Rebuild outside of Evageeks: Many reactions

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Rebuild outside of Evageeks: Many reactions

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Postby BigSkeez0195 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:15 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:At the superficial level, the current state on /a/ is roughly that 1.x is forgotten, 2.x is regarded as pandering to Reifags, and 3.x an overcorrection for Asukafags and Kaworufags that came about because Anno felt that his waifu and husubando had been losing badly to Team Blue.

While there may be some occasional shreds of insight, most of the talk is tribal clashes between the anti-Shikinami and anti-Rei factions.


:lol: :lol: :lol: great terminology

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Postby Guy Nacks » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:52 pm

The difference between NGE and Rebuild is that I rewatched the series/EOE at least 4 times and only watched the movies twice.

I don't really care about seeing 1.0-3.0 ever again, but would like to rewatch the series again on occasion because it seems less plebeian.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:46 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:At the superficial level, the current state on /a/ is roughly that 1.x is forgotten, 2.x is regarded as pandering to Reifags, and 3.x an overcorrection for Asukafags and Kaworufags that came about because Anno felt that his waifu and husubando had been losing badly to Team Blue.

While there may be some occasional shreds of insight, most of the talk is tribal clashes between the anti-Shikinami and anti-Rei factions.

There's also Textwall-kun, a hyper devoted Rei fanatic who is mortally offended by Rei Q and tries to derail Eva threads with their tldr conspiracy theories about Anno's spiteful vendetta against The One True Rei and her devotees. I wonder if they're still around? :lol:
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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:50 am

I think I saw them this month lol.
One of my first times reading Eva stuff on 4chan.
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Postby Blockio » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:35 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:There's also Textwall-kun, a hyper devoted Rei fanatic who is mortally offended by Rei Q and tries to derail Eva threads with their tldr conspiracy theories about Anno's spiteful vendetta against The One True Rei and her devotees. I wonder if they're still around? :lol:

Even tho I am a big fan of Rei 2 as well, I know those people and I am still not sure if I should laugh, feel sad or rage at them. So yes, they are still around, and its not a good thing
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:40 am

On their own 1.0 and 2.0 are decent films. Decent because the majority of the writing and characterization has been copied from a show with fantastic characterization and writing. Whenever it tries to do something original, we get a drop in quality(mari, goku Shinji). Then 3.0 NTE tries to be orginal, and fails spectacularly leaving us with a Micheal Bay flick with shoehorned story twists/expectation subversions that at best distract from the lack of depth or development present in any of these events.

At it's best, the NTE is unorginal, at it's most original, it's bad.
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Re: Rebuild outside of Evageeks: Many reactions

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Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:50 am

goku Shinji

?
If you mean Shinji at the end of 2.0, that's nothing different from what Eva has always done, playing with mecha genre expectations (and it worked too).

Whenever it tries to do something original, we get a drop in quality

I'd argue the Ramiel fight is overall better in Rebuild, the whole cooking subplot was new and would have fit pretty nicely in the NGE action arc, most action sequences were new and really good, same goes for new creature design, like the berserk Eva-02.
Mari is just a joke character in one scene. Giving her more importance than that is buying into the marketing of the film, that was trying to sell it to otakus with a "glasses girl" (I don't know if that's an actual term lol).

3.0 NTE tries to be orginal, and fails spectacularly

How so? It treated new issues (still relevant to Eva's themes) and used the film itself very well for that, equaling the sudden change and unexpected twists to Shinji's isolation, confusion and "homesickness".

leaving us with a Micheal Bay flick

Does action equal Michael Bay now?
Bay wishes he could do action as well as anything in 3.0.

with shoehorned story twists

Which ones?

lack of depth or development present in any of these events

The film has kept people talking for five years, and I stilldiscover new things about it.
Lack of depth looks different to me.
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Postby Joseki » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:12 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:On their own 1.0 and 2.0 are decent films. Decent because the majority of the writing and characterization has been copied from a show with fantastic characterization and writing. Whenever it tries to do something original, we get a drop in quality(mari, goku Shinji). Then 3.0 NTE tries to be orginal, and fails spectacularly leaving us with a Micheal Bay flick with shoehorned story twists/expectation subversions that at best distract from the lack of depth or development present in any of these events.

At it's best, the NTE is unorginal, at it's most original, it's bad.



Yeah, "NTE is good only when it copies NGE and every single thing that changes it changes for worse" is a common scream on the internet.
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Postby Blockio » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:31 pm

View Original PostJoseki wrote:Yeah, "NTE is good only when it copies NGE and every single thing that changes it changes for worse" is a common scream on the internet.

Pretty much, yeah.

To the point where even brilliantly-executed scenes like the Tunniel fight are dismissed as completely irrelevant and nothing but fanservice. I am just sick of it to the point where felt the need to make an entire thread about that very fight and how it is relevant to the story, although I don't think anyone who thinks the fight is unnecessary even bothered reading it
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Postby BobBQ » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:16 pm

A little less omnislashing, please.

