Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby anonymaus » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:19 pm

EDIT: Here's the completed theory in image form
Image

backup on a larger image host that compresses more: https://i.imgur.com/lKkNwNG.jpg

vector which should be more readable on mobile phones or smaller monitors (kindly made by SandroHc): https://a.pomf.space/bksywkdgyrzi.svg

---

I was listening to Sakura Nagashi and I had an epiphany about Rebuild.
This relies also on theories that have been kicking around my head for years and it would take forever to throw them all out, but here are the fresh parts that can be speedily said.

Watching flowers just blossomed fall
"Too early, this year" you said,
In disappointment, regret
And you were beautiful


This seems to refer to Shinji based on the rest of the song.
"Watching flowers just blossomed fall" - the timeline cycle? You can (not) redo.
"Too early, this year" - Shinji becomes aware of all the loops right before the next one is initiated?
Perhaps when instrumentality comes, and everyone can see each other's memories, Shinji is granted knowledge of past timelines, maybe from Kaworu or somebody else who is timeline cognizant.
Meaning is not totally clear.

If you could see me now
I wonder what you would think
Me, living without you

Whoever is speaking to Shinji is not with him anymore. She is living in a universe without him, and him without her.
There is only one primary character who does not appear in Rebuild. That's Asuka Langley Soryu. Shikinami is not her.

In End of Evangelion there was a deleted live action sequence in which Asuka lived in a universe where Shinji did not exist. In this world, Asuka is 24 years old. In Rebuild, all of the Children including Shinji are 24 years old.
https://wiki.evageeks.org/Resources:End_of_Evangelion_Screenplays_(Episode_26%27) - Ctrl-f "I need you"

In this world Asuka confesses to a spectral Rei that her existence is bleak and meaningless. The title screen for this scene was "I need you." (This screen was later moved in front of the final scene of EoE.)
Long before where that scene was supposed to be placed, in EoE when Shinji is telling God Rei why he wants to die, he tells her: "No one needs me, so it's better if I don't exist."

It is possible that Shinji ended up in no-Asuka world, and Asuka in no-Shinji world, because Shinji made that wish to God Rei during EoE.

Everybody finds love
In the end


Unclear meaning.

>If you could hear the newborn's cry, sound and healthy
Ringing in the town you protected
I know you would be so pleased
The footsteps that continue after us

This is the line which tells us the song is about Shinji.
In NGE's early episodes Misato had a conversation like this with Shinji, but I don't think the song's narrator is Misato. I think it's Anno recycling an idea he had used before. An older, wiser Asuka is saying it here.

Everybody finds love
In the end

I can't believe that I'll never see you again
I haven't told you anything yet
I haven't told you anything yet


I imagine Utada is privy to whatever concealed information this song is waving in front of our faces.
There are two options for what the narrator is saying here: steadfastly, "Against all odds, I believe we will meet again" OR "It is unfair and tragic that we will never meet again"

Utada's tone of singing gives away little to indicate either option. There is tragic sadness in her voice at the first line, then what sounds like growing determination in the last two lines. Repeating it (louder & more forcefully the second time) almost seems like she's reassuring herself of why they must/will meet again.

Watching flowers just blossomed fall
The trees stood by, helpless


Again about the freshly blossomed flowers dying.
I can't look at this and think it's about anything but an Impact/timeline loop, and everything being reset just to bloom and die again.

However great the fear, I will not look away
If at the end of everything, there is love

The second line seems to mean she thinks they will meet at the end of all this.
It's possible the final scene of Rebuild will echo the first and final scenes of NGE, just like the first shot of Rebuild eerily echoed the first and last shot of NGE. The two of them on a red shore. 3.0+1.0

TLDR: Asuka and Shinji are living in universes where the other doesn't exist. They will probably reunite at the end of Rebuild.

This leaves a question: who is Shikinami? Was part of Soryu's soul split, like her mother, and that became Shikinami?
This can explain why Shikinami is both like and unlike Soryu. Surface level personality is similar, but she has an affinity for dolls...
Shikinami's backstory seems to be avoided almost purposely, as if it is withheld because her backstory would reveal something critical about Rebuild.
Last edited by anonymaus on Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:08 pm, edited 12 times in total.

