3.33 Tonal Shift

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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3.33 Tonal Shift

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Postby BigSkeez0195 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:06 pm

I spent the weekend re watching the shows and rebuild movies. The shift in tone has always been a part of the show. You see things get progressively darker as the series comes to an end. Which is understandable. The rebuild movies seemed to do a better job of keeping the serious and humorous moments mixed up until the climax of 2.22. But 3.33 seems to be void of any sense of humor and fan service. The closest thing we get to humor is the interaction between Asuka and Mari.

Without getting into the many opinions people had about the third film. Do you think that they will address this in final? Because i felt that those lighter moments helped with how psychologically draining Evangelion can be in general. You can certainly say that 3.33 is supposed to be dark. It does a fine job of forming a pit in my stomach just seeing the events play out. I really hope that some of the humor is brought back. I wouldn't be surprised either way.

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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:04 pm

Seeing as how Q is only the first half of what was originally going to be one big finale, it makes sense that it would feel like some stuff is missing (which I still think was a stupid idea, but I understand why they did it). There are a few lighthearted moments here and there, Shinji barging into Rei Q's room and no doubt having horrible flashbacks to doing the exact same thing in Jo, Mari just generally being useless and drinking fucking juiceboxes during a mission with the potential to end the world if her and Asuka fail- there is a bit, but it's quite clear that Q is half of a two hour film stretched out to be an hour and a half.

On the topic of the shift, I definitely feel like all three New Theatrical films have an overall more consistent serious tone than at least the first half of Neon Genesis, especially the second and third acts of Jo and Ha. Excluding a lot of Pen-Pen's stuff and cutting Hikari, Touji, and Kensuke almost entirely seems to help with this stronger focus on the central characters, but I do feel like it could've been better.

TL;DR, New Theatrical is a trainwreck, and completely different than what it was planned to be originally (a condensed retelling of Neon Genesis with various small differences and changes, giving life to Anno's original vision with no time restraints and using new tech), and as such, has gone completely off the rails.
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Postby Cybermat47 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:09 pm

If anything, there’ll probably be even less humour in 3.0+1.0. The humour was completely sucked out of NGE’s last few episodes and EOE, so chances are that RoE will follow the same path.
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Re: 3.33 Tonal Shift

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Postby Joseki » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:35 pm

As long as Mari has screen time there will be humor, the more screen time she has the more humor there will be.

There's also the chance of AUs with humor.

View Original PostAdamMalkobitch wrote:(a condensed retelling of Neon Genesis with various small differences and changes, giving life to Anno's original vision with no time restraints and using new tech)


This is not true, in fact one of the first things they clarified in 2006 was that the Rebuild project wasn't a retelling of NGE.

December 2006 - Newtype USA

"The new story takes place in the same period as the 1995 TV series, but the plot is completely different," producer Toshimichi Otsuki elaborates. "This isn't a remake or a quick fix. It's a totally new production."
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Re: 3.33 Tonal Shift

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Postby Guy Nacks » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:41 pm

View Original PostBigSkeez0195 wrote:Without getting into the many opinions people had about the third film. Do you think that they will address this in final? Because i felt that those lighter moments helped with how psychologically draining Evangelion can be in general. You can certainly say that 3.33 is supposed to be dark. It does a fine job of forming a pit in my stomach just seeing the events play out. I really hope that some of the humor is brought back. I wouldn't be surprised either way.


There are no jokes or humor in the original series beyond episode 18, with the exception of the AU sequence in the final episode, but by that point, most of the audience is too mindfucked to laugh or smile at anything. In fact, the final "joke" moment of the show is when Asuka sweatdrops when Hikari tells her what she likes about Toji. It's interesting because it's literally the most blatant anime-esque joke trope in the entire show and it comes less than 10 minutes before the horrifying Eva-03 incident.

View Original PostJoseki wrote:This is not true, in fact one of the first things they clarified in 2006 was that the Rebuild project wasn't a retelling of NGE.

December 2006 - Newtype USA

"The new story takes place in the same period as the 1995 TV series, but the plot is completely different," producer Toshimichi Otsuki elaborates. "This isn't a remake or a quick fix. It's a totally new production."





*watches 1.0*

Otsuki might wanna walk that statement back just a bit.
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Postby Joseki » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:51 pm

Even if most of 1.0 is recycled material from NGE 1-6 the plot is different enough to be defined as "different". Kaworu wakes up on the Moon talking weird shit, Misato takes Shinji inside a giant brain-like structure to see Lilith, Gendo casually talks about brainwashing Shinji...
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Re: 3.33 Tonal Shift

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Postby Cybermat47 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:45 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:Even if most of 1.0 is recycled material from NGE 1-6 the plot is different enough to be defined as "different". Kaworu wakes up on the Moon talking weird shit, Misato takes Shinji inside a giant brain-like structure to see Lilith, Gendo casually talks about brainwashing Shinji...


Yep. It’s part of Anno’s mindfuck - make us think that NTE is just a retelling with the first film, seriously change the plot with 2.0, and throw out everything with 3.0.

When I first watched NTW, the changes threw me for a loop and, in 3.0, shocked me. And that’s because I was expecting it to be like NGE.
Last edited by Cybermat47 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3.33 Tonal Shift

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Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:02 am

View Original PostAdamMalkobitch wrote:Seeing as how Q is only the first half of what was originally going to be one big finale, it makes sense that it would feel like some stuff is missing

I think when Q was made the idea of one combined finale was dropped long ago.
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Postby BigSkeez0195 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:45 am

I guess it all seemed too sudden for me. I understand that the story isnt supposed to get any more lighthearted. Maybe what the feeling im getting is less about the humor and more the lack of substance of the characters in Q. Its clear the NTE story is more focused around Shinji than the rest of the characters. But they even spent some time with conversations between Asuka and Misato. Asukas only appearances are when she is either helping or fighting Shinji.

