Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby Ark » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:10 pm

View Original Postxtr00kvltcorex wrote: Tiffany Grant exudes joy when Asuka has her badass epiphany and palpable rage and bloodlust during the harpy fight. New Asuka was horrible.


She does exude joy, but she also sounds like an adult woman who's inhaled helium. She doesn't sound like a young teenage girl. Tiffany Grant's anime performances barely sound any different regardless of how old the character she's playing is.


View Original Postxtr00kvltcorex wrote:The Shinji and Misato ones seem to be the only ones actually trying.


Considering that Asuka's new VA is an Irish woman playing an American teen I'd speculate she was needing to try harder than either of them.
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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:15 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:SawItAtAge10: Please step back with your attacks, they're seriously uncalled for.



I'm sorry. I'm just upset. Taking one look at the "From Evangelion" quotes I keep as part of my profile will reveal why...My main take away from this is just how unfair the whole thing feels.

Again, I apologize if I came across as over reactive or too aggressive about this whole thing. I just feel like this was somewhat of a major cultural event and that Netflix really dropped the ball on this whole thing.
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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:51 pm

View Original PostArk wrote:She does exude joy, but she also sounds like an adult woman who's inhaled helium. She doesn't sound like a young teenage girl. Tiffany Grant's anime performances barely sound any different regardless of how old the character she's playing is.


Her tone may not be true to the character's age, sure, but I'd rather it sound a bit older and be impassioned, than it be closer to the age and be stiff in scenes that demand some emotional lifting.
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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby Ark » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:24 pm

View Original Postxtr00kvltcorex wrote:Her tone may not be true to the character's age, sure, but I'd rather it sound a bit older and be impassioned, than it be closer to the age and be stiff in scenes that demand some emotional lifting.


It's more than a bit older. Asuka in the ADV dub sounds like Sarah Palin having a psychotic episode. She's able to sound more impassioned because she's making almost zero effort to sound like a young girl. It's just her normal voice. I understand what you're saying. I've mostly watched EVA with the ADV dub and was fine with it for many years. The last time I rewatched it though I just couldn't get passed the cartoonishness of Misato and Asuka's delivery, as well as Asuka's voice not matching her age at all. It was really distracting.

I think the Netflix VA for Asuka did a great job considering that's not her native accent, and she's actually making the effort to sound like a teen. It's a toss up between more naturalistic vocals but failing to hit the emotional high notes, and totally unrealistic vocals but with a more passionate performance where it counts. I certainly found the Netflix dub much less cringey than my last experience of the ADV dub. I think in the future I'll just watch it in the Japanese.
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Postby penguintruth » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:25 pm

And, of course, the best performance of all is Cherami Leigh as Pen Pen. It's a vital role that not just anyone can play. He's a principle player in the series!

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:41 am

Hubby and I finished up the Netflix English dub tonight. I'm a Japanese cast loyalist with some exposure to the old English dub(s); honsou had quite a bit more familiarity and fondness. Both of us came away with overall positive impressions. It's not my dream adaptation by any means -- there are still some rough edges on the script, some of the delivery feels lacking, and there is some super cringy stuff in there (the mispronunciations, for which there is ZERO excuse in this day and age, especially grate), but on the whole? It felt much better cast and more naturalistic. I could sit through it and still take the show seriously most of the time -- as in, I could believe these people were their characters. Hubby, despite some sentimental attachment to the old dub(s), seemed to have no major complaints. He was especially taken by the improvement on EoE, noting that this dub let him actually follow what was going on.

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:18 am

I fully agree.

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:31 am

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:Taking one look at the "From Evangelion" quotes I keep as part of my profile will reveal why...My main take away from this is just how unfair the whole thing feels.

Unfair? You can still access the old translations easily enough; and the "new" translation (well not so new in the key case, as ADV used "like" before the Platinum release) doesn't take away the meaning you want, but simply expresses it in a manner closer to the original Japanese.
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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby Ornette » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:59 am

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:You wanna harp on AWL's "bad directing" but Carrie what's her face not only hamfisted this rather dry, flat uninspired dub but she THEN had he audacity to muscle her way into the role of Misato - giving her cheap impression of Alison Keith every step of the way.

According to her tweet, that I think was linked in this thread, Japan made all of the casting decisions via blind submissions, so it wasn't her decision that she ended up playing Misato.

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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:He was especially taken by the improvement on EoE, noting that this dub let him actually follow what was going on.