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:45 pm

On a whim, I looked up the English translaiton for Beautiful World, the ED songs for 1.0 and 2.0:

http://lyricstranslate.com/en/beautiful ... z50udTVPPi

Beautiful World

It's only love

If I could have only one wish
Let me sleep right next to you; it doesn't matter where
Beautiful world
I'm gazing only at you, no hesitation
Beautiful boy
You don't still know your beauty

It's only love

Asleep or awake, teen comics
I hate myself being a foolish dreamer

I don't know what I want, but all I see
Is soft tears streaming down my cheeks

I've got nothing to say
Just want to see you again
Can't say what I want to
May not have the heart
But whatever

If I could have only one wish
Let me sleep right next to you; it doesn't matter where
Beautiful world
I'm gazing only at you, no hesitation
Beautiful boy
You don't still know your beauty

It's only love

No matter what the cost, when you try,
You will find yourself grow up little by little

I don't need newspapers
It doesn't tell me what I really want to know
Hey, where have you been?
If only you're doing well
It'll be alright, though

f I can't see you 'til my world fades away
Let me sleep right next to you; it doesn't matter where
Beautiful world
In the midst of transient days
Beautiful boy
It can't be helped if I'm moody

If I could have only one wish
Let me sleep right next to you


.....as admittedly farfetched as this theory is, I can totally get behind the lyrics being something an older Soryu would sing about Shinji.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby anonymaus » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:53 pm

There's two good quality translations of Beautiful World here
https://wiki.evageeks.org/Beautiful_Wor ... ranslation

Something struck me about the lyrics.

If I can't meet you before my world ends,
Please let me sleep next to you. Any place will do


Image

Fitting that Asuka would be speaking to him through songs, if she's inside his SDAT.

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:08 pm

2017 SEQUEL THEORY OF THE YEAR:


SoryuDAT
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby Settie » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:29 pm

I'm not a believer of the sequel theory so i'm not sure about a multi-verse/reality separated Shinji and Asuka, but i could see a uniquely NTE time loop being a thing, given some of Kaworus more cryptic lines.

As far as the songs are concerned, i think Sakura Nagashi could be perspective from 3 potential characters, Misato Asuka or Kaworu, with the last one being the most problematic as he surely would know Shinji would come back. Still, whichever perspective it is would be someone that was living during Shinjis absence. Beautiful world i think would be uniquely poignant if it was coming from Yui trapped in Unit-1, especially given what happened at the end of 2.0 and the 14 years Shinji spent within it.

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby anonymaus » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:20 pm

I had another thought.
There is precedent for Asuka and Shinji talking to/about each other through songs.

That's definitely the case with both the used & unused scripts for "Everything You've Ever Dreamed". See this image for more info on that.
Thanatos might also be Asuka and Shinji talking to each other though lately I felt it might be Asuka talking to her mother. Regardless it's worth mentioning.

Now that I think about it there's also the fact that Asuka and Shinji originally synced with each other through music.

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby anonymaus » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:42 am

View Original Postanonymaus wrote:There's two good quality translations of Beautiful World here
https://wiki.evageeks.org/Beautiful_Wor ... ranslation

Something struck me about the lyrics. (...)


To follow up on this post, I looked at the lyrics of Beautiful World some more.
I'll omit lines that have already been commented on. There are a fair many that repeat throughout the song.
The narrator of the song seems to be the same character, and she seems to be talking to Shinji, just as in Sakura Nagashi.

It's only love

As was the case with Sakura Nagashi's recurring English line "Everybody finds love in the end", I have no idea what this is about, other than it vaguely seems to imply she loves the person this song is talking about.
If I can be granted just one wish,
Please let me sleep next to you. Any place is fine.

As I said in my earlier post, Shinji always sleeps with his SDAT. If Asuka's world happens to be in there, and her too, it makes thematic sense for her to be communicating via song. Especially considering there's past precedent for Asuka and Shinji talking through songs ("Everything You've Ever Dreamed" and arguably "Thanatos", I think another one I am forgetting too.)

And now that I'm thinking about these lyrics more, the narrator wanting to sleep at Shinji's side, I can think of someone who fits that description.
Image
Beautiful world
Without regrets, my eyes are only on you.
Beautiful boy
You don't know yet, just how beautiful you are.