I think i'm just realizing all the things wrong with Q XD as cheesy as these moments can be, they help contrast the darker things happening.

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:27 am

2.0 did a fair bit of humor but like in the original, that went right out the window once the Unit 03 activation test went south and carried through til the end and into 3.0. A darker and more serious tone was needed in the third movie because of the way 2.0 ended, with the aborted Near-Third Impact laying waste to Tokyo-3, Nerv's Evas and pilots being reduced to one and Seele beginning to show its hand.

Despite the apocalyptic setting, I find 3.0 much less bleak than the final leg of NGE and EoE. Shinji's in a bad place, but Rei survived, although currently out to lunch in Unit 01, the other characters are standing and fighting instead of being broken wrecks, and Seele and Nerv don't seem as unbeatable as they used to.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:54 am

I feel like the world of 3.0 is pretty horrible.
Misato doesn't seem like she has much joy left.

The last part of NGE felt sad to me because of things that were lost, in 3.0 it seems like that has been accepted, it's pretty depressing.
I don't think one feels worse than the other. They feel sad in different ways.
The one thing that gave me hope though was Asuka's attitude. So that's something different from NGE.
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Postby Sachi » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:00 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:Despite the apocalyptic setting, I find 3.0 much less bleak than the final leg of NGE and EoE. Shinji's in a bad place, but Rei survived, although currently out to lunch in Unit 01, the other characters are standing and fighting instead of being broken wrecks, and Seele and Nerv don't seem as unbeatable as they used to.

I agree with this entirely. NGE's descent arc feels utter and complete, and it's pretty amazing how it's able to turn on its own head in the last moments of each ending into something positive and hopeful. 3.0's bleakness is made with a clear light at the end of the tunnel for the audience, and a more obvious dynamic between the good guys and bad guys (with the good guys actually equipped to do something, unlike in the original). The tone of 3.0+1.0 seems like it can go nowhere but more and more positive.
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Postby BigSkeez0195 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:12 am

I will agree that compared to the end of NGE that this series has kept things all around lighter. But that may just be due to the fact that we missed so much in that 14 year period without third impact happening like in EoE. We can assume that Kaji is dead at this point. And that Misato has had years to dwell and assume that Shinji is in some way responsible for it (not necessarily directly). Which is why her attitude is much bleaker than it ever was in NGE. I am happy that Asuka didn't or hasn't developed in to the same character in NGE. Its nice to contrast instead of repeat her defeated and depressed state. Its seems to be more that they are trying to change the tropes of characters from the NGE series, which is inviting.

The end of Q def seems to bring a more upbeat motion then the entire film had up to that point. Its just sad to see Shinji finally embrace some form of positive attitude at the end of 2.22 just to see it all out the window in Q. Lets hope with Rei picking up the SDAT player that she can remember her former self and that the band can finally get back together. The ends of NGE and EoE are open to interpretation for whether or not they can be viewed in a positive manner. But hopefully with the changes to the story line and characters in NTE that they have a more definitive ending

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Re: 3.33 Tonal Shift

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:54 am

eoe's ending is much more hopeful than 3.33's lal.

-> One has humanity virtually extinct, the other has all of life getting the option to come back.
-> One has Shinji finding the will to live, the other has Shinji in the nihlistic state he was in prior to EOE.

And Asuka's attitude?

One has Asuka kicking around and forcefully dragging Shinji, the other has Asuka responding to strangulation with kindness.
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Postby pwhodges » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:15 am

Of course, one story is finished and the other is not, so such comparisons are not necessarily valid.
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Postby Blockio » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:04 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Of course, one story is finished and the other is not, so such comparisons are not necessarily valid.

The better comparison would be Q vs Episode 24
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Postby ACGT-Samael » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:25 am

3.0 really does feel like it got very heavily rewritten from the original plan since it basically bears no resemblance to the preview from 2.22, and that exacerbates the feeling of tonal shifting since everything feels so out of left field.

View Original PostBlockio wrote:The better comparison would be Q vs Episode 24


In that case I'd argue Q is more optimistic than 24 since Shinji isn't despondent, Asuka isn't bedridden and Rei-Q seems like she'll try to step out of her predecessor's shadow.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:36 pm

View Original PostACGT-Samael wrote:In that case I'd argue Q is more optimistic than 24 since Shinji isn't despondent


I could not disagree more and I have no clue how you think the kid, who is borderline catatonic at the end of the film, is in a better place than he was at the end of episode 24. In addition to indirectly causing Kaworu's death, he has been made to believe that he is the DIRECT cause of the ruination of the entire world...this is not something that NGE!Shinji was burdened with.
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And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: 3.33 Tonal Shift

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:41 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:I could not disagree more and I have no clue how you think the kid, who is borderline catatonic at the end of the film, is in a better place than he was at the end of episode 24. In addition to indirectly causing Kaworu's death, he has been made to believe that he is the DIRECT cause of the ruination of the entire world...this is not something that NGE!Shinji was burdened with.


Because the Shinji at home end of Episode 24 was so despondent he was already veering towards suicide. Look at the start of EoE, which immediately follows on from 24. He tried to drown himself, then became so dejected he wouldn't physically move.

Shinji at the end of 3.33 took far less coaxing to get up and start walking, and here he actually has his fellow pilots to push him off in a direction of action, rather than sit and rot.

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Re: 3.33 Tonal Shift

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:14 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Of course, one story is finished and the other is not, so such comparisons are not necessarily valid.

tell that to those making those comparisons
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