Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:31 pm

This whole thing is having me wonder if Asuka's mom really did love her. She did watched over her the whole time without Asuka realizing it up until her final battle, and she did seem to fulfil her wish of her daughter dying with her. That, or it's part of Yui's plan to start instrumentality, and supposedly save the human race.
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:13 pm

T was a deception to get her to die with her. There's a reason Asuka's death and Asuka becoming a doll was shown in images right before Asuka'a mom got her to "live".
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:39 am

Asuka's mother inside the Eva doesn't have the same intentions as the one outside though.
It's her mother aspect in the Eva, and that was missing in her actual body (the MAGI taught us that in this show the mother aspect can be separated).

As to why Asuka's body reacts to the Eva's destruction, in this movie the limits between what is real and isn't become very unclear intentionally.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:15 am

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:Asuka's mother inside the Eva doesn't have the same intentions as the one outside though.
It's her mother aspect in the Eva

The only reason we know about the "mother aspect" thing at all is because the Classified Information said that only part of Kyoko's soul was absorbed -- in the contact experiment itself. It never precludes the possibility that the rest of Kyoko was salvaged into Eva-02 later. (And technology is clearly developed at some point to move souls into cores without need for a CE. In fact, the CEs never had the official purpose of soul relocation at all; they were being performed with the hope of creating a copy within the core.) So when, in 25', we hear both maternal Kyoko and crazy Kyoko voices in the distance, homing in on Asuka at the same time and in the same way, some interpret that as "both" Kyokos coexisting within Eva-02's core.

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:46 am

I honestly didn't think into it that much.
I just see the Eva as the mother, and Kyoko as somebody who was robbed of that part.
The Eva protects Asuka throughout the battle I'd say, the harpies are an external thing.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby neongenesisvandelay » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:35 am

When she came back, I thought it had something to do with Shinji willing her back into being after his brief stint as a god in Unit 01.
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:59 am

It's more probable she comes back because she wanted to live again (in line with what Yui said).
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Kisses4Katie » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:36 am

Ibuki said she was nearing 500% sync ratio- anything over 200 I think leads to the pilots suffering more physical effects corresponding with the Eva's physical damage.

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:22 am

View Original PostKisses4Katie wrote:Ibuki said she was nearing 500% sync ratio- anything over 200 I think leads to the pilots suffering more physical effects corresponding with the Eva's physical damage.

Sync ratio isn't even mentioned once for the entire duration of EoE.

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:19 am

Personally I'm inclined to think it's a special property of the Spear and its doppelgängers to transfer damage onto the Eva pilot, probably connected in some way with its ability to break through AT Fields. Keep in mind it isn't just Asuka's body that gets harmed; Shinji likewise develops Unit-01's "holy stigmata", and I doubt in his despondent state his Synch Ratio was anywhere near what Asuka's was. Plus, while she feels the harpies tearing at her innards, there's no indication she actually got disembowelled the way Unit-02 did.

As for how she died... Well, between the manifested damage from the Spears, psychic shock (which was always considered a risk) and Maya's declaration that Unit-02 had gone silent, I think it's safe to say that the Spears finished her off.

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:45 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Sync ratio isn't even mentioned once for the entire duration of EoE.

Not strictly true, though its not mentioned during the fight; at c12:35 we have:

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:33 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Not strictly true, though its not mentioned during the fight; at c12:35 we have

No, still true. I said "sync ratio". That's a different keyword than "sync" as a verb. :wink:

ACGT-Samael wrote:Plus, while she feels the harpies tearing at her innards, there's no indication she actually got disembowelled the way Unit-02 did.

It's kind of incredible that she was feeling anything at all, since Eva-02 was powered down at the time. This realistically would have cut the sync completely, since we've seen it's a process that's initiated and controlled by cybernetic components, so without any energy being fed in... I've taken it to mean that the link between Asuka and Kyoko's souls is so strong that it no longer requires technological assistance; it's transcended.

If the sync had been active at the time, I suspect that the effects to Asuka would have been quite a bit worse than sympathetic pain.