She's speaking as if both Shinji and the world he lives in contain beauty which he is blind to.
I guess the grass is greener on the other side. Or redder in this case.
Whether you're sleeping or awake,
You just dream of shounen manga. Don't you like yourself?
You don't know what you want, but you can't stop wanting.
Lukewarm tears roll down your cheeks.

These read like the words of somebody who has been inside Shinji's mind and felt things as he felt them.
Do you know anybody who fits the bill?
I have nothing I want to tell you,
I just want to meet you again.
I can't say what I want to tell you,
Maybe I'm just a coward.
But that's alright too.

First it's "I have nothing I want to tell you," then it's "I can't say what I want to tell you, maybe I'm just a coward."
Tsundere, huh? But also weirdly self deprecating/self aware. It sounds like Asuka but an older Asuka who's more comfortable with herself.
She wants badly to tell him something, which is what firmly gives away that it's the same character who is narrating Sakura Nagashi.
No matter what it is, give everything a try.
Even if you get hurt, it's a valuable experience.

Just some life coaching, I guess. Shinji probably does need to hear it.
I don't need newpapers.
The important things are not printed there.

The most interesting two lines of the song are these, IMO.
NERV censors information related to angels before it is printed in the news. Second impact was passed off as a meteor impact in the newspapers. Angel attacks are played off as natural disasters. The Classified Information is an entire list of sensitive angel-related info, directly accompanied by the cover story used on the public.

She knows about those important things being kept out of the papers.
Moreover, they seem to be happening again, given she knows about them. Again I'm reminded of a repeating timeline.
Why does she have memories of what happened during NGE, while Shinji does not?
How are you doing recently?
If you are fine,
Then that's good I guess.

Listen to the song at this part, the last line is delivered almost with the air of a wistful sigh.
It's as if she's frustrated that she isn't receiving any communication back from him. Maybe she thinks he can't hear hers, either.
That makes this whole song seem like a prayer you utter into nothingness, or some words you might say at a friend's grave. A silly sentimental thing to do.
The song segues into serious matters directly afterwards, as if to say: enough with this smalltalk.
If I can't meet you before my world ends,
Please let me sleep next to you. Any place will do.
Beautiful world
As these fleeting days pass by,
Beautiful boy
It's natural to feel whimsical. (alternate translation: "Mood fluctuations can't be helped.")

Her world is doomed to end and she knows it. Beep boop, repeating timeline alarm has gone off again.
She wants to meet him before it ends and not after. Why?
Will she cease to exist? Will she live on in a new world, but forget him?

"It's natural to feel whimsical." It's almost like she's poking fun at herself for getting so sappy and sentimental, and talking to somebody who likely can't hear her. She might as well be saying "I normally wouldn't do this, this was a moment of weakness."
If I can be granted just one wish,
Please let me sleep next to you.

The last lines of the song. Already commented on them above, but it's worth saying that they are the last as well.

TLDR: I'm further convinced that the person narrating Beautiful World and Sakura Nagashi is Soryu now. From what I gather she is in a looping timeline where Shinji does not exist (at least not the Shinji she knows). It is doomed to end, just as the previous ones have. She wants to somehow reunite with the Shinji she knows.

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby C.T.1290 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:28 pm

How do we know for sure that this is Soryu we're talking about here? Sure it's not just some other person expressing her emotion through songs?

I mean, sure, I don't think I've heard the songs before. Unless this was all in EoE, in which case, I've only seen it one time to remember.

anonymaus wrote:As I said in my earlier post, Shinji always sleeps with his SDAT. If Asuka's world happens to be in there, and her too, it makes thematic sense for her to be communicating via song. Especially considering there's past precedent for Asuka and Shinji talking through songs ("Everything You've Ever Dreamed" and arguably "Thanatos", I think another one I am forgetting too.)

That is a pretty interesting theory. Although, I don't think it's possible for someone to be talking to another person through a portable music player, nor is it possible for one person to be aware of another's existence in an alternate reality and observe them through it(unless you have some sort of magic crystal ball or portal that allows you see someone in another universe).

