Commentary: Episode 07

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby Dr. Nick » Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:07 am

Okay, it's been years since I've been even tangentially involved with this stuff, so my apologies for being rusty. It might be because of my rustiness, but I'm a little confused/concerned about this bit by ath:

View Original Postath wrote:014:
Oh, and they forgot to fix the Yebichu/Yebisu branding issue in the Video releases, so enjoy your hamster-themed beer one more time.


I mean, this comment seems to imply a somewhat different branding issue that's described here. "Yebichu" is the new status quo, is it not, and thusly the original issue with a real-life brand is now history. Is this the first time the newly re-christened Yebichu appears? If yes, I'll try to craft a comment that includes a callback to the abovementioned episode 2 cut, and perhaps there could be a line or two about what a messed-up manga and anime Oruchuban Ebichu is.


******

Comments:


030:
So, is this the most creepily human-like thing Pen Pen does?

052:
The car lady pulls a Quattro.

055:
Even this single shot of Rei is kind of meaningful since it shows her in Gendo's trademark pose.

Speaking of this so-called Gendo pose, when I was younger and more eager, I had the bright idea of trying to catalogue instances of anime characters sitting in that pose, be it a probable reference or not. Just for shits and giggles. It was not until later on that I realized it was a dumbass idea, since the pose is everywhere, from Patlabor porn parodies to Oliver Stone's W., and even in anime it's been around decades before Eva. It's the sort of generic thing that you can hunt for when playing a drinking game (a double shot for both the pose and reflecting glasses).

074:
Definite shades of early installment weirdness in this scene, even though we are already in episode 7.


******

Non-comments / meta:

035: It'd be neat to have an actual explanation for Toji's fashion statement. Anyone?

055: To build on my public comment, can we please nuke this embarrassing page? Even though it's a joke, it's essentially an unmanageable joke. It would only work if I had the resources to keep it bloating forever and ever.

072: Another wiki-related shame of mine is that I've uploaded at least some botched DVD screenshots before I understood about aspect ratio changes and other assorted complications (and I admit I still don't fully get their logic). Essentially, someone would have to go through all of my screenshot submissions with a fine-toothed comb and adjust or delete any botched uploads. At this point I have neither time nor patience for such undertaking, but I'm straight-up willing to pay for some more eager soul to do the job. Real money, Paypal transfer. If anyone's interested, please contact me.

080: In places such as this where ADV's original Evanglion release used those fancy overlay translations (?), should we include their text somewhere? As I said, I've been out of the Evangelion game for a long time, but I do remember there's some pretty interesting info there. And since the Commentary Project's whole purpose is to be incredibly OCD, shouldn't we have an easily consultable list of those overlay translation spots? They are interesting, information-dense bits.

******

Will do the second half of the episode a little later.

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby ath » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:25 pm

Dr. Nick wrote:I mean, this comment seems to imply a somewhat different branding issue that's described here. "Yebichu" is the new status quo, is it not, and thusly the original issue with a real-life brand is now history. Is this the first time the newly re-christened Yebichu appears? If yes, I'll try to craft a comment that includes a callback to the abovementioned episode 2 cut, and perhaps there could be a line or two about what a messed-up manga and anime Oruchuban Ebichu is.

The way I wrote that comment might not be entirely clear, but both the wiki article and the Episode 2 comment are right. The episodes that aired on TV used "Yebichu" and the hamster logo every time the brand was fully visible, and those shots were later changed to "Yebisu" for the home video releases. But this being Evangelion, the animators who reworked the episodes missed a few of the cuts they should have replaced, thus leaving the original "Yebichu" in Episode 7.

Back in the Episode 2 comment days we didn't have the 2015 release of Archives of Evangelion, which makes this job a lot easier. There are a few other small changes in the first two episodes that should be fun to add to the Commentary, should we ever reopen the older episodes...

Dr. Nick wrote:It's the sort of generic thing that you can hunt for when playing a drinking game (a double shot for both the pose and reflecting glasses).

Well, there are a few shows that call it "the Gendo pose" themselves. I'm looking at you, Robotics;Notes!

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby Dr. Nick » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:39 pm

You're right, ath. Looks like I went all cross-eyed about what the home video status quo is because this such a complex, silly thing, and I'm so very rusty. So let's see if I understand the progression of these name changes correctly: Yebisu (TV original) -> Yebichu (TV altered) -> Yebisu (back to the original in the home video release, but with some Yebichus remaining as continuity errors). Correct?

So the problem here is not at all with ath's comment but rather with my insufficient understanding of the situation in the first place. In light of this, my original episode 2 comment is actually quite erroneous. It has multiple issues, in fact, and I'd like to see it fixed even though the episode is currently not "open". First of all, the link to the JAE FAQ is dead, and owing to new information, it's not as trusty these days as it once was. Much worse is the fact that the supposed "trusty" FAQ actually puts forward two contradictory stories! (Read closely: who wanted the brand name changed?) And there's even a double colon typo.

I tried to come up with a non-obtrusive way to fix the whole thing. How's this?

