Netflix Release General Discussion

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:05 pm

View Original Posteldomtom2 wrote:Oh no. What bullshit is this? Anno has repeatedly stated that EoTV reflected who he was when he made it, and EoE does the same. And his criticisms are definitely not due to "incompleteness" - remember that 26 came out pretty much as intended - but due to fundamental plot content. They are not the same message. They cannot be.

Citations would help. "..has repeatedly stated..." is not a citation.
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Postby eldomtom2 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:38 pm

Anno: Um. Evangelion is my live performance. Since I create it with this sense of it being live, what I'm thinking now, what I'm feeling now, my current mood, all this gets transferred onto film - that was the initial theme, or the theme I had in my mind.

...


Anno: The final episode ended up being that way on television, and, well, with it [Evangelion] ended once, but I'll be remaking it once more. Ah, it's strange to say remaking, because I'll be going back to the initially completed scenario, but when I actually do it, I imagine I'll probably have rewritten the scenario as it is now, but my current feelings will be reflected [in it]. So, since those will be my feelings after two or three months have passed, I wonder how things will turn out when I sit down to think about Evangelion's ending. What will happen? So that [version] will also be included when the video is released.

...

Anno: Right, doing it again, if I can do it after some time has passed, then my feelings at that time will probably be represented in the new [versions of episodes] 25 and 26. Only, I have no desire to repudiate what is there now, because that represents my present feelings.


http://forum.evageeks.org/post/827127/Anno-EoE-gives-the-same-end-as-the-TV-series/#827127

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:56 pm

I am aware of those, but that does not really mean EoTV an EoE conflict thematiclly at all. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a work NOT to reflect however an author is during the time he is making it. But this also applies to constraints, lack of time, poor execution, which is arguably something you could infer was present in EoTV. Anno never realized many of the things people would end up interpreting from Eva - Rei becoming the perfect moe doll is one example, Kaworu the perfect yaoi saviour another. He did do the Director's Cuts later, and you could in a way call those retcons... except that, of course, he did not really alter anything (except, for, say, Misato NOT being supposedly implied to having killed Kaji), and only added more context. You can also say the same thing about the Rebuilds. The Japanese text is still there, the Japanese release is still the same, if he decided to alter an English translation of his work (that had many flaws to begin with), he is well within that right, particularly when nothing here is removing anything but only bringing it closer to how it was actually written. If people are unwilling to accept the show how it was actually written because it clashes with their interpretations built out of a notoriously flawed localization, too bad for them, but that doesn't make the actual show any less legitimate. Not at the least because, you know, other interpretations have also existed all along. Once again, all of these have been fixed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyL3cGV6JDY

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby eldomtom2 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:43 am

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:I am aware of those, but that does not really mean EoTV an EoE conflict thematiclly at all.

Yes they do. Even disregarding Anno's statements (he went so far to call EoTV an ending where Shinji doesn't mature), there is an obvious difference between "Congratulations!" and "How disgusting".The conclusions EoE reaches are much more cynical and qualified than EoTV's.

if he decided to alter an English translation of his work (that had many flaws to begin with), he is well within that right, particularly when nothing here is removing anything but only bringing it closer to how it was actually written.

This is missing my point that the distance of time, combined with Anno's tendency to change his mind on things and contradict himself, mean that the new translation is not inherently "bringing it closer to how it was actually written".

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:10 am

I always took EoTV as Shinji learning how to love himself, while EoE has Shinji realizing that he can’t love himself.

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Postby Reichu » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:16 am

*glances at current state of thread*
*glances at supposed topic*
*looks back at current state of thread*
*brows knit slightly in displeasure*

We have other places to argue about this stuff, you know.

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby iain » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:11 pm

One point I haven't seen any mention yet is the episode title changes. Wha happen? Where did my 'Asuka Attacks!' go? It's strange to see this as part of the same re-translation effort.

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Postby TheMelonMan » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:33 am

The new episode titles are translations of the original Japanese episode titles, which is in a sense in-line with the rest of the new translation. The odd thing is that those original English titles were never translations, so to speak - as far as I know they were used all the way back in the original Japanese broadcast and were inventions of Anno and the production team rather than a translator. They didn't change the actual title cards in the episodes, either, so you get one title on Netflix's browsing screen and another in the episode itself. Just a weird decision.

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Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:20 pm

Giving the European Spanish dub of Evangelion a watch. Some scenes here and there.

More elaborated opinions maybe in the future.

One thing I noticed… In End of Eva, Shinji’s (awesome) scream at the end of part 1 is just left the same, it’s Megumi Ogata’s scream.

It’s like they realized “Yeah, ain’t nobody competing with that”, which they are right about. But it’s also jarring, since the voice is so different. It’s kinda funny.

EDIT: They also do this with Maya's scream when Giant Rei passes through her. If they were going to do it anyway, they could/should (imo) left Asuka's Longinus pierced scream too.

