Netflix Release General Discussion

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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:32 am

The biggest giveaway that it's intended to be gay, them both being men, nude and open in ways friends are not all aside, and I'm being cheeky here, is that the scene takes place in a fucking bath house.
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Postby pwhodges » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:45 am

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:I thought that this was interesting:

https://kotaku.com/a-translation-change ... 849965/amp

It's an opinion piece, but it does make some level of sense about context, even with the difference being split on "Love" or "Like"

Yet another commentary that calls the Platinum version "the original".

Of course, it's clear that the Japanese is the true original; but it's also worth remarking that you could call ADV's VHS version "the original" in terms of translation, in which case you'd probably be interested to know that it used "like" (at least in the subs - don't know about the dub). They did change it for the first DVDs, admittedly.
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Re: Netflix Release General Discussion

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:36 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote: but it's also worth remarking that you could call ADV's VHS version "the original" in terms of translation, in which case you'd probably be interested to know that it used "like" (at least in the subs - don't know about the dub). They did change it for the first DVDs, admittedly.


I was love in the VHS dubs...Those are the first I saw of NGE 20 years ago and I distinctly remember that scene..

But I think the main point is that very little changed from on transfer of the ADV dub from one medium to the next except mostly with the DC episodes.

But yes the order would go > Japanese TV > ADV VHS > ADV Perfect Collection > ADV Platinum > Netlfix > ?
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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:01 pm

I think it's just because we've had the DVD dub longer and some (me) have an attachment to it. It was the form that the series was introduced to me.

Why ADV Perfect or Platinum? I've tended to see Platinum raised up as the better of the home releases.
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Postby FelipeFritschF » Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:54 pm

View Original Posteldomtom2 wrote:From what I heard saying that Anno wrote Schizo/Parano is a mistranslation or misinterpretation - what actually happened was that in some cases Anno changed or edited his answers after the interview, and then had to edit the interviewers' comments.


What do you mean? He edited what they wrote inside the interviews? This makes no sense, really. Do you have any source for that?

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:47 pm

View Original Postxtr00kvltcorex wrote:
Why ADV Perfect or Platinum? I've tended to see Platinum raised up as the better of the home releases.


Oh of course. That wasn't meant tone greater than or less than I was just listing them with "arrows" in the progression of when they came out. Sorry that wasn't clear.

I feel like the Platinum version is the more superior one seeing as the Perfect Collection was literally just a DVD transfer of the old VHS stuff with nothing new and of lower quality. That being said, the Platinum version has the DC episodes which help to better set up EoE... And it's going to be my continued preferred version.
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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:01 pm

View Original PostSawItAtAge10 wrote:Oh of course. That wasn't meant tone greater than or less than I was just listing them with "arrows" in the progression of when they came out. Sorry that wasn't clear.

I feel like the Platinum version is the more superior one seeing as the Perfect Collection was literally just a DVD transfer of the old VHS stuff with nothing new and of lower quality. That being said, the Platinum version has the DC episodes which help to better set up EoE... And it's going to be my continued preferred version.


I don't see how a different version, as far as US dubs go, could be preferred. Not to slam anyone who would oddly prefer the Netflix dub, if you have to do a dub at all.
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Postby FelipeFritschF » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:26 pm

Image

Apparently, this is now being used as evidence that Netflix are a bunch of Asushin shippers. Funny, it doesn't change the meaning of the scene at all, Shinji is still desperate and looking for a crutch.

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Postby anikid9000 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:53 pm

No it's mainly being used as a counterpoint to Dan's "I wanted to keep the lines ambiguous" excuse and as yet another example of the overall script being poor and unnatural.

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Postby SEELE-01 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:18 pm

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:Apparently, this is now being used as evidence that Netflix are a bunch of Asushin shippers. Funny, it doesn't change the meaning of the scene at all, Shinji is still desperate and looking for a crutch.

Well, in the Spanish dub he literally says "you've always been the love of my life"...
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Postby eldomtom2 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:00 pm

View Original PostFelipeFritschF wrote:What do you mean? He edited what they wrote inside the interviews? This makes no sense, really. Do you have any source for that?

He edited the interview after it had be done, as is common, and in the process of doing so ended up making some questions lose their contexts, thus necessitating their rewrite. Source is here: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/758915/Anno-Retrospective-at-the-Tokyo-International-Film-Festival/#758915.

