"A tragedy of the people possessed by Eva. I am also one of them."

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"A tragedy of the people possessed by Eva. I am also one of them."

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Postby salvad » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:02 pm

What does it mean to say that Misato and Ritsuko were possessed by the Eva? Does it have anything to do with being naked in front of Seele? Does it have anything to do with the Katsuragi experiment? Does it have to do with the sex Misato had to a non specified man (perhaps not Kaji) to stop being pure?

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Re: "A tragedy of the people possessed by Eva. I am also one of them."

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Postby Kvanu » Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:04 pm

View Original Postsalvad wrote:Does it have to do with the sex Misato had to a non specified man (perhaps not Kaji) to stop being pure?


What? :huh:

More likely, it has everything to do with how NERV mucked up Ritsuko's life for little reason, and same with Misato.
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Re: "A tragedy of the people possessed by Eva. I am also one of them."

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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:08 pm

Misato is referring to the Evas in a vague collective way (explaining the usual translation: possessed by "Eva"). We can probably assume she's using the word to refer to not merely the units themselves but to Project E as a whole. It may even go beyond that, since Misato has a tendency to conflate "past and present" versions of entities. For instance, she refers to Eva-01 as her father's enemy, even though Eva-01 is not Adam. More famously, she tells Shinji that her father was in Nerv and she joined Nerv for that reason, even though Nerv didn't even exist when the Katsuragi Expedition occurred, nor even by the time Misato enlisted -- that was Gehirn! So, really, Misato could well be using "tragedy of those possessed by Eva" to generically refer to the cursed existence that has beset this group of people from the very moment they started fucking with Adam and Lilith.

For my part, I can't hear the line anymore without reading it as a metatextual admission from Anno that he has been consumed by his work ("Eva") and knows it will curse him to the end of his days. :devil:

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Re: "A tragedy of the people possessed by Eva. I am also one of them."

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:27 pm

View Original PostKvanu wrote:everything to do with how NERV mucked up Ritsuko's life for little reason, and same with Misato.
Exactly so. They are both what might vulgarly be called "Christmas cakes" -- spinsters approaching the status of old maids -- who have given the best years of their lives to Project-E and its ramifications. They even look fairly bad when compared to Yui or Kyoko -- at age 29, Yui had been transmigrated a couple of years, with a five year old son, and Kyoko had a 3 year old daughter (but had yet to attempt a Contact Experiment).

View Original Postsalvad wrote:being naked in front of Seele
This is the thread you were looking for.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:47 pm

View Original Postsalvad wrote:Does it have to do with the sex Misato had to a non specified man (perhaps not Kaji) to stop being pure?


No it doesn't, but while we're on the subject, Kaji is Misato's only sexual partner.

In episode 20, after they bone, Misato makes a comment admitting to only smoking cigarettes after having sex...and that Kaji would be the only person to know of such a thing, hence admitting that she hasn't been with anyone else.

Her wanting to dirty herself likely is an allusion to the marathon sex that she and Kaji had while in college, and that anytime she has sex with Kaji, she's doing it to spite her father, whom Kaji reminds her of.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: "A tragedy of the people possessed by Eva. I am also one of them."

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Postby salvad » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:52 pm

Thanks guys.

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Postby Saint Eva » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:58 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:anytime she has sex with Kaji, she's doing it to spite her father, whom Kaji reminds her of.


But she also said she loved Kaji and enjoyed finding her father in him. Honestly her instrumentality I found the most confusing over what she really wants. Wants to hurt herself through sex but also doesn't wants to really hurt herself and wants someone to always sleep by her side?

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:05 pm

View Original PostSaint Eva wrote:But she also said she loved Kaji and enjoyed finding her father in him. Honestly her instrumentality I found the most confusing over what she really wants. Wants to hurt herself through sex but also doesn't wants to really hurt herself and wants someone to always sleep by her side?


Welcome to the wonderful world of human beings where it's not uncommon to hold mutually contradictory feelings without realising it.

Beyond that, there's a difference between having a huge amount of sex and having a fulfilling relationship with trust and security. It's not uncommon to find the former painful and the latter comforting.

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Re: "A tragedy of the people possessed by Eva. I am also one of them."

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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:12 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Her wanting to dirty herself likely is an allusion to the marathon sex that she and Kaji had while in college, and that anytime she has sex with Kaji, she's doing it to spite her father, whom Kaji reminds her of.

