Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby AdamMalkovitch » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:57 pm

Why are they only just attacking in 2015? It seems awfully convenient that NERV has just gotten ready to defend Lilith when they decide to stop loafing around and do the one thing they were designed to do.
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Re: Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:30 pm

Probably just took fifteen years for them to mature in their eggs after receiving their souls at Second Impact.

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Re: Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:58 pm

Reichu wrote:Probably just took fifteen years for them to mature in their eggs after receiving their souls at Second Impact.

But Sandalphon was still an embryo when they found it. And at the rate it grew, it shouldn't have taken so long as it did for all of them to mature and attack. I think SEELE found the Angels eggs and held them captive (and in stasis) before releasing the embryos in some fashion when the time was right. They also have a habit of appearing out of nowhere, almost as though they were planted in the best place to attack, and considering how extensive NERV's tracking network is, it seems implausible that the Angels just happen to be congregated around Tokyo-3. SEELE would have interfered, as was shown in the show, all to keep everything on their sacred path as foretold in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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Re: Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

View Original PostDarkBluePhoenix wrote:And at the rate it grew, it shouldn't have taken so long as it did for all of them to mature and attack.

What do you mean, "at the rate it grew"? Sandalphon isn't shown growing, but changing instantaneously from an embryo-thing to an Anomalocaris-thing. No biomass is added; it's simply rearranged. According to Ritsuko, hatching happened prematurely, so presumably the incident was irregular. Sandalphon doesn't provide much usable information about how Angel incubation and maturation actually works, aside from the one tidbit that is reconfirmed later (that Angels begin as humanoids but "reject" this for individualized forms).

I think SEELE found the Angels eggs and held them captive (and in stasis) before releasing the embryos in some fashion when the time was right.

General criticism: Seele are already a tired trope, yes, but making them effectively omnipotent and omniscient to explain away perceived plot contrivances only creates more. They are also, IMO, much more interesting as human beings of limited means, as opposed to being all-out Villain Sues.

Specific: Over a dozen massive operations requiring significant amounts of money, manpower, coordination, and, most importantly, secrecy also seem like they would be really difficult to keep under wraps without word of even one dissipating into the information network to eventually be brought to our attention via Kaji or Hyuga. I expect the reason nothing was ever said about it is because there was nothing to say.

Furthermore, if Seele both possess and freely use the kind of godly ability to control their scenario you suggest, Kiel's reliance on one demonstrably unreliable man for the most important part of the plan becomes damn near impossible to swallow.

it seems implausible that the Angels just happen to be congregated around Tokyo-3.

They're not. They just happen to all be heading toward it. Earth is a very big place with a lot of hiding places in the ocean, in orbit, and in the (seemingly uninhabited) southern hemisphere. Nerv's budget is finite (another plot contrivance -- I don't suppose Seele starves their executive branch because it's good for The Scenario, as well?). They can barely manage to do upkeep on Evas, so why would you think they have Magi-powered sensory arrays across the globe? Concentrate limited resources where they'll do the most good: in this case, within the vicinity of the place where all the Angels are going anyway.

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Re: Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:55 am

Biomass is added because the metamorphosis made Sandalphon larger than the containment unit meant to hold it. Also, how do we know this was an accelerated process and not the norm? This is the first Angel NERV found before it found NERV. They have no basis for any assumptions.

As for SEELE being "villian sues" they do have a roadmap of sorts in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and when they have their "everything is going right according to our plans/expectations" meetings, [hey do seems to have a large amount of knowledge of what is occurring. And to be fair, Kaji and Hyuga are very good at their jobs with the webs of information they can find, but we can't entirely discount SEELE interfering. I mean, Lilith (or what was deemed Adam incorrectly) was a well hidden secret for quite some time, and SEELE has a knack for eliminating loose ends, so the secret would be easy enough to hide if they were willing to kill to keep people quiet.
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Re: Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:23 pm

  • Sandalphon doesn't get too large for the containment unit; it's shown actively breaking free of it. Compare the size of the egg (easiest to see right as the cage is latched around it) to the size of the "mature" Sandalphon. Sandalphon fits inside the egg easily.
  • (A) Ritsuko has access to information we do not. (B) Fiction utilizes a device that can be thought of as a law of conversation of information. (C) If someone who knows more about what's going on than the audience says something that is never contradicted, the author probably made them say it for a reason (exposition, etc.).
  • Seele covering up the existence of Lilith (who is stationary beneath Nerv HQ) is very different from the sheer scale of covering-up you suggest for repeated large-scale Angel capture and dispatch operations. You are giving far too much credit to an organization that couldn't keep top secret documents out of the hands of one college professor or, fifteen years on, manage to keep their prized MP Evas a secret (Hyuga learned about all of them, down to where they were being constructed).
  • Access to ancient prophecies is not the same thing as unlimited ability to act upon said prophecies without any narrative consequence.