Dr. Nick: Now here's a fun detail: A few episodes from now, the beer brand magically changes into Yebichu. It's a continuity error with a suprisingly complex backstory, and back in the days of mailing-list-led discussions multiple different stories circulated about it, sometimes confusingly even within the same FAQ. For example, the JAE FAQ says:

The name of Misato's beer was changed to Yebichu when it was aired on TV and then to Yebisu for the Video release.* … Yebisu … is definitely a real beer. However, after complaints by the brewers, in episode 2 the name was changed to "Yebichu", which may also be a homage to a manga series, "Oruchuban [Ebichu]".
According to Carl Horn the brand name was retracted because the TV network which broadcast the series objected because the brewers of "Yebisu" did not advertise with them, and didn't want to give the brewers free publicity!


So what actually happened? We'll get back to that in episode 7. [link]


So, guys, would it be okay to tweak a clearly iffy episode 2 comment like this? It's a mess I caused, and I want to take responsibility.
With this tweak, Reichu's comment below it doesn't need any alterations, and all that's required is an idiot-proof explanation of the continuity issue on episode 7 cut 014. I'm sure ath can make that happen. It would also be a good place for Reichu to give a quick briefing about Oruchuban Ebichu and hamster perversions.

I also almost has a small panic attack when I realized I'd never actually created that Animation bloopers wiki page which would be really useful right about now. I promise I'll try to cobble together some kind of page skeleton for it later this week.

******

And there was a typo, as my Quattro comment was supposed to be one cut down in 053, where the screenshots really match.

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby imprimatur13 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:17 pm

Ummm... huh. According to the only version of the JAE faq apparently extant online,
The name of Misato's beer was changed to Yebichu when it was aired on TV and then to Yebisu for the Video release. Boa Beer and it's brand name "Kuroshio Bussan" are references to the Boa Juice from "Sora Tobu Yurei Sen" a 1969 SF anime movie.
Information supplied by Olivier Hagué

Which would make it much more straightforward, than what was originally quoted... Unfortunately, it also cuts out all the cool fun bits about executive meddling, brewer complaints, and hamster references.

I... don't know what to do here. The faq predates me by quite a bit. Even going on to the Wayback Machine, the quote is EXACTLY the same as above.

Which raises a good question: Unless I'm not realizing something important, it looks like the quote in the FGC apparently sprang up from nowhere. Dr. Nick, might you have some other source for it?

Dr. Nick wrote:And there was a typo, as my Quattro comment was supposed to be one cut down in 053, where the screenshots really match.

At least THAT was an easy fix. ^_^
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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby Dr. Nick » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:36 pm

View Original Postimprimatur13 wrote:Which raises a good question: Unless I'm not realizing something important, it looks like the quote in the FGC apparently sprang up from nowhere. Dr. Nick, might you have some other source for it?


Looks like it's some kind of fucky chimaira combining the JAE FAQ entry and this mailing list FAQ entry from Eva Sage's long dead site. And I have no recollection why it is like that.

So there goes what I hoped would be a fixed version of that comment down the toilet. Somebody please rewrite that shit for me.
Edit: or I guess it can still work if we simply fix the attribution: "For example, Eva Sage's mailing list FAQ says..."

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby imprimatur13 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:03 am

Thanks, Dr. Nick. It is done.
(Btw, anybody know why Reichu has an asterisk before her name there? Just wondering.)
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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby Dr. Nick » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:14 am

Thank you so much for fixing this embarrassing mess!

The asterisk is meant to mark a footnote, pointing to another asterisk that was in my original comment. So you should put the other asterisk back as well so the connection won't disappear.

******

Edit: some final comments:

080:
ADV's old home video releases of Evangelion actually used a curious method of hard-subbed overlays on top of certain text-heavy shots such as this. Perhaps owing to the less than stellar image quality of that era, some viewers didn't even realize it was an American edit and were left wondering why these Japanese kids were using English-language schoolbooks. I've seen this happen on the forums.

ADV's translation of this page reads:

Second Impact and the World Afterwards

1. Second Impact
In the final year of the 20th century on Septmeber 13. 2000 a massive meteorite fell on Mt Markham in Antarctica. More than two billion people in he southern hemisphere were immediately killed by the tsunami and rising water levels caused by the melted ice. This was the worst disaster mankind had faced in recorded History

2. Upheaval in the Northen Hemisphere
The Nations of the Northern Hemisphere also suffered severe damage from the flooding and chaos ensued. Two days after the fall of the meteorite on September 15. 2000, collisions between refugees sparked a war on the India-Pakistan border, and armed conflicts began all over the world. On September 20. an N-Bomb was dropped on Tokyo and 500 000 perople were killed. Until the Valentine Cease Fire was signed on Febuary 14. 2001, hostilities continued all over the world.

3. Transferring Second Tokyo
The Temporary Government of Japan gave up on restoring the Toko that had been destroyed by the N-Bomb, and the decision was made to transfer the capital to Masumoto City in Nagano. Construction of Tokyo 2 began in 2001. Redevelopment proceeded rapidly and by early 2003, Tokyo was fufilling its functions as the capital. In 2005 a second transfer was approved by Congress. Tokyo 3 is currently being built in Fuji-Hakone.

