Petition to get original neon Genesis evangelion dub added to Netflix

[Ethan Phaneuf]

Hello evangelion fans and I'm coming here to ask for help.
So I am sure most of you know Neon Genesis Evangelion and it's 2 original movie death and rebirth and the end of evangelion are coming to Netflix June 21st 2019. but I'm sure some of you are not aware that the original English dub isn't coming they are doing a entire redub and have ZERO intention of adding the original with Spike Spencer and Tiffany Grant. Which is a in justice to the original series and is not fair to the original voice actors who offered and even where auditioned for there roles after a big fuss was made that they weren't being there characters that they have been for 20 years. So I ask as a community of this amazing show to sign this petition to get the original dub added along with the new dub (it's 100% safe even Tiffany grant the voice of Asuka has signed and posted and her fan club wall on Facebook it has 176 signatures at this moment) please I ask to help stop Netflix from ruining this show that we all love.here is the link to the petition thanks if anyone signs https://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/548/695/859/

[pwhodges]

Which is an injustice to the original series

Er, the original series is dubbed in Japanese. Some people (not me) see providing dubs in any other language to be a perversion...

Actually, the matter of the assumed new dub has already been discussed at considerable length in this forum. The first English dubs* are largely pretty good, but have known flaws as well; there is no reason to suppose that a new dub by contemporary actors will be less good (obviously it could be better or worse; we'll just have to see). There may be problems getting permission to reuse the old English dubs (who even have the rights to them now?), and Netflix may simply have a policy of providing their own dubs for everything in any case.

* (Plural, because the series and films were handled by different companies)

[scenikeight]

There may be problems getting permission to reuse the old English dubs (who even have the rights to them now?), and Netflix may simply have a policy of providing their own dubs for everything in any case.

I believe Grant said that Netflix does in fact have the rights to the ADV dub (no mention of Manga Entertainment iirc) but is choosing not to use it, in her Facebook post about it - whether she's a reputable source on that or not is a matter of contention though.
Netflix also does not seem to have any policy regarding re-dubbing - there's plenty of anime on Netflix that uses old dubs, including shows like YuGiOh that were so heavily edited in their dubbing they can't even be presented alongside the original Japanese on the service.
This is likely part of the reason why a redub of Eva is necessary, as Death's English version is oddly out of sync with the Japanese (and I'm not sure the Death(true)2 version was dubbed in the first place? No Eva wiki seems to be convinced on what the difference between these releases even are).

Regardless, I can't see the point in wasting your own time starting or signing a petition to get Netflix to use a dub that was either not up to their standards, if Grant is to be believed, or was just not available to them at all. They're not going to be swayed by a small group of people who want their nostalgia catered to. Redubbing it is pretty obviously the smartest option here given the quality issues of the original Eng dub. Yeah, it's upsetting that - again, if the VAs are to be believed - the original English cast was screwed over in the auditioning process, but Netflix is Netflix and Netflix will do what it wants. Saying things like "Netflix is going to ruin the original show" doesn't help OP's case at all, given that any foreign language dub will be transformative somehow (do I even need to bring up what Manga Entertainment did to EoE?) and no matter how old it is, it's clearly not part of the original show in the first place...

[Reichu]

I'm not sure the Death(true)2 version was dubbed in the first place? No Eva wiki seems to be convinced on what the difference between these releases even are).

Death(True)^2 is the standard home video release. There has classically been contention about the three versions' differences since, for a long time, the first two (Death and Death(True) were not available, the first being the theatrical release and the second being from a satellite TV broadcast. This was eventually fixed for the Eva BD box, but the "comparing all three side-by-side and writing it up on a wiki" part needs to have someone who's willing to do it...

[GentlemanX]

The key difference between Eva on Netflix and say Yu-Gi-Oh! on Netflix is that Evangelion has sort of been licensed by Netflix themselves, hence the global release, while Yu-Gi-Oh! is only sub-licensed through 4K Media (or the company that was 4K Media and got named something else a few weeks ago). That's why Yu-Gi-Oh! is also streaming on Hulu and Crunchyroll while Eva will be exclusive to Netflix. The rumor is Netflix only has the streaming rights to the show however, so it's conceivable another company (FUNimation, Sentai Filmworks, Discotek, Viz Media - lots of options here, all of which have worked with Netflix licensed content before) could put out the show for home video down the line (this goes for every region of course, not just the North American companies I just mentioned). But anyway, that's why Netflix will treat Eva differently than something that doesn't belong to them.