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:47 pm

View Original Posteldomtom2 wrote:He edited the interview after it had be done, as is common, and in the process of doing so ended up making some questions lose their contexts, thus necessitating their rewrite. Source is here: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/758915/Anno-Retrospective-at-the-Tokyo-International-Film-Festival/#758915.


I imagined so, that makes enough sense. Again, says nothing about the other stuff.

View Original Postanikid9000 wrote:No it's mainly being used as a counterpoint to Dan's "I wanted to keep the lines ambiguous" excuse and as yet another example of the overall script being poor and unnatural.


He did not want to keep the lines as ambiguous. They ARE ambiguous.

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Postby anikid9000 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:53 pm

Yes, it's just coincidentally completely and totally ambiguous when it concerns two boys and but when it concerns a boy and a girl. No matter your stance on the like/love line, this is hitting the nail with an N2 mine for no good reason when he has otherwise claimed that his translation intent was to keep the ambiguity of the overall script.

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:58 pm

View Original Postanikid9000 wrote:Yes, it's just coincidentally completely and totally ambiguous when it concerns two boys and but when it concerns a boy and a girl. No matter your stance on the like/love line, this is hitting the nail with an N2 mine for no good reason when he has otherwise claimed that his translation intent was to keep the ambiguity of the overall script.


But this is ambiguous as well. It's obvious in context that Shinji is just not madly in love with Asuka, the fact that he is unable to reach out to her this way is a big point made in the series. I think both subs really convey the same thing.

I think we have to understand that in both those cases Shinji is being biased, and Kaworu has extreme ambiguity in his dialogue as well. In Asuka's case, I think this ties in very nicely to her saying that to Shinji "anyone will do" right after. Shinji's isn't declaring romantic love, because he is unable of that at that point - as Asuka says, he never really liked anyone because he doesn't even like himself. Shinji just wants someone to be his escape, to offer him unconditional, one-sided, riskless affection, but Asuka doesn't want to be just his "doll". She wants him to give back, to recognize her as a human being, because she does not exist for his sake alone.

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Postby MuscleRobo » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:48 am

This is going to sound like a dig but I'm being serious, does a boy spilling his heart to another boy then looking him dead in the eye and saying I like you not blunt enough for a western audience? Have you never had someone tell you they liked you before? Do they drop the L bomb immediately? I feel like Japan was able to make plenty of KawoShin content when they had the work like. There are subtleties to the Japanese language that are tougher to translate and I prefer when the translator inserts them self less. Heck, having studied Japanese enough and bought a bad release or two I'm checking to make sure a certain manga translator isn't hitting some of the manga I get and avoid some company's releases because a lot of translators recently seem to view their job like a copy editor in charge of a rewrite for quality. Like is a perfectly fine translation and a lot of the people complaining don't even seem to listen to the sub or know Japanese by looking at their memes.

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:16 am

View Original PostMuscleRobo wrote:This is going to sound like a dig but I'm being serious, does a boy spilling his heart to another boy then looking him dead in the eye and saying I like you not blunt enough for a western audience? Have you never had someone tell you they liked you before? Do they drop the L bomb immediately? I feel like Japan was able to make plenty of KawoShin content when they had the work like. There are subtleties to the Japanese language that are tougher to translate and I prefer when the translator inserts them self less. Heck, having studied Japanese enough and bought a bad release or two I'm checking to make sure a certain manga translator isn't hitting some of the manga I get and avoid some company's releases because a lot of translators recently seem to view their job like a copy editor in charge of a rewrite for quality. Like is a perfectly fine translation and a lot of the people complaining don't even seem to listen to the sub or know Japanese by looking at their memes.