In general, being objective, it’s all right I guess. With some errors here and there. Like in episode 9, Ritsuko’s “Horrible…” or however you wanna translate it, her comment on Shinji’s and Asuka’s performance. In the dub she says it differently each time, when the joke is she says it the same way, using the same words, and that’s how you identify it was her the first time too. They didn’t get the joke here.
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Postby SEELE-01 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:29 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:Giving the European Spanish dub of Evangelion a watch.


Questions!
How does the kitchen scene in EoE play out?
Is Gendo's silent line actually silent this time?
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Postby kuribo-04 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:54 am

View Original PostSEELE-01 wrote:Questions!
How does the kitchen scene in EoE play out?
Is Gendo's silent line actually silent this time?

I'll give it another watch and tell you. :)
The Gendo line I don't know about, the kitchen scene...
Shinji tells Asuka he wants to be with her and she says he is just afraid. The original meaning comes through.
I don't remember it too well thougj.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
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Postby Tumbling Down » Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:41 pm

My long-held interpretation of End of Evangelion may have just been destroyed by the change of a single line.

I saw the kitchen scene in pre-Instrumentality as Rei placing Shinji's soul together with Asuka's, with no AT field, so Shinji could see how she really felt before making a decision as to what he wanted. The line "I thought this would be a world without pain" seemingly referred to the world of pre-Instrumentality, where there are no AT fields are lifted but people still have their identity, allowing for honest and unfiltered communication. Hence Rei's response "That's because you thought everyone thought the same as you." (See how AT fields can both protect and hurt? Much like hedgehog spikes

The line (at least in the dub) is now "I thought the world was without pain."

The world? As in, Earth? Does this invalidate my interpretation of the film?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:24 am

The original line --「イヤな事が何もない、揺らぎのない世界だと思っていたのに」-- doesn't offer much in the way of specifics. You're supposed to know what he's talking about based on context. Here he's referring to a world free of unpleasantness and uncertainty, and Shinji certainly never thought the regular world was free of those things, so the interpretation that he's talking about the "inner world" he had tried to escape into seems to work better.

I'm ashamed to say that I never considered this interchange very much... If Shinji is consciously aware of what's going on to the point he actually knew he had tried to escape somewhere else, then it gets a bit harder to excuse him wishing death upon everybody. It's easier to give the kid a break when for much of it he doesn't really have any idea what's going on, and the gods who are systematically breaking his mind until he wishes for death represent the indomitable forces of mental illness or something. Much of the movie plays out like a nightmare where you're just along for the ride.

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Postby Tumbling Down » Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:01 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:then it gets a bit harder to excuse him wishing death upon everybody.

It's not death. It's a glorious rebirth, for everyone! And that includes Shinji.

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Postby Fazmotron » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:05 am

Just a quick note on what possible future physical releases for Eva could be in this post Netflix world:

I was pretty worried that Netflix may have scooped up the rights for not only the streaming of Eva but also the physical release, so at SMASH2019 I asked a spokesperson from Madman Entertainment (an Australian anime distributor) if he could give any information about possible future physical releases. He explained that it still seems to be up in the air, and seemed to say that whatever physical release does come in the future might not necessarily be a Netflix release.
He gave the example of Violet Evergarden, which was released in the west on Netflix first, but the physical release was handled separately by Madman. This at least gives me a little hope for a high quality Blu-Rei Eva release by a company that respects and values the product they are distributing.
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Postby SEELE-01 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:41 pm

View Original PostTumbling Down wrote:It's not death. It's a glorious rebirth, for everyone!


That sounded like a deriled cult leader answering someone who just questioned why they have to take the juice laced with cyanide...
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:46 am

View Original PostFazmotron wrote:This at least gives me a little hope for a high quality Blu-Rei Eva release by a company that respects and values the product they are distributing.

Are They Gonna Use The Original ADV English Dub: Round Two!

Fight!

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Postby Tumbling Down » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:24 am

View Original PostSEELE-01 wrote:That sounded like a deriled cult leader answering someone who just questioned why they have to take the juice laced with cyanide...

:lol: Exactly!

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:35 am

The Netflix release leading to "The ReBirth of Evangelion" where millions of new fans became diehard Evangelion heads and discussed the show forever seemingly did not happen.
There was an intense couple days of hype and discourse. Lots of passionate sweeping statements and generalizations. Pop culture websites wrote some myopic - "Evangelion, a Japanese anime from the mid 90s is really about this modern day American social issue" essays. And then that all moved on to the next big release.
That's the Netflix way.

It would be impossible to find out but what I would love to know what percentage of the initial views on NGE on Netflix so far were rewatches from people who had already seen & were fans of the series.

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:57 pm

Were we really expecting that to happen? Even if a "dedicated" anime company like Crunchyroll or Funi released it with heavy marketing (which Evangelion didn't have) and tons of hype, it would still not just bring in tons and tons of new fans. Eva, in the West, is a cult classic anime, and anime in the West is still not 100% mainstream, particularly if something isn't a standard shounen action story. Eva is in a niche inside a niche. It still has brought in new people, you can see increased activity everywhere. But it was never going to be a game changer. 3.0+1.0's release will probably generate move movement though, much like 3.0 did.


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