There really isn't a good example of something like Netflix and Eva - Netflix doesn't normally go around license rescuing titles, they're mostly interested in shows they have a hand in making or acquiring before they've otherwise been released. Netflix does dub the content they pick up (to varying degrees of success I hear), but these products are also new and don't have legacy dubs. Netflix treating Eva like a new property and therefore giving it a new dub therefore makes sense to a certain degree - they likely are treating it like the rest of their anime licenses and just doing a new dub because that's standard procedure. The same would be true if they picked up Cowboy Bebop or Black Lagoon - the quality of the dub is likely irrelevant. On the other hand, I hear their dubs of the Bleach and FullMetal Alchemist live-action films featured some of the original dub cast, but not all of them. That could suggest Netflix simply didn't think Eva was as popular as those series and therefore didn't require the same level of care for its' existing fanbase, who's to say.

Whether Netflix has the ability to stream the ADV and Manga Entertainment dubs of the series and EoE is up to Khara. Tiffany Grant, being married at the time to Matt Greenfield, would be a very solid source of information about what ADV's deal with Gainax would have included, and she's been clear that the Japanese rights holders own the rights to the English language version ADV produced. Which makes sense, it's nearly unheard of for an officially produced English dub of a series to not be available to the Japanese company. It's why Aniplex is able to use FUNimation produced dubs for shows like FullMetal Alchemist and Baccano and why Discotek is able to include legacy dubs of more obscure titles like Night on the Galactic Railroad or Locke the Superman. Sometimes, the rights holders do not want to make a previous dub available; a famous example is Toei preventing Viz Media from releasing the Dic and Cloverway dubs of Sailor Moon. But it's very rare for the Japanese rights holder not to have the rights to an English language version (maybe something like Digimon The Movie where there's a bunch of licensed music?). I have no doubt Khara has the rights to the ADV and Manga Entertainment dubs, I just don't know if they didn't allow Netflix to use them or if Netflix didn't ask to use them. Given every language is being re-done, it feels more likely the decision was made by Netflix and that it's not some personal judgement from Khara regarding the quality of the previous English version.

If this is the case, it's possible an eventual home video release could include both the original dubs and the new ones - Discotek and FUNimation in particular have a long standing history of including multiple dubs or English language versions of their license rescues including Castle of Cagliostro, Akira, IGPX, and The Vision of Escaflowne amongst others. It also should therefore be possible for Netflix to also acquire the original dubs, if they should so choose at some point, which I admit is unlikely since it didn't seem to occur to them initially.

For me, my only interest is hearing an English version with Spencer, Grant, and Keith in their respective roles; so if Netflix's release doesn't have that as an option I won't be supporting it. I like most of the other ADV and Manga Entertainment voices too (Macavery as Gendo in particular), and I like the FUNimation voices as well, but those three have become untouchable for me. The ADV and Manga Entertainment dubs are about as close to me as any particular work of fiction can be. They came to me at a time when I thought about harming myself on a daily basis and was deep, deep into my struggle with depression. I don't feel I need to explain on this forum of all places how impactful Evangelion can be on someone's life - and I saw almost all of myself in that whiny kid who yelled and complained and felt no one cared about him. Spencer's Shinji spoke to me in a way I feel Ogata's version just doesn't - not that Ogata's performance is bad; it's incredibly heartfelt, but it just doesn't relate to me the way Spencer's version does. I love pretty much all of that cast for similar reasons. I've been having a very rough time since the idea of a re-dub began floating around, probably because of how connected I feel to it. It's a major part in my emotional development and recovery as a person, so seeing it be hand waved has been hard. I know it doesn't invalidate what I experienced, but it feels personal nonetheless. I have the Platinum release and I know how to sync a dub up to the HD footage; so it's not as though I can be prevented from watching the version that means so much to me again. But not being able to get hyped for the big re-release sucks. Heaven help me if new actors are used for 3.0+1.0.

Sorry for the wall of text. It's been weighing on me.

[Ambiant23]

But the original dub wasn't even that great.

