3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby Kisses4Katie » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:25 pm

Hello all-
I am new to the board but a reader for years and a fan since day one :)

I had a thought on which role 3 of the original women chose as 3I happened. The women I'm referring to are Naoko Akagi (who I still suspect as the soul inside of Unit 00.. Even though it has basically been proven it is not her, yes?), Kyoko Soryu, and Yui Ikari.

As we know by dialogue, when Ritsuko tried to destroy NERV before Gendo initiated 3I, Naoko chose her role as a woman and picked Gendo over her daughter. But the scientist in her still might have lost out to the mother in her.
When Asuka fights her final battle, she is finally made aware of her mother's presence and I feel that this is Kyoko choosing Asuka over her other roles. Even though Yui is made to seem the quintessential mother figure (parallel to Lillith), I feel in the end it is Asuka's mother who comes to choose this aspect of herself to save her daughter.
Finally we have Yui. Regardless of how she has been seen as saintly, I believe a lot of her motives were self serving considering how all of this was set up for poor Shinji from the start. In the end, Yui gets her wish as a monument to Mankind, forever proving their existence. Essentially she chose being a scientist over being a mother.

I recently rewatched all the episodes, but I view the movies about once a year. Rewatching earlier episodes so much later had opened my eyes to a lot of foreshadowing and parallel scenes which made the experience even better. This is just my thought on one of those parallel themes. What do you think?

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby ElKaizerX » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:47 am

I'll second your thoughts.

Naoko - The Woman

Yui -The Scientist

Kyoko - The Mother

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby BigSkeez0195 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:25 pm

There's a lot of speculation on who's soul resides in Unit 00. From what i understand it is a previous version of Rei. The Naoko idea is certainly a convincing argument based on Unit 00's action during its first activation test.(punching through the Windows) It could either be Rei showing anger towards Gendo or Ritsuko for locking her into becoming the Soul for the Unit. it would be a pretty shady move in Ritsukos part to lock her own mothers soul into the Eva. Im not sure how much influence Gendo has in the decision making or if he would even know how that process works. So a version of Rei being locked into the Eva makes the most sense.

Ive always like the way that Anno is able to tie things into a nice little bow. Not all things but when he does its certainly a work of art. That is a great breakdown!

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:39 pm

I have actually started a massive write up on this myself, the main difference being that I'm focusing on the Holy Trinity and trinities in general. They show up everywhere in the series. The ones already mentioned of course, and Rei I, Rei II, Rei III; Rei, Kaworu, Yui; Adam, Lilith, Unit-01 w/S2 engine; Shinji, Asuka, Rei; SEELE, NERV/Gendo, Yui; Ritsuko, Misato, Kaji; Fyutsuki, Gendo, Yui; Unit-01/Yui, Shinji, Lance of Longinus (forming the perfect union and becoming the Tree of Life); GNR, the Tree of Life, and the Seed of Lilith/Dark Moon refilled with humans turned LCL; etc.

I keep discovering all kinds of things just trying to go through it all, it's really quite interesting and very entertaining.

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby ElKaizerX » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:49 pm

View Original PostStrokeMeGoat wrote:I keep discovering all kinds of things just trying to go through it all, it's really quite interesting and very entertaining.


Can't agree more on this sentiment. I'm pretty intrigued by the Trinity angle not just in relation to Eva, but our species as a whole. Even in dualistic spiritual movements I've noticed a hidden third aspect usually in the form of harmony/balance. Hell even quantum mechanics plays around with the trinity concept by introducing the idea of uncertainty between two values. It does seem like Anno et al. devoted some thought to the philosophy of the trinity in relation to quantum mechanics too given the "spooky action" easter egg and other trinity examples you rightly brought up.

I don't think it's to far a stretch to say the whole show might actually be conveying to the audience that: "There are no deities, no supernatural occurrences, just humanity, our stories, and a universe filled with uncertainty, but hey, that's okay cause you know what kid? You're not alone if you choose not to be."

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:28 am

View Original PostElKaizerX wrote:Can't agree more on this sentiment. I'm pretty intrigued by the Trinity angle not just in relation to Eva, but our species as a whole. Even in dualistic spiritual movements I've noticed a hidden third aspect usually in the form of harmony/balance. Hell even quantum mechanics plays around with the trinity concept by introducing the idea of uncertainty between two values. It does seem like Anno et al. devoted some thought to the philosophy of the trinity in relation to quantum mechanics too given the "spooky action" easter egg and other trinity examples you rightly brought up.

Me too man... actually, I haven't thought about or watched NGE in almost a year, and part of what got me to start posting here again after my little hiatus was exactly this proclivity for trinities and pairings of three of all kinds. Nikola Tesla was obsessed with 3 (along with 6 and 9 in particular) in terms of mathematical patterns that emerge involving it. Then you have concepts for ourselves like the heart, mind, and the soul. Then the superstitions surrounding deaths coming in threes, stuff like the Id/Ego/Super Ego, and the list goes on. I've been trying to at least make some progress tracking down the source of its prolific nature in human mythologies, religions, institutional structures, and the psyche but haven't really gotten any where with it.

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby ElKaizerX » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:07 am

View Original PostStrokeMeGoat wrote:I've been trying to at least make some progress tracking down the source of its prolific nature in human mythologies, religions, institutional structures, and the psyche but haven't really gotten any where with it.


Kind of interesting that our current journey is quite the same, but almost flipped. A recent rewatch of NGE nudged my interest in the trinity and gave me the kick I needed to get back to some personal projects I took a big step back from.