Interesting. Aside from that one mistranslation about Adam/Lilith, the splooshes and "hit 'em again," I honestly love the Manga EoE dub. The absence of "I'm so fucked up" bummed me out a little. Tiffany Grant's joy and bloodlust in the MPE fight and the earnestness of the Shinji/Misato elevator scene are some of my favorites in the overall series.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:26 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:ADV used "like" before the Platinum release)

The comparison image that's going around is, critically, missing ADV's original (Collection) DVD release, where it was also "love". (See here.) Meaning that, for most of the ADV subtitles' history, it has, alas, been "love". The post I linked has some notes on the dub as well.

xtr00kvltcorex wrote:Interesting. Aside from that one mistranslation about Adam/Lilith, the splooshes and "hit 'em again," I honestly love the Manga EoE dub. The absence of "I'm so fucked up" bummed me out a little. Tiffany Grant's joy and bloodlust in the MPE fight and the earnestness of the Shinji/Misato elevator scene are some of my favorites in the overall series.

Yeah, I do have fond memories of Grant's performance in that one... The elevator scene I'm more "mleh" about, since my brain insistently edits that f-bomb line into "So what if I'm not fucking you?", so as far as I can remember :p the entire scene about Shinji whining that Misato isn't screwing him, which she of course amends (sort of) by the end. :p "I'm so fucked up" was comfy -- it was a good way to adapt that line; having Shinji curse there even serves to roughly translate something untranslatable from the original.

For the most part, I remember the Manga EoE dub for its cartoonish and hammy moments, of which there were, regrettably, a bit too many.

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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:08 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:For the most part, I remember the Manga EoE dub for its cartoonish and hammy moments, of which there were, regrettably, a bit too many.


It has its moments, and the only objective version is the Japanese original, my initial exposure was to the Manga dub, and it has a weird special place in my love for the series. I do wish the ham was sliced down a bit, the splooshes too. That dub would be perfect (IMO) without them.
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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby viperzero » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:15 am

Dub seems ok so far, I like Asuka and Rei's voices. I wouldn't say I like them as much as the old but they do seem a bit more real to me. On the other hand the Translation is awkward and everything seems a bit too subdued.

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:36 am

View Original Postviperzero wrote:Dub seems ok so far, I like Asuka and Rei's voices. I wouldn't say I like them as much as the old but they do seem a bit more real to me. On the other hand the Translation is awkward and everything seems a bit too subdued.


It's not awful per se, but given the hype, the opportunity and the investment, it had all the room to be so much more than simply "okay."
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Postby viperzero » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:54 am

View Original Postxtr00kvltcorex wrote:It's not awful per se, but given the hype, the opportunity and the investment, it had all the room to be so much more than simply "okay."

Yea, the old dub had more "Energy" as did the sub. I really do like some of the voices but the dub itself is just kinda ok. but I am totally sympathetic to someone who likes it.

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Postby Stan » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:34 pm

View Original Postxtr00kvltcorex wrote:It's not awful per se, but given the hype, the opportunity and the investment, it had all the room to be so much more than simply "okay."

Exactly. "Okay" only at times, other times is was :facepalm:.

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:46 pm

View Original PostStan wrote:Exactly. "Okay" only at times, other times is was :facepalm:


The fact this'll be some (many) people's first exposure to ETV/EoE and that they'll likely watch it in English is what makes this a small scale tragedy.
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Postby Stratomeister » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:32 pm

Having watched the original ADV release countless time I admit to a bias and the effects of nostalgia, and I did keep that in mind going into this event. But after watching the first right episodes of the new dub, I have to say that it’s not for me in its entirety. That being said, there many many aspects of the new dub that are obviously superior to the original, at least in my mind. So let’s focus on the positive to start with:

1) Dialogue in the first episode

I’ve always though that the ADV dub got off to a rocky start right off the bat in the first episode. This does not have so much to do with the performances by individual actors as it does with the scrip itself. For example, the first audible line in the entire series in spoken by Shinji as he is attempting to contact (presumably) Misato over the phone. Unable to reach her, he hangs up the receiver and childishly yells, “This is dumb!” Please bear in mind that at this moment the city is being evacuated as it is under attack. Not that any of this seems to concern Shinji. Yeah, not a great start… Minutes later, Shinji and Misato have survived a violent blast from an N2 mine, and after righting their car, Misato turns to Shinji and says, “Thanks Shinji, you’re pretty useful.” No concern for any potential injuries, no shock that they just survived an explosion with comparable power to that of a nuclear device, and no care to explain anything that is going on to poor Shinji. Just a cavalier attitude. While these and similar lines did grow on me in the end, kind of in a it’s so bad it’s funny way, this is not a good introduction for newcomers to the series. Mercifully, this was all rectified with the new translation.