If it is an older Asuka as you say, what reason does she have to wanting to talk Shinji in the Rebuild universe? To apologize and make amends for the way she treated him in NGE? And hope that her Shikinami counterpart doesn't do the same thing she did?

And also, I have a belief that Shikinami is basically a redux of Asuka Langley Soryu, a 2.0 if you must. I mean, she is Asuka; same looks, same personality, everything. What makes her so different from Soryu? Besides her having a different surname and other subtle changes? Like her hand puppet, for instance. Soryu wouldn't have that in her possession.
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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby anonymaus » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:33 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:How do we know for sure that this is Soryu we're talking about here? Sure it's not just some other person expressing her emotion through songs?


There's many different fragments of evidence at this point, none of which can be restated quickly. It would also take up a lot of space. Check my previous posts and the OP

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby Cybermat47 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:09 am

Interesting theory. If it’s true, it certainly wouldn’t be the last time Hideaki Anno had plot-relevant information from a certain character’s perspective put in the lyrics of a song. The lyrics of Who Will Know from the Shin Godzilla soundtrack are almost certainly from Godzilla’s point of view:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Oq59ypmIOI
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Evangelion 2.9: You Will (Not) Survive
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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:50 am

Wow. Although this looks very plausable and well argued, I hope you won't mind me saying that it is a bit fanwanky so I will take it with a grain of salt.

Also, there's the whole thing with the SDAT changing to track #27, something it never did before, right before 2.22 goes "off rails". So it definitely has some significance.

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby Joseki » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:18 am

I interpreted Beautiful World as something mostly from Rei's prospective, much like Thanatos: If I can't be yours. Some parts of the lyrics are fairly similar too:

Thanatos: If I can't be yours wrote:What of us? What do I say?
Are we both from a different world?
'Cos every breath that I take
I breath it for you
I couldn't face my life without you
And I'm So Afraid
There's nothing to comfort us
What am I?
If I can't be yours

Beautiful World wrote:If I can't meet you before my world ends,
Please let me sleep next to you. Any place will do.
Beautiful world
As these fleeting days pass by,
Beautiful boy
It's natural to feel whimsical.


From the lyrics I get the same "more than friends, but not lovers" confused and tragic relationship.

And Sakura Nagashi I'm not quite sure it's really about just one character, to me it's both about Kaworu and Shinji.

If you heard the healthy sound of of a baby's first cry
sounding again today from somewhere within the town you protected,
I'm sure you would be happy
about the footsteps following after us.

This part to me seems directed to Shinji

No matter how frightening it is, I won't look away
if there is love at the end of everything.

This instead is what I think will become Shinji's way of life later in the last movie.



Your theory has nice connections but I think it's a bit more grounded (or at least I like my interpretation more :lol: )
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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:36 am

I really can't see Sakura Nagashi as involving Kaworu. Some things in there might fit him, but they also fit other characters better, and lots of things don't really make sense involving him. Kaworu actively advocates Instrumentality, and a lot of what he says to Shinji is all about him NOT having to change or face any challenges at all. The whole thing with newborn babies seems to symbolise hope for the future and rebuilding - perhaps humanity rebuilding after 3I in EoE, or 4I/5I/8I in Final, and Asuka still was part of that new humanity in EoE, yet Kaworu-Adam remained in Instrumentality. Mentioning "the city you protected" seems to evoke Tokyo 3, and while this can apply to Rei/Asuka/Misato, Kaworu doesn't exist exactly as a pilot for NERV so he doesn't really link into that. "The footsteps coming after us" seems to further reinforce this. It's all about the world after an Impact, future generations. Maybe Shinji died after EoE and Asuka grew up seeing the world recover, but Shinji wasn't there to see it also. And like mentioned above, Kaworu is confident he will see Shinji again, be it in another loop or in Instrumentality again (which is rather pessimistic actually, since it seems to imply Shinji will fail again), yet the character in Sakura Nagashi is full of doubt about their unrequited desires to see the other person again. And "I haven't told you anything yet" certainly makes me think a lot more of Asuka's tsundereness, whether it be forgiveness or anything else.

One more thing: a translation of Sakura Nagashi is: Cherry Blossoms for the Departed.

It's definitely mourning someone who isn't there to see the future unfolding. Could this mean Shinji's dies in an heroic sacrifice in Final?