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:06 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:Yeah, "NTE is good only when it copies NGE and every single thing that changes it changes for worse" is a common scream on the internet.

This is a common tactic to avoid addressing arguments, and the most common response I've gotten from NTE apologists.

IE, Me: -> NTE lacks character development
Response: -> People don't like NTE because of their waifus!
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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:09 am

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Pretty much, yeah.

To the point where even brilliantly-executed scenes like the Tunniel fight are dismissed as completely irrelevant and nothing but fanservice. I am just sick of it to the point where felt the need to make an entire thread about that very fight and how it is relevant to the story, although I don't think anyone who thinks the fight is unnecessary even bothered reading it


I read your thread and it warrants the same response I made earlier. It establishes changes, changes that are made for the sake of change, not for adding quality to the story.

"you can add mechanical parts!" is nice but is rather worthless from a storytelling perspective.

All you do is outline some ways NTE changes mechanics, not how any of this offers anything to the original story. It's just noise, like a Micheal Bay flick.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:13 am

Well the “changes” aren’t meant to offer anything to the original story (NGE) because the filmmakers have explicitly branched off to tell a new story (Rebuild). Characters and themes that were central to one version are not as important or even present in the other. Both versions, of course, share A LOT of similiarties but they’re not the same story nor should they be.

You may not like Rebuild or the new directions the story & characters have gone (of course why spend your valuable time talking about entertainment you actively don’t enjoy or even hate is a form of internet sickness I have never understood... I don’t spend hours of my free time talking about why The Dark Tower was a terrible adaptation of the book series) and you can fully argue your reason for why it doesn’t connect to you personally - though “it’s not the same experience” has never been a valid ground to base a thesis on - but it’s certainly foolish to tell someone else they’re wrong when they state why they enjoy said entertainment out. What may be frivolous or empty to you can have a whole other response to someone else and connect with them on a very deep level. You can disagree with that and voice said opinion but you can’t tell someone they’re wrong like it’s an empirical fact.
We’re not talking science, math or moral scenarios where there are actual right & wrong answers. We’re talking entertainment. You can argue why said work doesn’t succeed and you can try to make people see why but you can’t tell people it’s a fact. It’s not a fact. It’s a viewpoint.

Conversations should be exchanges. Give and takes. Listening. Especially conversations about art. And if you don’t feel it’s art and is just fluff then great, that’s a discussion. But, using snarky trollish terms like NTE apologists, as if these ultimately harmless movies have somehow committed a crime and we’re protecting them from jail, shows you’re not willing to actually engage in the discussion. You have your side. Anyone who doesn’t share your viewpoint is the enemy and they need to be taken down.

Eh. Maybe I’d be willing to discuss this issue further but I can see where it would go. You’re the kid who since he came to this forum has really only had one form of conversation and it boils down to “Oh you think this way on this topic? Yeah, you’re wrong. Fuck you. You’re dumb. I win. You lose. Yeah, this was a contest.”.

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:12 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Well the “changes” aren’t meant to offer anything to the original story (NGE) because the filmmakers have explicitly branched off to tell a new story (Rebuild).

I just wonder why people find this so hard to understand or accept.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:41 am

I seriously wonder why many self-professed “NGE fans” disliked Eva Q so much. I mean, as far as storytelling tactics and techniques go, Q isn’t that much different from Eps 21-24. Shinji learns messed up stuff about Rei, most everything else around him is still terribly confusing and further alienating, none of the other chicks want to bang Shinji mostly due to his own behavior, Kaworu is charmingly inviting as always, and everyone who still showed warmth to Shinji by that point in the series dies in the end anyway. As for the filmmaking techniques, the animation in Eva Q is just as good of not better than NGE’s final few episodes, the cinematography is solid and reveals introspective moments as always, both the structural and momentary editing is stellar and followable despite its break-neck speeds at times, the exposition reveals feel natural, unforced, and even betray changes in character development along the way, both for the listener and the speaker, and both make the audience feel terrible when you’re done watching it.

The treatment of Shinji in Eva Q is especially something I’d like to focus on, because in both versions he’s not treated very well and Misato especially doesn’t do anything to help him out of his emotional funk. The only real difference is that in NGE Shinji is chained to the Eva against his will, and in Q Shinji is forbidden from the Eva against his will. His life is still threatened directly by his Nerv/Wille officers either way. In NGE Nerv will follow Shinji until the day he dies (or until they feel that Shinji needs to die due to being a security risk) while Misato couldn’t be bothered with that fact anymore one way or the other. The whole “girls aren’t wet for Shinji” or “Misato is unfair to Shinji” explanation isn’t satisfactory either for Q because NGE didn’t provide a viable alternative to those aspects of Q towards the end of its series either.