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby ACGT-Samael » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:42 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:It's kind of incredible that she was feeling anything at all, since Eva-02 was powered down at the time. This realistically would have cut the sync completely, since we've seen it's a process that's initiated and controlled by cybernetic components, so without any energy being fed in... I've taken it to mean that the link between Asuka and Kyoko's souls is so strong that it no longer requires technological assistance; it's transcended.

If the sync had been active at the time, I suspect that the effects to Asuka would have been quite a bit worse than sympathetic pain.


That makes perfect sense in concert with Asuka's comments about "the meaning of the AT Field" and how elated she is at receiving her mother's love. It's Greek Tragedy-level ironic that getting the thing she wanted most led to her demise.

Though it does raise the question of how SEELE made such good reproductions of the Spear since it apparently sat around in Antarctica for 14-15 years and then the moment Gendo retrieved it he stuck it in Lilith.

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:44 pm

I think we can see failure to sync as equivalent to a sync ratio of zero; but it's just quibbling either way!
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:14 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:Asuka's mother inside the Eva doesn't have the same intentions as the one outside though.

Says who? Just coz the bad parts could have been separated doesn't mean they were.

Given that

-> Kyoko gets the ending she's repeteadly expressed the desire for: Dying with Asuka
-> This ending is heavily foreshadowed right before we see Kyoko prompting Asuka to fight

It seems more likely to me the good parts weren't cherrypicked for separation.
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:13 am

Her death is caused by external influence.
As for the Eva itself, we see it at its most powerful and protective.
I think it was all genuine because that way it's more of a downer afterwards, which I think is what Anno was going for.
There's also nothing telling us Kyoko could be deceiving her during the scene, but a lot telling us the opposite.
If Asuka had remained completely inactive, which is what would have happened if Kyoko had not intervened, she would just have died without even trying.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Asuka'sBigBrother » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:09 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:I think it was all genuine because that way it's more of a downer afterwards, which I think is what Anno was going for.

I'd argue Asuka having to seperate herself from her mother's desires aligns better thematically with EOE where the characters, including Shinji have to let go of the past to move on.
There's also nothing telling us Kyoko could be deceiving her during the scene, but a lot telling us the opposite.

You've yet to cite any of the evidence suggesting the opposite. You've also yet to address this which strongly supports my interpretation:
-> This ending is heavily foreshadowed right before we see Kyoko prompting Asuka to fight

Right Before Kyoko says "i want you to live" we get the following flash of images
-> Asuka's corpse
-> A doll eclisping Asuka

If the intention here was to have Asuka's mom show she wanted Asuka to live, it doesn't make sense to put this set of images here that shows
A. Asuka dying
B. Asuka being eclisped by the doll which Kyoko hung with herself.

Add in then that we get an ending where Asuka is killed with her mom and the evidene supporting my argument is a lot stronger than what you've presented so far which amounts to a second guessing of authorial intent.
If Asuka had remained completely inactive, which is what would have happened if Kyoko had not intervened, she would just have died without even trying.

Would instrumentality have happened if Shinji wasn't put into shock seeing Asuka's mangled eva? Would Shinji have chosen instrumentality intially? Even if you answer yes to both of these, and I don't think u can confidently do so, the symbolism and aforementioned foreshadowing still remains very strong evidence.
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Reichu » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:25 pm

Remember that there are Kyoko voices saying "Die with me!" and the like among the ones going "Live! You mustn't die!". I've seen it argued that these are just Asuka's imagination, but I was never quite sure on what basis the crazy voices could be deemed just Asuka's imagination whereas the loving voices are real, since they're given the same aural treatment in the film. (Start out distant, gradually get louder and louder; have that weird reverb effect.)

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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:21 pm

There is no reason both parts of her soul can't be there. Lilith's soul got put back together after Eva-00 went boom. Thus it's entirely possible for part of Kyoko to want her to live and another part to want her to die. That way we get maximum tragedy and irony. Why try to reduce this to an either-or?
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Re: Wait so how did Asuka die in EoE?

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Postby Reichu » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:10 pm

Relevant. This thread's recent activity is just an extension of that other one, come to think...


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