With that said, it's perfectly possible that this doesn't need to be sung by any actual character. I certainly always had the impression that it was a "general" thing before, however Thanatos and KSD do have a sort of "first person perspective". Interestingly, EYED, which is very openly about Asuka and Shinji both, doesn't.

It's good to remember that Komm, Süßer Tod and Everything You've Ever Dreamed were both originally written by Anno himself, very clearly in Shinji's perspective, and later adapted into English.

I think we can certainly agree that the song is directed to Shinji, however.

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby anonymaus » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:13 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:I interpreted Beautiful World as something mostly from Rei's prospective, much like Thanatos: If I can't be yours


I don't know whether or not Thanatos involves Shinji, but I'm pretty certain it does involve Asuka and not Rei.
Currently I think Thanatos is between Asuka and her mother, because of the image choices they made for that book and because of the lyrics of this song which directly precedes it.
The relationship described in Thanatos also does not sound romantic. Romantic terms are deliberately avoided in that pointed way Anno likes to do, so it seems more like a mother-child thing to me.

I'm sure that Beautiful World and Sakura Nagashi aren't sung from the perspective of Kaworu for two main reasons.
1) It's a woman's voice, and I don't think they do male narration by female singers. In "Everything You've Ever Dreamed", for example, the final song has an entirely third person perspective of Shinji being interrogated by the female narrator (ie. "What was it she did to break your heart?") The original Japanese lyrics did have first person elements, which were probably meant to be sung by a male. Komm, süsser Tod is surely from Asuka's perspective. Reading those original Japanese lyrics confirms it beyond anything. "I'm afraid of being disliked by everyone." - "I mustn't let myself like anyone." - "If I entrust my heart to another, I'll be devastated in the end" - those are all pure Asuka.
2) The songs contain many elements of strong human empathy that are not compatible with what we see from Kaworu.
Kaworu is interested in humans, but he isn't one. He's as far estranged from humanity as you can get in the NGE universe. Not just a god, like Rei, but the god of the angels.

When the narrator of Sakura Nagashi speaks about "the sound of a newborn's cry, sound and healthy," I'm not reminded of Kaworu at all. He has no human context to know what that is, or why it should motivate a human. He has no idea about human reproduction except maybe in a removed and mechanical sense. Similarly, this passage is not Kaworuesque:
Whether you're sleeping or awake,
You just dream of shounen manga. Don't you like yourself?
You don't know what you want, but you can't stop wanting.
Lukewarm tears roll down your cheeks.
Last edited by anonymaus on Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby Joseki » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:28 am

View Original Postanonymaus wrote:I don't know whether or not Thanatos involves Shinji, but I'm pretty certain it does involve Asuka and not Rei.


The lyrics fits Rei III and her double godly/human more than Asuka, and Thanatos is the OST for Rei's sacrifice, that's why I think it's about Rei.
Last edited by Joseki on Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby anonymaus » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:52 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:The lyrics fits Rei III and her double godly/human more than Asuka, and Thanatos is the OST for Rei's sacrifice, that's why I think it's about Rei.

I didn't know Thanatos plays during that scene. It could be Rei then. "That I may not be / What I think I am" does sound like Rei realizing her true nature.
Either way that's not too important to this theory, I was just using Thanatos as a potential example of Asuka talking through songs. There are still multiple examples if you exclude Thanatos.

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:54 am

that's a very beautiful Theory and I'd love for that to be true. Cuz I do like how Shinji says to Rei when they're having that live-action scene, how he tells Asuka that he's not there.

but I still say that they are doing three faces of Eve type shit for Asuka.
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Postby CaesarMagnus » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:07 pm

Songs don’t have to be taken literally. It just feels stupid to try to analyze them in detail, in my opinion. Even more in this case, having been made by a pop singer, whose knowledge of Evangelion is dubtious (althout she claims that she's a fan of the series) and whose main job is to create "cool" songs. Trying to see something hidden in there is almost a paranoid delusion.

