Trailer 2 discussion thread

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Postby Joseki » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:39 am

First post updated with screenshots from the YouTube video :emogendo:



My guess is that we are seeing a new Rei waking up for the first time experiencing the pain of life. I don't know why, but I like this concept.
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Postby ArtyumR » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:37 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:First post updated with screenshots from the YouTube video :emogendo:



My guess is that we are seeing a new Rei waking up for the first time experiencing the pain of life. I don't know why, but I like this concept.


"I like to see people suffering" "especially if it's Rei" ..

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Postby Tumbling Down » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:05 am

If Kaworu is coming back, then he damn better be the antagonist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywsccTLfd0

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:11 am

I haven't made a news post in about a thousand years, but here's part 1 of a breakdown of the trailer. If there is some way to make only a little bit of the post display by default I have no idea how to do it...

View Original PostArtyumR wrote:"I like to see people suffering" "especially if it's Rei" ..

Joseki watches those scenes of Reis falling apart into bloody chunks on endless loop. So do I, for that matter. All the cool kids do it.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:15 am

View Original PostTumbling Down wrote:If Kaworu is coming back, then he damn better be the antagonist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ywsccTLfd0

Ah yes, the Shin Eva half of the fans deserve.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:58 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:In addition to the Nadia parallels, we need our Gunbuster ones. So on TOP (huh huh) of the inevitability of everyone going up into space at some point and crazy shit involving the Moon happening (like, the Moon has an atmosphere, so maybe we can finally get an Eva fight in the snow... ON THE MOON!!!)


But the moon in 3.0 is now an ominous black-with-red-checkers disco ball spinning around in the sky crazy low above Earth's atmosphere, almost like the moon in TTGL, descending to crush everyone on Earth.

Maybe that's what the moon is, it's a Gurren Lagann reference! After Gendo's soul goes into Eva-13, Fuyutsuki or rather Gargotsuki decapitates the head from his body and plugs it into the Rei system, turning him into a biocomputer like Lordgenome (Lordgendo, anyone?) and at some point Misato and WILLE get hold of Gendo's decapitated head. "Go to the moon" it says, and Shinji needs to fly deep into the moon and insert the Key of Nebuchadnezzar into the moon to halt its descent to the Earth. And then the moon transforms into a giant starship, complete with glorious music, and WILLE proceeds to blast Gargotsuki's monstrosities to bits! :lol:

Alright, I wasn't being terribly serious, but I won't be surprised if we see the already sinister-looking moon pose a threat to life on Earth, or transform into something even more bizarre as a Gurren Lagann reference.
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:06 am

It is possible to guess the length of a movie based on how many scenes and cuts it has? By the time we see Wunder heading towards the final impact, it is scene 299 (Likely final act).
How many minutes/hours is 299 scenes in your average movie? Or is it impossible to tell since the method to create each movie in the world varies from studio to studio and 299 scenes could mean 2 hours in one studio and 15 minutes in another.
Last edited by Giji Shinka on Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:38 am

@Giji Shinka: The "scene" thing is new to Eva, so I have no idea what kind of "unit of movie" it might be referring to. But hypothetically, any time the location shifts, they might just go to a new scene number. So possibly more of a "practical unit" than a "dramatic unit" or what have you, just to make things easier when stuff gets shuffled around the timeline during production.

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:Alright, I wasn't being terribly serious, but I won't be surprised if we see the already sinister-looking moon pose a threat to life on Earth, or transform into something even more bizarre as a Gurren Lagann reference.

Yeah, the Moon gives me a pretty bad feeling...

In Until You Come to Me along with the Sakura Nagashi music video, there are three bizarre shots of debris just floating in midair (during what does not seem to be an Impact). In one of those shots, the Moon can be seen hovering ominously in the sky. It almost looks like the debris is floating TOWARD it, but I'm not 100% sure. What I'm wondering is, is the Moon going to get so close that it starts exerting a gravitational effect that goes beyond 'making waves'? (Should that already be happening?)

