“Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby zlink64 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:39 pm

That's his strongest evidence since he thinks it's a memory. You have to buy that it's a memory otherwise this doesn't work. But what evidence do you find convincing?
hmmm

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:42 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:While this part is certainly true, its only the line that gave the op the idea - the rest of the evidence still is too strong to simply neglect altogether

All the other evidence, save for a scene in instrumentality isn't actually evidence as those pieces would work fine if it was just Asuka and Shinji kissing. The credit scene was not actually from episode 15, but episode 16 which removes this theory's strongest piece of evidence.
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby anonymaus » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:46 pm

View Original Postzlink64 wrote: and she was upset about it


Where did you get this from?

Some of these arguments are really irrational and smell of emotional investment
Last edited by anonymaus on Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Blockio » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:48 pm

Asuka'sBigBrother wrote:All the other evidence, save for a scene in instrumentality isn't actually evidence as those pieces would work fine if it was just Asuka and Shinji kissing. The credit scene was not actually from episode 15, but episode 16 which removes this theory's strongest piece of evidence.


I would be tempted to believe you, but the one thing that simply doesnt fit is Shinjis behavior before fighting Leliel. A simple kiss isnt enough for such a confidence boost
Last edited by Blockio on Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby zlink64 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:52 pm

View Original Postanonymaus wrote:Where did you get this from?

Some of these arguments are really irrational and smell of emotional investment


Are you saying she was happy with Shinji's response to "Do you love me"?
hmmm

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby anonymaus » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:52 pm

View Original Postzlink64 wrote:Are you saying she was happy with Shinji's response to "Do you love me"?


I have no idea what argument you're making right now, can you explain it in detail from the beginning?

Also it's not worthy of bothering with a quote, but the idea that the credits lines are are worthless as evidence because they take place in the next episode, rather than the one that contains the alleged sex, is really funny. This is what I'm talking about when I mention irrational arguments. Some of you are trying to move heaven and earth to find a reason to dismiss every piece of evidence.

A lot of you also keep restating arguments that I already replied to on page 1 or 2, like we've been talking about Shinji refusing Misato's sexual advance (as evidence that he's 'anti-sex' and would've refused Asuka) when I already said why that's not an argument on page 2 (Rei had just died, episode 15 being normal circumstances, etc.)

I feel I should probably just stop responding to bad posts and only respond to ones that make sense
Last edited by anonymaus on Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Blockio » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:57 pm

View Original Postanonymaus wrote:Some of these arguments are really irrational and smell of emotional investment


Thats probably the biggest problem in this thread: Everyone (myself included) has a fixed perspective from which they view all scenes, which obviously influences the interpretation and makes it very hard to borderline impossible to find the "true" answer unless someone asks Anno himself and he gives a definite answer.
On the other hand, thats what makes this forum interesting, so I cant really complain.

Enough offtopic, lets get back to the original discussion
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby zlink64 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:59 pm

View Original Postanonymaus wrote:I have no idea what argument you're making right now, can you explain it in detail from the beginning?

Also it's not worthy of bothering with a quote, but the idea that the credits lines are are worthless as evidence because they take place in the next episode, rather than the one that contains the alleged sex, is really funny. This is what I'm talking about when I mention irrational arguments. Some of you are trying to move heaven and earth to find a reason to dismiss every piece of evidence.



In the video you say Asuka wakes up the next day feeling good/weird for lack of better words because of sex. And you also say that "Do you love me" is a memory from said sex. But apparently it's a bad memory. So I'm asking which is it because in the video you say both. Was it a good experience or a bad one?



also, No one has said anything irrational...quote what you think is irrational.
.
Last edited by zlink64 on Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hmmm

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby anonymaus » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:17 pm

View Original Postzlink64 wrote:In the video you say Asuka wakes up the next day feeling good/weird for lack of better words because of sex. And you also say that "Do you love me" is a memory from said sex. But apparently it's a bad memory. So I'm asking which is it because in the video you say both. Was it a good experience or a bad one?
.


The entire mind invasion scene is Arael forcing Asuka to reconcile what she wants herself to be (an adult, independent and having no need to rely on others and risk a repeat of what happened with her mother) with what she actually is (a child, dependent and badly wanting companionship.)