In any case, here are the official music-videos of Utaka Hikaru’s account on YT, with the collaboration of Kazuya Tsurumaki (the co-director of EoE):
Beautiful World
Sakura Nagashi

Is it me, or there’s actually no reference to that fantasious multi-verse romance between a lonely Soryu and a clueless Shinji?
Is it me or maybe those songs were made by Utada Hikaru with no hidden intentions, just to fit the movies? I honestly don’t think this singer had in her mind any kind of theory when she was writing the lyrics; perhaps, like many artists do, she just expressed her feelings in an emotive way, and talked about general issues (loneliness, low-esteem, need for love, etc.), without thinking of one or another character of the series. She's a pop singer after all, not a genius of conspiracies and hidden plots.

Actually, the lyrics certainly resonate with Shinji and can be applied to many characters talking to Shinji or just about his relationships with them (Rei, Misato, Asuka and to a certain extent, Kaworu), but it can be just a general thing too. As a matter of fact, Beautiful World was firstly used in 1.11, and, if I don’t remember wrongly, Asuka doesn’t even show up in that one.

And then there’s Sakura Nagashi, talking about the loss of a beloved one. Oh, and coincidentally what we see in 3.33 is how Shinji loses Kaworu… Curious.
I despise KawoShin, as well as any other ship within Evangelion. But it’s fairly clear that the death of Kaworu affected Shinji very gravely, even if it was just seeing a friend dying before his eyes. And while I don’t think these songs are necessarily applicable to specific characters, I think it’s a great deal more logical to think that it might make reference to the recent death of Kaworu, and not to a fantastic universe-travelling Soryu.

Moreover, as C.T. 1290 pointed out, how in hell could Asuka have divine powers that allows her to transcends universes and communicate with others? Unless you believe that, after EoE, Soryu is a kind of goddess, your theory crumbles down entirely. And, as far as I know, the point of EoE was that "life goes on", not that "humanity has godly powers". And why on earth would an adult Asuka be so obsessed with Shinji? She met him when they were 14 years old, there's really no need for her to think of him all the time; it's utterly ridiculous and a banalization of Asuka's character, in my opinion.


Some people really like to think of “convincing” conspiracy theories about hidden powers (the Jews, some say; the Masons, others claim) controlling our lives, while we’re blind to that. And, personally, all this theory of these songs talking about parallel universes and hidden messages, reminds me to all that BS.

I don’t think it’s necessary to complicate life like this. Honestly, this transcends the level of “fanwanking”. If, as it’s been said, the Rebuilds were a mere illusionary alternate reality similar to the illusion Rei shows Shinji (the EoE life-action) why on earth are they making 4 movies of it, full of new characters such as Sakura or the members of WILLE? If it was going to be just a dream, with just one film it would have been enough. Or just a short OVA. But not four complete films. Why the effort? It makes no sense.

I feel there are some people with a lot of free time and imagination, who refuse to think the Rebuilds are a different canon from NGE/EoE, and just throw complicated theories to link the two works. We’ll see what 3.0+1.0 shows us, but I’m afraid many people will be disappointed when they realize they’ve been utterly wasting their time…


P.S.: What are those “multiple times” Asuka communicates with Shinji via songs? As far as I know, KST and EYED were from Shinji’s point of view, showing his depressive/suicidal state (KST) and his feeling of betrayal (EYED). And Thanatos is not about Asuka, so...

This thought of hidden communications via songs can be funny as a speculation, but presenting it as a “theory” is beyond being presumptuous.

By the way, about EYED, Shinji actually tells "You betrayed me! You betrayed my feelings! You betrayed me” to Kaworu (wiki.Episode 24). And again in EoE, talking to Rei:
SPOILER: Show
Wikiquote - NGE

Shinji: Nobody understands me.
Rei: You never understood anything.
Shinji: I thought this was supposed to be a world without pain, and without uncertainty.
Rei: That's because you thought that everyone else felt the same as you do.
Shinji: You betrayed me! You betrayed my feelings!
Rei: You misunderstood from the very beginning. You just believed what you wanted to believe.
Shinji: Nobody wants me, so they can all just die.


He’s just justifying the initiation of Instrumentality, and the “everyone just die” outrage he had, claiming that he feels betrayed by the rest of humanity. “Nobody understands and helps me, so just die”. That panel you made is fairly biased, showing the frame with Asuka, as if it was about her specifically. I think it's clear it's not, and that it’s rather a cry of desperation from him.