We also know that the new films and Yamashita's Anima have some bizarre commonalities, and I wonder if Anima might give us a slight hint of things to come here... In Anima, the Earth and the Moon would trade places on some sort of cyclical basis. The Moon at the time would siphon off mass from the Earth and swell up into an Earth, and the Earth would shrivel down into a Moon. These giant data storage units called "Arks", of which one existed on each heavenly body, would be used to restart life from scratch. Now, I'm not arguing for any kind of 1:1 correlation here, but... The Moon has an atmosphere now, and it's changed its spin, and it's either gotten bigger, gotten closer, or both. It also has a lattice of core going across its entire surface, and what little we know about the stuff suggests that it's basically a magical phlebotinum substance -- it can expand and contract in ways that make no sense, it can transmute into other kinds of material, it has various handy uses such as the storing of... "data", etc. Meaning, that core lattice could, possibly, be there not as some suspended attempt to turn the Moon into core or something, but as a way to add mass to the Moon. Now, you add onto this the fact that Earth is being converted into a complete shithole where nothing can live, but the very same shit that is making Earth unliveable could also hypothetically be collecting the "spiritual data" of everyone who used to live there, with the possibility of eventually condensing that data in a smaller and handier form for later reconstitution somewhere else... And also, we have Wunder, which is an "Ark", and if that bridge Gendo and Fuyu were inside is any indication, there might be a second "Ark" too... :uhh:

This isn't even getting into the crazy Nausicaa parallels that were sort of maybe implied in Avant1. I really need to finish reading that manga so I can inhabit the insanity of anticipating this film even more deeply.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:32 pm

No real way to tell how the long movie is dependent on the scene numbering I would say.
If the Sn markers are indeed scene designator then all 10 minutes and 40 seconds of the Avant 1 material shown makes up just Scene 01 and the second scene starts with the pilots in the wild. Some scenes may just be an exterior shot lasting five seconds while others will be a lengthy action scene. No way to tell what is what.

Now I’ve long held the believe for years that the final entry was either going to be the longest Evangelion Film Anno ever made or the shortest. The belief it could be the shortest is that the final film would 100% focus solely on Shinji alone. With the release of the epic Avant 1 opening being an 11 minute opening with nary a central character in sight I’d say there’s no way it will be the shortest. Instead 3.0+1.0 is most likely going to be the Evangelion feature with the longest running time.
Hopefully it will be a run time akin to Shin Godzilla’s 2 hour length.
Last edited by Gendo'sPapa on Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Rei IV » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:12 pm

View Original PostJoseki wrote:First post updated with screenshots from the YouTube video :emogendo:



My guess is that we are seeing a new Rei waking up for the first time experiencing the pain of life. I don't know why, but I like this concept.

Is it possible that's Rei Q instead? It would be themative if she were to return to Nerv in a journey to find just what the heck/who is she. Fuyutsuki, as the harbinger of truth, reveals her dark origin's and disposable nature. Rei Q goes all bug eyed and insane and wants nothing to do with Nerv or Rei Ayanami. The result is a incantation of Rei that is no longer in Rei II's shadow.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:37 pm

I think the scene numbering starts after the two Avants.

If not, and scene 2 is also Avant 2, I dunno how Midori has her line there. Either she talks through an intercom or the Wunder already picks the pilots up? Also depends on what khara is counting as a scene.
Or maybe the script has changed since earlier in the year, but I doubt that.
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Postby cyharding » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:50 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Instead 3.0+1.0 is most likely going to be the Evangelion feature with the longest running time.

I've had this belief that 3.0+1.0 will be longer than Final Yamato for a while, as Anno was a huge fan of the franchise. Nice to see that there is some logic behind that belief.

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Postby Settie » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:24 pm

I wonder if 2 of those Shinji scenes take place in a "train" sequence type thing. Like he's having them while on the journey to w/e Asuka is taking them. Kaworu is one dead giveaway but even in the scene with the SDAT he looks to have his shirt from the school uniform.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:44 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Hopefully it will be a run time akin to Shin Godzilla’s 2 hour length.


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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:48 am

I started counting scenes using my 3.0 storyboard book, not knowing what khara counts as a scene.

I came up to 37 up to the end of part A ("He's not even an idiot, just a brat").
I fell asleep shortly afterwards lol (I was tired), but I started counting part B.
Dunno of this feels right?

This all depends a lot on what you define as a scene. Depending on what part of the movie you are in, there might also be more jumps between locations, faster rythm, etc.

In the shots from scene 2 featured in the trailer, it looks like it's twilight and then it's during the day? Or does it just look like that because there is an enormous red object covering the horizon in cut 10?
If there is a passage of time, khara might count a montage like that as one scene too.

This is really analysis going in blind lol.
The thing is...doesn't 37 seem very little? The new movie goes up to at least 299 (100% sure it goes beyond that).

I'll keep thinking about it, updates might come.
Any thoughts?
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:41 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I came up to 37 up to the end of part A ("He's not even an idiot, just a brat").