3's power over us is pretty fascinating and the closest abstract concept I felt that came close to being a god. Not your typical idea for a god, but it seems to unconsciously control our lives and in a weird way, the universe in many ways. The closest most general way I could think of for the application of 3 to, in a way, explain "it all" was helped by the rock, scissors, paper loop needing at least three data points to effectively create uncertainty and particle/physical interaction. You can have one of something, which I guess would be chaos, infinite, but like the analogy in ep 26 of Shinji free falling it lacks definition. You need at least one other thing as reference for the initial thing like the line that was drawn for Shinji. But two things automatically derives a third thing. It seems you always need at least two things (data points) which always produces a third thing (data point) in order to define anything. It kind of pointed out to me that dualities are just trinities in disguise.

Point. Reference point. Definition.

Beginning. End. Middle.

Rock. Scissors. Paper.

1 particle. 2 particle. Interaction.

Material (particle/wave existence). Immaterial (imagination). Brain/Mind

Certainty. Uncertainty. Choice.

Nothing. Something. Anything

Action. Interaction. Reaction.

Potential. Reflection. Expression.

Void/Chaos. Light/Energy. Creation.

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby Kisses4Katie » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:27 am

Ive always like the way that Anno is able to tie things into a nice little bow. Not all things but when he does its certainly a work of art. That is a great breakdown!

Thank you for your input as well. I agree overall that we have been mostly shown that a Rei soul is inside Unit 00.

Of course I still get stuck in head cannon sometimes- I still like to think ONLY Asuka and Shinji returned from 3I :nyao:

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby Kisses4Katie » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:29 am

View Original PostElKaizerX wrote:Rock. Scissors. Paper.



I love the bit about Rock Paper Scissors- this is very well thought out and I hafta say I agree!

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby Kisses4Katie » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:38 am

View Original PostBigSkeez0195 wrote:it would be a pretty shady move in Ritsukos part to lock her own mothers soul into the Eva.


I was gonna say Ritsuko seems shady, but then it dawned on me- when she wants to feel close to her mother, she lays her hand on the Magi's central brain. IF Naoko was in Unit 00, and Ritsuko was aware, then it would fit that it is the soul of Rei I, because why get close to a computer when Mom's right there? Thanks for helping me get to that thought!
On a small note, I got the feeling watching the show that maybe a soul could be transferred after death.. But I could have just read too much into some of the scenes.
Thank you! :)

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:21 am

View Original PostKisses4Katie wrote:I still like to think ONLY Asuka and Shinji returned from 3I :nyao:
That was my reading too, while trying to reconcile EoE with the TV ending -- where all the Instrumentality constructs of the post-human race waft off into the cosmos like stardust, leaving the two pilots in their own special damnation in Anti-Eden, the wilderness at the end of the world.
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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby Blockio » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:25 pm

View Original PostElKaizerX wrote:I'll second your thoughts.

Naoko - The Woman

Yui -The Scientist

Kyoko - The Mother

I would switch out Yui and Kyoko, seeing how Yui appears to be more maternal, while Kyoko was all about her work (if I remember correctly... not entirely sure tho, since the Shinji Ikari Raising project has kinda overwritten my memory on some of the details in the series)
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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby ElKaizerX » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:56 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:That was my reading too, while trying to reconcile EoE with the TV ending -- where all the Instrumentality constructs of the post-human race waft off into the cosmos like stardust, leaving the two pilots in their own special damnation in Anti-Eden, the wilderness at the end of the world.


I do like the Anti-Eden label. It fits with the anti-religion themes of the show. And religion not just in our world's mythologies and ideologies but more in terms of divining the imaginary like toxic fandom can do for story franchises, and relationships.

It is interesting that EoTV Shinji realizes he should try to work to love himself so he can better connect with others and accepts complementation while EoE Shinji seems to come to the same conclusion but is portrayed as rejecting complementation. Maybe complementation doesn't actually mean the same thing as instrumentality. Given, thematically, both endings represent the idea of CG Jung's individuation where a person should accept and overcome instead of bury their shortcomings and 'darkness' (Shadow) to achieve a fuller Self, basically loving themselves, and the two endings just visual represent that idea from different perspectives (which has been debated ad nauseum).

Relating back to the Trinity discussion I think one of the bigger overall Trinities for NGE is the Creator, Creation, and Audience. I'm apart of the interpretation that NGE is by design a meta commentary on storytelling (or messages in a more broad) and it's positive and negative influence on the human condition.

By naming the humanoid robots, Evangelion, the Lilin are literally fighting Adam's "messengers" with their own "Divine Messages," creating a war of messages/ideologies, which ends up being darkly humorous given the revelation that the Lilin are categorized as Angels ("messengers") themselves. It might be a stretch but I think they Anno et el where using the Evangelions to self reflectively represent the NGE franchise, their gospel/message/human work.

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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby Blockio » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:42 pm

View Original PostElKaizerX wrote:I do like the Anti-Eden label. It fits with the anti-religion themes of the show. And religion not just in our world's mythologies and ideologies but more in terms of divining the imaginary like toxic fandom can do for story franchises, and relationships.

By naming the humanoid robots, Evangelion, the Lilin are literally fighting Adam's "messengers" with their own "Divine Messages," creating a war of messages/ideologies, which ends up being darkly humorous given the revelation that the Lilin are categorized as Angels ("messengers") themselves. It might be a stretch but I think they Anno et el where using the Evangelions to self reflectively represent the NGE franchise, their gospel/message/human work.

Another ting to add to that theory: "Eva" is the German name of Eve. You know, as in biblical Adam's wife
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Re: 3 Aspects - woman, mother, and scientist in EOE

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Postby ElKaizerX » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:12 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:Another ting to add to that theory: "Eva" is the German name of Eve. You know, as in biblical Adam's wife


Very true. I actually enjoy how they were able to use wordplay of the Greek word for gospel to also be used for the concepts behind the biblical character of Eve. Anno et al certainly come off like they did their homework.


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