Seriously, please stop reducing every frame, every sentence and every single detail you hear and watch in the series/film and songs to “Asuka and Shinji”. Maybe your goggles don’t let you see them, but there are more things in Evangelion apart from AsuShin, you know.
Asuka's loyal Knight.

"We all have to find our own answers." - Hideaki Anno

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby anonymaus » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:12 pm

View Original PostCaesarMagnus wrote:Songs don’t have to be taken literally. It just feels stupid to try to analyze them in detail, in my opinion. Even more in this case, having been made by a pop singer, whose knowledge of Evangelion is dubtious (althout she claims that she's a fan of the series) and whose main job is to create "cool" songs. Trying to see something hidden in there is almost a paranoid delusion.

The songs clearly refer to Evangelion and were almost surely put together with input from Anno, just like plenty of previous tracks in Evangelion's history. You will never convince anyone that Everything You've Ever Dreamed has nothing to do with Evangelion, for example. The musicians responsible for Everything You've Ever Dreamed were not Evangelion staff. They weren't even fans, or familiar with the IP in any way beyond whatever commercial prompting they received while developing the song. Despite this the song still received enough input from Anno that it's universally recognizable as a piece of relevant Evangelion lore. It's the same with Rebuild's ED tracks.

"If you could hear the newborn's cry, sound and healthy / Ringing in the town you protected"
Please explain what this refers to if not Tokyo-3 and Shinji.

If you disagree with the theory, please dispute the evidence I've offered on a point by point basis. You can say all day that you dislike the theory and it offends your sensibilities, which is not surprising for anyone familiar with your post history, but you're not winning hearts and minds with your outrage.

P.S.: What are those “multiple times” Asuka communicates with Shinji via songs? As far as I know, KST and EYED were from Shinji’s point of view, showing his depressive/suicidal state (KST) and his feeling of betrayal (EYED). And Thanatos is not about Asuka, so...


Komm Süsser Tod is unarguably sung from Asuka's perspective. If the title wasn't enough of a clue for you then you're already engaging in willful ignorance, but the lyrics make it absolutely airtight.

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Re: Sakura Nagashi Theory - Rebuild & A Missing Character

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Postby FelipeFritschF » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:28 pm

I can certainly understand your doubts about the Sequel Theory, but it involves far, far more details than just this in its favor. It has already been argued a lot elsewhere in this forum, however we can't really say anything for sure until the next movie comes around. Probably.

Let's just drop the idea that this is necessarily Asuka or any other specific character for a moment. There is no need for that really and I think the theory still works without that. Beatiful World seems to me to be all about Shinji coming to terms with reality and learning to love himself, while I reiterate Sakura Nagashi seems to be about moving on and rebuilding one's life - and I've already mentioned how deeply incompatible it is with Kaworu. The references to the "town you protected" and babies don't necessitate it to be Asuka holding her baby after Papa Shinji passed away or something like that, at all (Although this reminds me I should catch up on Aki-chan's Life!). It can be a "general" thing expressing Shinji's absence just fine.

I posted this thread elsewhere and someone brought attention to the fact that Utada Hikaru had recently lost her mother when she recorded Sakura Nagashi. As far as I know there's also no information regarding what input Anno and the other senior Eva staff had in writing these songs. Maybe they had nothing to do with it, just like A Cruel Angel's Thesis was written and performed entirely without their actual involvement.

Komm Süsser Tod is unarguably sung from Asuka's perspective. If the title wasn't enough of a clue for you then you're already engaging in willful ignorance, but the lyrics make it absolutely airtight.


I really can't agree. Although the general theme of being afraid of rejection and hiding is present, that applies very well to both Asuka and Shinji individually. However, considering the context it exists in within movie, as well as the clear deathwish present in the song, I think it's more likely Shinji's perspective. Asuka had just been revigorated by finding out about her mother, and though she still had her fears of intimacy, she DID NOT want to "return to nothing" at all, as we can see by her repeating "I don't wanna die" multiple times, later paralled with "I'll kill you". Asuka was still terrified of death, but Shinji had become so disillusioned he resigned and accepted "returning to nothing".
Last edited by FelipeFritschF on Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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