1. First Impact
This is also called the Giant Impact, a collision between a meteorite and Earth that resulted in the creation of the Moon. It is believed to of happened 4 billion years ago

2. Fall of a Massive Meteorite
The object which fell on Antarctica was less than 4 inches in diameter, a very small meteorite. However with an enormous velocity of 95% of the speed of light, its effective mass was more than 4.52 times squared to the 10th. Fifteen minutes before its impact, it was sighted by the Mexican Astonomer Ceimoa Nan. Picture of him below
Ceimoa Nan (1971~)


104:
Right next door are located the submerged ruins of Otakuland.

112:
And now, a brief corporate satire detour.

114:
No wonder the bottles are untouched. Would anyone even reach them?

121:
Such negativity. If anything, Imagawa's Giant Robo taught me that having an onboard nuclear reactor in your robot is the greatest form of insurance to have.

131:
You know, twenty thousand starving people doesn't sound too bad in a post-2I world.

199:
If you look up the fanciest status symbols in Japanese society, golfing is pretty high up there. It was especially so during the bubble economy years.

278 (in reply to Ursus):
Well, almost. There's "all molt beer" in cut 353.

359:
As Joseki already mentioned, episode 7 is usually ranked one of Evangelion's worst episodes, at least until things get really weird and divisive at the very end. But if this is indeed the worst it gets, the overall product is remarkably solid, especially if you compare it to things like Nadia's filler episodes. This episode is a good Misato showcase, lets us see more of Nerv's shadier side, and allows Anno to flex his satirist's chops decades prior to Shin Godzilla. Storywise it is largely inconsequential, but the idea of a random civilian company butting in with their goofy robot essentially got a non-canon remake in the visual novel Girlfriend of Steel, so there's that.

******

Non-comments / meta:
080: I found the overlay translation from a very old hand-typed notepad file, so it needs to be checked for wonkiness. And of course, a screenshot of the said overlay would be nice to have.

Cuts 114 and 124 have a typo (Ritusko)
181 - 182, 333: Why is Nuclear Lunchbox's name a link?

227: "withdraw the chopper"?

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby imprimatur13 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:24 am

View Original PostDr. Nick wrote:Thank you so much for fixing this embarrassing mess!

That's what we're here for. All is going according to plan... :emogendo:

Added the screenshot, and made the corrections. I was confused at first about the chopper, but then I realized they were in a plane. :tongue:

Always good to have people point out typos/other errors. Surprisingly, the editors are NOT infallible, so... if you see something, say something. Goes for all of you out there. ^_^
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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby Dr. Nick » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:26 am

Thanks, man. Nuclear Lunchbox's name is still a link in cut 333 though.

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby imprimatur13 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:29 am

Ah, so it is. Not easy, getting rid of all the nuclear links... Fixed now.
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Kyoko's Melons: Currently being completely rewritten, so... if anyone liked it so far, great. I did too. But... not enough. ;)

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby ath » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:36 pm

View Original Postthewayneiac wrote:That would be a great candidate for a supplemental page.

Well, it took longer than expected but it's finally here. Hope the DOS nerdiness won't scare away too many people. The FGC page style makes the page longer than I'd like, but we'll have to live with it.

I'd love if a native English speaker could take a look and help me clean it up a little, though.

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby The Flying Fortress » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:38 pm

194: When they focus the screen on Misato's mouth, they seem to be giving a credence of authority over the situation, it seems to sound like a rematch for all the embarrassment that Tokita has made and Ritsuko pass, now they are in control, Tokita is impotent.

252: Not shown, but I always found it very strange how Eva-01 ran to reach JA, disproportionately fast, compare in episode 12 when the Evas rush to stop Sahaquiel from invading the Geo-front, the way they run the much much more sense for your height and weight.

295: I do not understand much about physics, but he should not have taken his hand to plug JA's leak, do not you think? this would cause more pressure and explode faster :rolleyes:

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby Dr. Nick » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:18 pm

View Original Postath wrote:Well, it took longer than expected but it's finally here. Hope the DOS nerdiness won't scare away too many people. The FGC page style makes the page longer than I'd like, but we'll have to live with it.


This is a thing of beauty, exactly the sort of addition that makes me feel like the Old Commentary still has some life left in it, if people like this are contributing.

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby The Flying Fortress » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:35 am

I have more comments:

096: Because Misato can not dress like this during the whole series ?, especially in her work, I think this would help more to highlight her professional personality of the personal personality, besides, I have a small fetish for women wearing military clothes or the like.

331: YEEEE! This guy celebrates giving little jumps, that's funny, you can not deny it.

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Re: Commentary: Episode 07

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Postby kameha » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:33 pm

To be honest this episode was good, it showed a lot about Misto.
When I first watched the show at the age of 14 years old Misto was one of my favorite characters in Eva and I still like her but I can relate to the drinking, over all this episode shows that even though Misato is a slob and messy/lazy she's still good at her job and gets things done right, she is willing to push everything on the Evangelion's to get things done!


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