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

So, there's this weird "Catch 22" of popular media that become staples of culture. Many fans tend to proclaim that "X" popular character in media is "legendary," which could be true to a certain extent. Shinji is a legendary character in anime. The influence that this character had both in an insanely popular show and in the Japanese culture as a whole will be felt for years to come, even long after Anno quits making Evangelion. Yet, if a character truly is legendary (in the same sense that Beowulf, Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, James Bond, or Godzilla might be considered legendary characters in modern cultures), then this character will (and probably should) be played by various actors along the way. Everyone has their favorite actor who plays Holmes, but the character of Holmes is legendary enough to where fans become excited at somewhat different interpretations of that character, rather than making sure that the property never extends beyond Sir Arther Conan Doyle's original writings. Looking back at James Bond, it was interesting watching the studio slowly explore new actors to replace Sean Connery. (And yes, it was the movies that made James Bond a legendary character, and not the original books.) Sure, Connery still might be everyone's favorite Bond, but it's ridiculous to think that he could have played the role forever. In fact, if the studio didn't change actors when they did, there's a good chance that James Bond wouldn't have been as big of a cultural figure as he is now. The same thing was true with Godzilla in Japan. At some point this franchise will be helmed by entirely different filmmakers that have different takes on the legendary character. (No pun intended.) Sure, a lot of people like me still hold the original 1954 film as some sort of standard in the franchise, but the fact of the matter is that Godzilla would have ceased being culturally relevant a long time ago if King Kong vs Godzilla (highest grossing Godzilla movie ver made) or Godzilla vs Megalon (most widely viewed Godzilla movie in the United States) weren't made.

We're kinda seeing this happen right now in the States when it comes to Star Wars. Luke Skywalker is considered a legendary character in American pop culture, and he already has been portrayed by different actors in various animated TV series and video games. It's only a matter of time before someone other than Mark Hamill plays him in a live-action movie as well. When that happens, some people might say that this is disrespectful or that it's happening "too soon" or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that if they don't have another actor reprise his role, then Luke Skywalker will cease to become culturally relevant anymore.

The same thing applies (to a certain extent) with Spike Spencer or the original dub of Evangelion for English speaking audiences. Someday, someone other than Spike Spencer will play Shinji Ikari, and it'll be that change that helps the character remain culturally relevant in English speaking territories. (Megumi Ogata will be replaced in Japan one day too, unless Eva stops forever after the original filmmakers are dead. And Anno has be recorded saying that he wants Evangelion to have a longevity outside of himself one day.) Are we as nostalgic fans ready or willing to accept this yet?

[HARVEST]

Sometimes, the rights holders do not want to make a previous dub available; a famous example is Toei preventing Viz Media from releasing the Dic and Cloverway dubs of Sailor Moon. But it's very rare for the Japanese rights holder not to have the rights to an English language version (maybe something like Digimon The Movie where there's a bunch of licensed music?). I have no doubt Khara has the rights to the ADV and Manga Entertainment dubs, I just don't know if they didn't allow Netflix to use them or if Netflix didn't ask to use them. Given every language is being re-done, it feels more likely the decision was made by Netflix and that it's not some personal judgement from Khara regarding the quality of the previous English version.

Studio Ghibli also has the rights to the older Fox Searchlight Pictures/Streamline Pictures/Japan Airlines/Magnum Video/Tokuma Shoten English dubs of Castle in the Sky, My Neighbor Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service and Porco Rosso but they don't want to release them again since Disney already made their own new English dubs.
While Castle in the Sky's Magnum Video dub is a bit terrible, the Fox Searchlight dub of My Neighbor Totoro and the Streamline dub of Kiki are both really great.
GKIDS would've added these older English dubs but Ghibli themselves didn't allow it for some reason.

Also, Ghibli did have some rights issues with the UK English dub of Arrietty which had Saoirse Ronan and Tom Holland (in his very first role, way before he became Spider-Man) since they couldn't put it in the US GKIDS Blu-ray, but they did include it in the Japan-only International Edition Blu-ray. And StudioCanal released it on iTunes, which is something Studio Ghibli themselves would never allow (even with Disney, Studio Ghibli never allowed their films to be released digitally) but maybe StudioCanal is free to do it as long as it's their dub.

Grave of the Fireflies apparently also has some copyright mumbo-jumbo concerning the English dubs, they were never released in Japan even when most of the other Ghibli films do have English audio options on Blu-ray.
And it's also on iTunes in the US and UK, but only the dubbed version.