"I'm having sex with Kaji because he reminds me of you! Take that, Dad!"

:uhh: I'm not sure that's exactly how it works, even on a subconscious level.

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:19 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:"I'm having sex with Kaji because he reminds me of you! Take that, Dad!"

:uhh: I'm not sure that's exactly how it works, even on a subconscious level.


It doesn't, at least not so far as I see. But humans are masters of cognitive dissonance.

It's likely born out of that weird interplay of being angry at her dad and wanting his approval. And one hall of an Electra complex. Basically she can't independently parse all these emotions so they've coalesced into this bizarre hate crush we see.

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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:39 pm

If you listen to what she says in episode 25, too, her need to dirty herself is a reaction to the limitations placed upon her by BOTH parents. She's rebelling against her mom too. Is Guy Nacks indirectly implying that Misato ... Uh...

Well, it is NGE, so I guess Misato wanting to fuck her mom isn't COMPLETELY out of the question......

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Postby Guy Nacks » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:38 pm

Tbh, the implication of Misato wanting to fuck her mom never crossed my mind when writing my post. Actually, her mother never came up period in my train of thought about this topic because it's been about 7 years since I last watched the series and Misato's mother is somebody who receives so little fleshing out that I completely forgot about her.

Another theory about Misato wanting to "dirty" herself in the eyes of her father that I had was that it could be a case of survivor's guilt. Misato obviously loathed her father for never being around because he was away so often doing Gehirn shit, but at the end of the day he saved her life. It's possible that you could make a comparison to the opening hospital scene in EOE where Shinji is at the point where he feels such a sense of guilt over his killing of Kaworu that he masturbates over Asuka to justify the hatred that he feels for himself having survived that scenario. Misato "dirtying" herself through her sexuality could have a similar type of motivation, given the circumstances.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:23 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:If you listen to what she says in episode 25, too, her need to dirty herself is a reaction to the limitations placed upon her by BOTH parents. She's rebelling against her mom too. Is Guy Nacks indirectly implying that Misato ... Uh...

Well, it is NGE, so I guess Misato wanting to fuck her mom isn't COMPLETELY out of the question......


Inb4 Misato's conflicting love hate dealio with her father is born out of confusion and her sexuality and she can't bring herself to admit she's bi.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:37 am

View Original PostACGT-Samael wrote:Inb4 Misato's conflicting love hate dealio with her father is born out of confusion and her sexuality and she can't bring herself to admit she's bi.


There's a fairly popular fan theory that Misato and Ritsuko hooked up while in college together, drawn primarily from an illustration that Evangelion character designer Yoshiyuki Sadamoto did so it's possible for you to justify it in your own personal headcanon if you so choose.

However, there's no such indication in the main canon of the series/manga/rebuilds that such a hookup ever happened.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Reichu » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:30 am

The illustration was by Tsurumaki, in fact.

Stupidly enough, I'm now reminded of previous conversations I had about the rocket ship made of blocks (explicitly described as a phallic symbol) from Misato's case in episode 25. One of the uneasy and totally insane conclusions was that it pointed to little Misato feeling she needed to, on some level, stand in for her own father -- be a proxy for his presence so that her mom doesn't have to cry anymore. Misato also says she doesn't want to be like her mom, and in so doing she becomes kind of like her dad instead.

I'm not exactly sure how overidentifying with your dad for the sake of your mom later results in you wanting to sex up your dad, but in any case Misato's sexuality is totally fucked and subconscious motherfucking desires cannot be ruled out. :devil:

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:21 pm

I think it's fairly clear something has gone wrong with her thought process somewhere along the way one way or another, but I wouldn't be surprised if she developed the Electra stuff after Second Impact. Its fair to say her opinion of daddy dearest wasn't the greatest, and she all but admits his unambiguously fatherly act of saving her damn life made things really confusing for her.

And all of this happened while she was still going through puberty. Would not be surprised if all this emotional conflict coming at a time when her hormones started demanding attention and she had just gone through serious mental trauma caused her to associate certain things in... unusual ways.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:14 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:The illustration was by Tsurumaki, in fact.


Funny, I could have sworn the distinctive Y.S. initials were somewhere on that image, but whaddaya know, they aren't there.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996


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