It does matter. The subtleties may be present in the Japanese language, the words more elegant, abstract and interpretable, but for an audience, like the west, that tends to prefer affection declared in absolutes, it matters. For me, who finally came out a decade ago, who found some odd comfort in episode 24's handling of those interactions amid a chaotic mental flogging, it very much mattered. "Like" is so often viewed in the states as subordinate to "love" that when a term other than the latter is used, it feels as if the relationship it correlates to has been demoted.
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Postby ErgoProxy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:14 am

Okay, I know I'll regret this, but I want to be honest for a moment and say it aloud that I'm having a good laugh now. First you soak your culture in sex of all variants and configurations because it's said to be progressive and whatnot, and then you have astronomical troubles with proper decryption of relation that - except for Shinji being a seriously messed up kid - simply mirrors the brotherhood of Old Shatterhand and Winnetou. Oh wait, I can bet your scholars have already discovered (read: implanted) gayness even there. Really, boys, girls and hesitant ones, you are insane.

xtr00kvltcorex wrote:The subtleties may be present in the Japanese language, the words more elegant, abstract and interpretable, but for an audience, like the west, that tends to prefer affection declared in absolutes, it matters.

Lulz on you, for admitting that the Japanese culture with all its drawbacks and shady corners is better developed than your own one. If so, why should anybody care for an audience like the west? Care for what the Japanese are willing to teach you.

xtr00kvltcorex wrote:"Like" is so often viewed in the states as subordinate to "love" that when a term other than the latter is used, it feels as if the relationship it correlates to has been demoted.

But who is the one who demotes it? Even the Old Greeks knew that agape is a kind of love higher than philia, which is higher than eros. If you are unable to sense the difference and you spit your ignorance on translator who only tries to do his best with a coarse tool, maybe you should sit down in a corner and, to quote Anno, "study harder"?
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Postby Jibe » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:31 am

Not in relation with the current flow of the discussion but I noticed a significant increase of the new members for june (1.5 page of new members for june only compared to the usual less than one page trend). The month is not finished, and let's see what it will be for july.

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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:39 am

View Original PostErgoProxy wrote:Okay, I know I'll regret this, but I want to be honest for a moment and say it aloud that I'm having a good laugh now. First you soak your culture in sex of all variants and configurations because it's said to be progressive and whatnot, and then you have astronomical troubles with proper decryption of relation that - except for Shinji being a seriously messed up kid - simply mirrors the brotherhood of Old Shatterhand and Winnetou. Oh wait, I can bet your scholars have already discovered (read: implanted) gayness even there. Really, boys, girls and hesitant ones, you are insane.


Lulz on you, for admitting that the Japanese culture with all its drawbacks and shady corners is better developed than your own one. If so, why should anybody care for an audience like the west? Care for what the Japanese are willing to teach you.


But who is the one who demotes it? Even the Old Greeks knew that agape is a kind of love higher than philia, which is higher than eros. If you are unable to sense the difference and you spit your ignorance on translator who only tries to do his best with a coarse tool, maybe you should sit down in a corner and, to quote Anno, "study harder"?


I'm not sure where this offense that I'm perceiving is coming from? I applaud Japanese linguistics, my statement simply meant to say that, in its own ways, especially when it comes to romantic expression, American English is a blunt instrument, or often translated as such. Sure, the decrypting of those subtleties could be something done more often, but the problem with this Netflix version is its coming in the wake of 15+ years of the ADV DVD dub, which uses "love."

Yeah, you can rank earthly love and divine love and all that may exist between and beyond, but Kaworu approached Shinji in a human form, not as the deity he truly is, and likely the affection and comfort Shinji felt was meant to be felt at the human level, not at the distance between God and man.

I have no problems with how it may be written originally, or how others may perceive elsewhere in the world, what I know is how I was shown this series, and how, in the translation it was originally presented to me, it made me feel, and how this new translation felt like some gravitas was lost in Episode 24. For one bemoaning the west's painting of sexualities of all angles, you seem ignorant, if not outright hostile, to all the angles that translations and their subsequent interpretations can be taken to heart. Or what they can mean to people. I think Evangelion's central point is the myriad ways subjects are approached, dissected and affecting. To quote Anno, it's a story we complete ourselves after a certain point (or something like that). Perhaps find your own corner to find your own emotional endpoint for this series since you find mine, and others, apparently frustrating.
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Postby kuro hazama » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:02 am

I´ve never seen anyone point this out so sorry If I´m wrong.

Video content wise we have an important difference from the BD: This is a different master, Its the HD master for steaming purposese they´ve used in Japan for some time, the main difference is that the opening cedits only Hideaki Anno as creator instead of Gainax, which probably got reverted in the BD as to be somewhat purist in the content.
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