associate the Spear of Longinus and the Dead Sea is in order to imply that the Spear has something to do with the origins of the Secret Dead Sea Scrolls. Which, it should be mentioned, are not given an actual concrete origin by Eva2. It says that the scrolls themselves were written by mystics who were reinterpreting some record of FAR origin, but absolutely no elaboration is provided on what this thing actually was. So the CI generates a contradiction here: it implies that the SDSS were based on SOMETHING ELSE, but then it denies the hint provided in the show of what that something else could have been. In such an instance, the only logical thing to do is to ignore the parts of the CI that contradict NGE, because duh.

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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:39 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:it implies that the SDSS were based on SOMETHING ELSE, but then it denies the hint provided in the show of what that something else could have been. In such an instance, the only logical thing to do is to ignore the parts of the CI that contradict NGE, because duh.


Interesting. That actually works a nice workaround about the scrolls and imagining some silliness about these giant beings traveling across the cosmos with little peaces of paper. Instead, they (the mystics) get their info from something else and write down their version. Which, human error being what is, gives us the only source we have (however unreliable it might potentially be) through the SDSS...And this ties in to theory we came up with a while back regarding the presence of real world religions in the NGE-verse, meaning the narrative they got from their source to create the scrolls got sent around the world through historical human progress and massive game of telephone to concoct the Theogany, the Tanakh, the Talmud, the Bible, the Quran and so forth, all right there from the cradle of life.

But idea is that the lances act as transmitters like antennae and sort of psychically send the messages sort of like the angel from ep. 22 and Asuka's mind rape. So, what we get the language of this "angel script" and an interpretation of what was in their heads. In that way, the SDSS are the result of ancient contact experiment...
FROM EVANGELION:
"Acts of Man are greater than acts of God!"

"I'm saying that I love you."

NOT FROM EVANGELION:
"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."

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Re: How do we know that Lilith had her own spear?

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Postby Rei IV » Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:33 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I dare anyone to come up with

(A) a reasonable way that First Impact could somehow have destroyed Lilith's Spear while not destroying Lilith herself. (Also note that the "egg" portion of the Black Moon was seen to be perfectly intact except for the hole from the N2 mine when it was exposed at 3I, making the CI's claim that the Spear was somehow separated from Lilith and then destroyed in the impact especially dumb.)

(B) a reasonable way for Adam to end up a "drowned corpse" pose perpendicular to the Spear with an incredible length of tines directly beneath her if we're meant to believe she was just minding her business one day and the spear decided to stick her in the back.

NGE2 is super valuable for reframing discussions away from the total cess pool of nonsense they had once been, but it does have its fair share of nonsense better ignored to focus on what's in the actual show.

LOL! How do you pick up on these things? This is similar to finding out the illogicality of the Mass Production Evas attacking and playing possum with Unit-02, or the lack of an explanation/visual as to where the fuck are Units 00, 01, and 02 standing on when attacking the 8th Angel in 2.0/Ha. You must be a very observant person in real life.

:lol: :hahaha:
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