2) Higher quality performances for secondary/minor characters

As is often the case with a production (particularly older ones), the characters of… lesser importance do not receive the same degree of care as those of primary concern. This was the case in the ADV dub of EVA, particularly with respect to Toji, Kensuke (to a lesser extent), SEELE members, and essentially any unnamed character. The new dub gave new life to these characters, with an overall improvement not only in VA performance, but better scripting all across the board. The new script and actors made interactions with these characters seem much more natural and organic, which was something I really appreciated. As good as the main cast may be in any production, nothing jolts you out of a carefully crafted world more jarringly than a shitty extra.

Now for all my praise, there were evidently things about the new dub that I did not appreciate. Please see below:

1) Key script changes

I know a lot of people have been up in arms over the whole NERV pronunciation, with it being naehrf as opposed to the original nerv. This isn't necessarily something that concerns me, and I can live with it. Want to change the pronunciation to make it more correct? Go ahead. Hell, there wasn’t even consistent pronunciation of EVA in the original dub, it flopped constantly between ehva and eeva. To be honest, I’m not event sure which one is “correct”. This isn’t what I mean. What I’m talking about are major changes to the script with respect to lines that I thought were plot integral or just sounded really cool. Here are some precise examples:

- “I mustn’t run away…” Shinji, Ep. 1
- “Acts of men are better than acts of God.” Misato, Ep. 7
- “Tell me, is she still so… wild in bed?” Kaji, Ep. 8
- “What the hell is this?” Shinji, Ep. 26
- “So fucking what I’m not you!” Misato, EoE
- “All’s right with the world.” Keel, EoE

No. 2 and 6 really irked me in particular. Misato’s line in episode 7 really exemplified her conviction, and it also sounded super badass. Keel’s line was spoken as he reverted to LCL at the onset of Third Impact, and it was handed to us on a bloody silver platter. It’s part of the goddam motto for NER(f)V for Christ sake! Why this was changed in the new dub I will never know.

2) The main cast

I really don't want to rag on the new VA and pick apart the individual performances. So I won’t. I will however provide some comments. The first thing I did when the new dub was released was target some key scenes in EoE to gauge how the voice acting for Asuka, Misato, and Shinji would pan out. Those being the battle between EVA-02 and the Eva series, the elevator scene, and the scream respectively.

I have always loved the battle between EVA-02 and the Eva series. The juxtaposition between the classical score and brutal hand-to-hand combat in truly a thing of beauty. To top it all off, Grant’s performance was top notch from the opening in the submerged EVA-02, to the death throes at the hands of the Eva series. McKeon’s performance certainly was not subpar in any respect, but it just did not hit me as hard as the original.

The final exchange between Misato and Shinji is also a very powerful moment. This scene did not have the same discrepancy as a result of the VA, but more so because of script changes, as I already touched on above. Hearing Keith-Shipp yelling “So fucking what I’m not you!” really drove home the message behind their whole conversation. Given the opportunity Keranen may have delivered the line with just as much gusto. I suppose we’ll never know.

Finally, Shinji’s scream in the closing moments of part one of EoE. Not much to say about this one. I enjoyed the new one just as much as the old. Congratulations.

Ultimately I think my opinions on the main cast are not worth a whole lot from an objective standpoint, mainly because they are just that. Opinions. After watching and listening to the original cast so many times, hearing these old characters with new voices just seems strange to me. I have spent too much time with the old guard to make the transition at this point.

In the end, I probably will watch the remainder of the Netflix release with the new dub to get a better idea of the whole picture, but that it as far as it will go. I doubt I’ll ever rewatch the show with the new dub after this. While as a whole I’m happy that the show finally got a new North American release, I’m glad that I have a few copies of the whole ADV dub in it’s entirety. Luckily I purchased a few of the box sets back in the days before even owning the show was prohibitively expensive.
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Re: Netflix English Dub Discussion

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:09 pm

The elevator scene was awful in the new dub. Lacked so much heft and energy that even the Manga dub had. Totally agree here.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:28 pm

I've heard it mentioned in this thread that Dan Kanemitsu was the translator that worked on the English scripts for NGE and EOE for this new sub/dub. Isn't he Khara's in-house translator that they use to verify accuracy of Japanese > English translations?

I mean, say what you will about the performances, but if the above is accurate, then this point must be stressed: if Khara had the power to use their own in-house translator for the English script, then any beef that you have about the awkwardness of the script or any unwanted changes should be with Khara, not Netflix.
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