The Arael scene went like this
Arael (as 4 y/o Asuka): "Are you lonely?"
Asuka: "No! Stay away from me! I'm going to live on my own!" (frame spam of images with Shinji cut out of the frame and shit)
Arael (as current-day Asuka, apparently some replayed memory): "Say, do you love me?"
(another frame spam)
Asuka: "I won't rely on anyone!"
Arael: "Do you really love me?
(another frame spam)
Asuka: "I can live on my own!"
Arael (back to 4 y/o Asuka): "You big liar."
Asuka: Nooooo!"


Once you've built the vocabulary for what they're saying in the scene, it's basically Arael showing Asuka that yes, she is lonely, yes, she will rely on others, and no, she can't live on her own. The evidence Arael uses is Shinji. He's all throughout the frame spams.

Anyway, I think the reason Asuka can be happy about the sex in the short term is because she can compartmentalize what she did as just being 'for fun', like the kiss, and not evidence of any serious reliance on others. The reason Asuka can later think of it as bad is because Arael cut through her cognitive dissonance and put it into more objective terms.

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby zlink64 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:19 pm

Also which line is a memory, is it:

"Say, Do you love me" or
"Do you really love me"

They come one after another and they are both exactly the same as far as context goes.
It matters because it seems like you are making the choice arbitrarily and the second line implies Shinji said something like "yes" in response at some point. If we are going to accept this as memory we have to accept both and that has weird consequences that I think most people won't agree with.
hmmm

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby anonymaus » Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:28 pm

View Original Postzlink64 wrote:Also which line is a memory, is it:

"Say, Do you love me" or
"Do you really love me"

They come one after another and they are both exactly the same as far as context goes.
It matters because it seems like you are making the choice arbitrarily and the second line implies Shinji said something like "yes" in response at some point. If we are going to accept this as memory we have to accept both and that has weird consequences that I think most people won't agree with.


Obviously if one is a memory the other has to be as well

There's also a chance that 'You big liar' is also part of the memory, ie Asuka said that

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:14 pm

View Original PostBlockio wrote:I would be tempted to believe you, but the one thing that simply doesnt fit is Shinjis behavior before fighting Leliel. A simple kiss isnt enough for such a confidence boost

Says who?

For a kid who’s been utterly isolated for the vast majority of his life and has had a friend, finding someone who’s willing to kiss you would be a massive source of confidence.
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:17 pm

That wasn’t exactly the most inspirational kiss right there.
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:21 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:That wasn’t exactly the most inspirational kiss right there.


Why would the sex scene be any more inspirational?

We know the confidence boost is a fake one, so the motivations behind the kiss are moot.
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby zlink64 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:27 pm

Misato is the reason for the boost. I forget what she say but she compliments him and it goes to his head.
hmmm

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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:18 pm

View Original PostAsuka'sBigBrother wrote:Why would the sex scene be any more inspirational?

We know the confidence boost is a fake one, so the motivations behind the kiss are moot.


Endorphins, seratonin, oxytocin.
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:29 pm

View Original Postzlink64 wrote:Misato is the reason for the boost. I forget what she say but she compliments him and it goes to his head.

She says exactly "You are number one!" in literal plain English, a phrase that Shinji repeats at Misato, also in literal plain English, in the same episode before getting engulfed in Quantum Angel Shadow.

It seems like all evidences of Shinji's behavior are all pointing at scenes equally as explicit in nature as the behavior exhibited by Shinji himself. I don't know why everyone is stretching logic in order to force in some much appreciated, narratively contradictory, and unverifiable AsuShin hanky-panky time.

Fanfics go in the fanfic section, people.
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Blockio » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:36 pm

Noone is streching logic here, there are more things that may or may not point to it than just the confidence boost thing
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:52 pm

A heavily hinted subtext that the characters have sexual interest in one another or had sex off screen isn't fanfiction.
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Re: “Do you love me” Theory - Asuka & Shinji Had Sex in Episode 15

Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:05 pm

I’m aware sex offers things which can lead to a confined boost. But what you need to show, is that the boost Shinji received could not have been achieved by virtue of a kiss or whatever events we know occurred.

Otherwise, it simply isn’t evidence for the specific existence for this event you claim happened.
View Original PostChuckman wrote:A heavily hinted subtext that the characters have sexual interest in one another or had sex off screen isn't fanfiction.

Please be specific about what heavily hinted subtext hints at a Sex scene rather than the kiss scene.
Blockio wrote:Noone is streching logic here, there are more things that may or may not point to it than just the confidence boost thing

From what I’ve seen, there’s only one thing which would be the instrumentality scene. Everything else hints at the kissing scene which makes the sex scene redundant.
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