It can’t be because of the tonal shift either, since many (if not all) fans of NGE were waiting for that other shoe to drop in the first place. Many NGE fans praised Eva Q for being true to NGE’s remembered tone and emotional darkness after its release.

The only tangible storytelling difference I can see is that NTE is a tad more emotionally stable than NGE. NGE is unpredictable and will go on a devistating tirade on its audience in seconds. NTE, by contrast, is more methodical in its presentation of its emotional arcs, building up to them slowly and steadily. It doesn’t make NTE “happier” than NGE by any measure, but it isn’t as much of a reckless emotional rollercoaster ride either. But, even then, I fail to see how a trend towards more emotional stability in the narrative is detrimental to Evangelion as a narrative brand or franchise.

Someone please help me understand this.
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Rei IV » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:26 am

I'm not a NTE apologist. I just prefer the movies to original NGE, it's simple as that. Sure, the original series may have more "depth" to them but ultimately, I like how the films have completely deviated from NGE by the end of 2.0/Ha, for better or worse. I can concede there are aspects of the NTE that are indisputably inferior to the 1995 anime series (and its movies) but really, IMHO, NGE is really treated like a some sacred cow around here. I always thought even if it's original that it had its own fair share of problems with the narrative and characterization. The films make it worse because they're condescending 26 something episodes and addition to making new material but I can totally live with the later.
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Postby ArvisTaljik » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:53 am

What I don't understand is how so many people out there seem to want the Rebuilds to actually be "NGE HD Remastered."

NGE is complete. It's done. It's finished. It is its own comleted product. If you want the NGE story, then go watch NGE. No one is stopping you nor is anyone requiring you to watch Rebuild. Last I checked, no one was standing outside the movie theater or in your local DVD/Bluray retailer with a gun pointed at your head forcing you to watch something and enjoy it against your will.

Never has Rebuild ever claimed to be NGE. The titles are different, the characters are different, the Evas are different and ZOMGWTFBBQ the second and third installments are TOTALLY different. It is by its very nature different and separate from NGE. NGE is NGE and Rebuild is Rebuild.

Anyone who wants Rebuild to BE NGE should just stay away from Rebuild. It will never be NGE because NGE is already NGE.

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:20 pm

You guys need to realize that people like things for different reasons.

I seriously wonder why many self-professed “NGE fans” disliked Eva Q so much


I want to use this as an example. NGE was primarily about the characters. The plot such as it was was a thing that kinda happened from time to time. Look no further than the TV ending where they dropped all pretense (along with the plot) and focused solely on the characters. A lot of people like stories that focus on the characters. And for someone like that Rebuild isn't going to have any hook for them regardless if it has Evangelion in its name. Now the important thing to remember here is this doesn't make them lesser Evangelion fans. Rebuild just isn't something that is going to connect with them and there is nothing wrong with that.

So how about we all accept that fandom isn't some simple thing and people aren't always going to agree and leave it at that?
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:50 pm

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I seriously wonder why many self-professed “NGE fans” disliked Eva Q so much.

This seems like a heavy generalization of everyone in the fandom who dislike either Q or the Rebuilds themselves. It's akin to the Star Wars fandom and how so many of their number "hate" the prequels and "love" the sequels and anyone who likes the prequels and dislikes the sequels is thought of as less than. Just because you're in a fandom doesn't mean you have to love every bit of it. There are parts of every fandom that aren't fully liked by anyone. Take the hospital scene for instance. Am I any less of a fan for wishing that scene never existed? Would the fandom be better without that scene? In my opinion yes, there are other ways to show how far Shinji is from sanity and humanity in that moment. However others do not share my opinion and I don't consider them "lesser" fans for it. Do I enjoy the Rebuilds? Not as much as the original work, especially with how much Asuka has been changed with little backstory to see just how different she is from Soryu, and how little the other characters factor into the story, leaving Shinji to carry the whole thing with assistance from everyone else. Perhaps the story will get better with its final chapter and will somehow bring the work to the level of NGE, or perhaps it will be some crazy, fanserviced filled finale that undermines the story Rebuild was trying to tell, we honestly don't know.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:57 pm

@ Anonymous_EvaFan: I don’t mean people who just dislike NTE in general. I understand that if people don’t like Asuka or Ritsuko being reclassified as a supporting cast member and getting lest development as a result that NTE just isn’t going to be their cup of tea. (I still think Shinji’s character development is great in NTE, but he’s the main character, so that’s expected for an Anno film.) I’m more curious about those who are fans of NGE, have been on board for Eva Jo and Ha for what they were, but suddenly felt that Eva Q was somehow bad and terrible. This confuses me.

@DarkBluePhoenix Thanks for your input. Do you feel that Eva Q was an overall bad movie? Or do you feel that Eva Q just doesn’t provide a good stopping point before Shin Eva continues the developing narrative?


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