Ok, so when she says "He's not even an idiot, just a brat" and the title of the movie appears, it has been about 32:45 minutes since the movie started and 37 scenes.
If we assume you have the same amount of scenes for the remainder of the film (1 hour), then by the end, we have 111 scenes.

If the same logic applies to 3.0+1.0, then it would mean that the movie has over 333 scenes and triple the runtime of 3.0 (4 hours and 30 minutes, which doesn't seem right)
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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:48 am

∆ Exactly! Haha.

So either khara's definition is different from what I think, or the movie jumps between locations A LOT.
But it's likelier part A of 3.0 actually has more "khara-scenes" than 37 (actually 36, the first one is the Avant scene).
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:42 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:∆ Exactly! Haha.

So either khara's definition is different from what I think, or the movie jumps between locations A LOT.
But it's likelier part A of 3.0 actually has more "khara-scenes" than 37 (actually 36, the first one is the Avant scene).

I guess 3.0+1.0 is going to be similar to 2.0 in terms of structure (A lot of focus on other characters and story), while 3.0 had more in common with 1.0 (Focused on Shinji, other characters and story are more in the background)
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Postby Reichu » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:06 pm

View Original PostRei IV wrote:Is it possible that's Rei Q instead? It would be themative if she were to return to Nerv in a journey to find just what the heck/who is she. Fuyutsuki, as the harbinger of truth, reveals her dark origin's and disposable nature. Rei Q goes all bug eyed and insane and wants nothing to do with Nerv or Rei Ayanami. The result is a incantation of Rei that is no longer in Rei II's shadow.

More about this on the previous page of the thread:

Reichu wrote:There's a point during Until You Come To Me when we see Rei's hand crumbling away. She might HAVE to go back to Nerv HQ, if her survival depends on the facilities there. It would also tie into an unresolved question she asked last movie: "What am I, really?" HQ is where the answers are, unfortunately.

It being Rei Q with Fuyutsuki there is my preferred option at the moment. We really don't need this be like Anima, where there are multiple Reis active at once. We already have two who need their character arcs brought to closure, and that's enough.

Some of us in the Discord channel discussed the possibility that Fuyutsuki might be trying to manipulate Rei into piloting Eva-13. It gave me quite a horrible idea. Part of Fuyutsuki's expose to Shinji in Q was omitted from the final film:

FUYUTSUKI:
The clone that brought you here was the Ayanami type experimental prototype number six, prepared as the provisional pilot of Mark.09. As Yui-kun's information has not been transferred to it, it seems not to interest Ikari. That clone operates according to Seele's program. It is not our concern.

Both Mk.9 and Seele are, of course, out of the picture. Whatever the deal with "Seele's program", it seems Rei has also broken herself free of it. There's a lot of weird questions surrounding why Seele would need a Rei to pilot Mk.9 at all (which I plan to dive into somewhere, at some point), but we might get at least something resembling an answer from Mark.06. Kaworu says it was modified to be autonomous, and look at what happened to it. It was completely lost. Maybe a pilot is simply more reliable than automation. Maybe combining a live body plus automation is the best of both worlds.

If that's in any way true, then Fuyutsuki might still need a warm body to put inside (one of) Eva-13's entry plug(s). We don't know the status of the Rei clones, either. Those were a LOT of severed heads. What if there are simply no more left? And because Lilith is gone, they can't produce any more?

Everything about that cut in the trailer gives me bad vibes. Rei looking all disheveled, with her eyes bugging out like a doll's. Fuyutsuki looking evil as all fuck. The background suggesting they're in Fuyutsuki's creepy "Shrine to the Ayanamis". The extreme closeup on Rei meaning we can't see the rest of her, so hypothetically anything could be going on out of frame. This is of course completely wild speculation, but what if Rei is being loaded with Yui's "data" there? The reason being, of course, to make her interested in Gendo, and feel compelled to pilot Eva-13, the core of which Gendo has hypothetically entered by this point.

Alternative, simpler explanation: if Rei Q at one point operating according to "Seele's program", that means the program had to exist INSIDE HER. Meaning we can't assume that it ever went away, and if Fuyutsuki knows how the "program" works he could use it to his advantage.

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Postby Joseki » Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:22 pm

Something I noticed:

This is Sn054
Image

This is an image I did in 15 seconds using the gradient tool in Photoshop
Image

This is Sn010
Image

And this is a similar scene in 3.0
Image



There is something going on with the background in Sn054, as the colors on Rei's face are way too satured to be natural, and most of all the background is clearly lacking any detail.

I think khara is hiding something in that scene.
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