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Re: Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby Blockio » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:28 pm

Another argument for the point of NERV simply being unable to detect all angels immediately (shortened, but you get the point) is that all angels (except for Sandalphon, who I think is just an excuse for the volcano scene) were detected either when, or just before they attacked, which probably means that their detection probably has something to do with their AT field changing upon "activation", in lack of a better term
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Re: Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby whisperwind777 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:36 am

I know this might sound crazy, but was it possible, that the Angle's target was never Lilith but eva Units?

Think about it. The Angels are forever sleeping until they detect a Eva Unit nearby.

The day Shiji arrived at Tokyo was exactly the day Unit 01 was ready for pilot. Same day Sakiel Attacks. Sakiel's attack was only defensive except on Unit 01. Despite Unit 01 did not attack Sakiel and fell to the ground thus not a worthy opponent to Sakiel at the moment, Sakiel used lethal force on Unit 01.

Same behavior on Shamshiel, active assaults on Unit 01 even it's taken down.

For Ramiel, even a balloon that posed no threat, just looked like Unit 01 was destroyed.

Gagiel did not chase the Adam embryo in Kaji's case, but Unit 02 instead.

Sandalphon did not respond to the scientific submarine, however, when Unit 02 arrived it quickly hatched.

Lots of evidence can be found to explain why the Angels were more interested in eliminating Eva Units rather than rushing to Central Dogma to fullfil their 'destiny', which is possibly just a propaganda.

What would your reaction be if you wake up one day and discovered a humanoid creature made of rotting flesh?
Most people might freak out and call it a 'zombie' and attack.
That's possibly how the angels see Eva Units.

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Re: Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby Storm » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:22 pm

View Original Postwhisperwind777 wrote:I know this might sound crazy, but was it possible, that the Angle's target was never Lilith but eva Units?

Think about it. The Angels are forever sleeping until they detect a Eva Unit nearby.

The day Shiji arrived at Tokyo was exactly the day Unit 01 was ready for pilot. Same day Sakiel Attacks. Sakiel's attack was only defensive except on Unit 01. Despite Unit 01 did not attack Sakiel and fell to the ground thus not a worthy opponent to Sakiel at the moment, Sakiel used lethal force on Unit 01.

Same behavior on Shamshiel, active assaults on Unit 01 even it's taken down.


Shamshel only attacks Shogouki after Shogouki shoots her. Wouldn't you be annoyed at that point too?

For Ramiel, even a balloon that posed no threat, just looked like Unit 01 was destroyed.


A balloon that looked like Shogouki aiming a weapon at Ramiel, which I feel is relevant to the discussion. Ramiel saw a threat, whether or not one was present. The Model 12 self-propelled mortar met the same fate.


Gagiel did not chase the Adam embryo in Kaji's case, but Unit 02 instead.



Yes - after Nigouki brandished a knife at Gaghiel. This one is at least borderline, though; Gaghiel seems rather preoccupied by Nigouki after she appears.


Sandalphon did not respond to the scientific submarine, however, when Unit 02 arrived it quickly hatched.



The probe wasn't attempting to put Sandalphon in a cage, either.


Lots of evidence can be found to explain why the Angels were more interested in eliminating Eva Units rather than rushing to Central Dogma to fullfil their 'destiny', which is possibly just a propaganda.

What would your reaction be if you wake up one day and discovered a humanoid creature made of rotting flesh?
Most people might freak out and call it a 'zombie' and attack.
That's possibly how the angels see Eva Units.


Rotting flesh? Hardly. More like cyborgs.

And you ignored the later Angels.

  • Matarael: Attempted to burrow into the Geofront; barely seemed to even notice the presence of the Evas.
  • Sahaquiel: Attempted to drop herself on to the Geofront. Hard to say what her motivations were, though.
  • Ireul: Infected an Eva simulation body, but subsequently found the Magi far more interesting.
  • Leliel: With this one, who really knows? Seemed more interested in Shinji than in Shogouki.
  • Bardiel: Eh... maybe? It infected an Eva but then promptly hit the road to Tokyo-3.
  • Zeruel: Mostly seemed to find Zerogouki and Nigouki to be an inconvenience. Rampaged into Headquarters immediately after both were disabled (but not destroyed!)
  • Arael: Like Leliel, seems more interested in the pilot than in the Eva.
  • Armisael: This is actually one of the stronger cases for your theory - Armisael sits around and rotates in place until Evas helpfully show up.
  • Tabris: Shows no interest in damaging or killing Evangelions, and proceeds directly to Terminal Dogma.

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Re: Was it ever explained why the Angels waited 15 years to start attacking?

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Postby Blockio » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:41 am

Tying in another interesting theory I heard a while ago: Maybe the angels (except for Tabris, but Tabris is an exception to everything) only attack Evas because they sense their AT field and, by the nature of it can tell that they are different and a threat. Best examples are Sandalphon, who "activated" after Unit 02 arrived and Armisael, who only targeted Units that were deploying their AT field (the original post was something about Armisael being blind and only touched on this topic as additional evidence)
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