If Shinji were to die in the final film.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

Geometer
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 62
Joined: Dec 22, 2016

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Geometer » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:51 am

Part of eva is about accepting life no matter how awful it seems. Shinji dying either through suicide would greatly undermine that. Hell even a heroic sacrifice would feel like an easy way out that avoids Shinji's the real problem in a strange way. The only other way is death through execution or accidental during a battle or for some other reason. Eva isn't the kind of series where people drop dead out of no where for the sake of it so I would find the latter very unlikely. I highly doubt an execution either, it just doesn't fit with eva, and would pretty much nullify all eva messages. Shinji can't grow as a person if he is dead. So I don't think there would be much to gain from Shinji's death especially considering rebuilds haven't had the time to focus as much on the other characters.

The only believable reason if Anno actually wanted to through away the message of NGE or to attack the fans. It could be a "you've had your chances to but
you through them away" type deal as a condemnation of both Shinji in universe and the fans who love eva but never followed its message.

kuribo-04
Arael
Arael
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 865
Joined: Feb 03, 2013
Location: Germany again, before that Spain
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:37 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:A lot of people here seem to think that Shinji dying in the final film isn't going to happen because it would "undermine the message of Eva".


I'm pretty sure the last film will be about dealing with a past that you cannot recover.
After 3.0 shows that getting it back is impossible, now it's time to show how to deal with it.
And a dead person doesn't have to deal with anything.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
~('.'~) (~'.')~ Dancin Kirby

imprimatur13
Sachiel
Posts: 224
Joined: Jul 18, 2017

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby imprimatur13 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:39 pm

View Original Postkuribo-04 wrote:And a dead person doesn't have to deal with anything.

Hmmm... Unless.... Afterlife? (One never knows.)

P.S. I love the avatar. Kill La Kill is my new favorite show, after I watched it a few weeks ago. Ryuko-chan FTW!
My first fanfic: Neon Genesis Craig-Insertion
Kyoko's Melons: Chapter 1

Cybermat47
Sachiel
User avatar
Age: 18
Posts: 221
Joined: Jun 20, 2017
Location: NSW, Australia
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Cybermat47 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:11 pm

View Original Postimprimatur13 wrote:Hmmm... Unless.... Afterlife? (One never knows.)

P.S. I love the avatar. Kill La Kill is my new favorite show, after I watched it a few weeks ago. Ryuko-chan FTW!


SATSUKI KIRRRRRRYYYYYUUUUUUUIIIIIIIIIN!
My fanfics:
Evangelion 2.9: You Will (Not) Survive
Godzilla VS Evangelion: Who Will Know?

"I have to count my blessings, I have to learn my lessons, my fate is in the balance, I must go on believing!"
- Fate by Shirō Sagisu

C.T.1290
Tunniel
Age: 26
Posts: 196
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:29 am

I'm pretty sure that Asuka would want to kill him at some point, as do some other members in Wille. Because of what happened, it goes beyond a point of repair, so things could be over for him now.

It seems that the only way Shinji could make things up with the people he once cared about could be with his death, then we'll see how the others will feel.
ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL. ONE RING YOU TO FIND IT. ONE RING TO BRING THEM ALL AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM.

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9313
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:59 am

No; it will be hard for either side in the Shinji vsRest of the world face-off to learn to deal with the other, and it will also be hard for Anno to write that convincingly for everyone to accept - but not to do that, in the context of the point we've reached, would simply be a cop-out. And I don't think Anno will be going the cop-out route after all he's put into this story.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Kaworu starts to prepare Shinji for dual-piloting (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

C.T.1290
Tunniel
Age: 26
Posts: 196
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:48 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:No; it will be hard for either side in the Shinji vsRest of the world face-off to learn to deal with the other,

How will it be hard for Shinji and the others?

It's apparent that they don't want him around, so there's nothing left in it for him. No reason to be with the people who viewed him as a monster who ended the world. I'm sure that Wille wouldn't have any problems if he died at some point.

And also, some fans don't seem to like him as much, so I don't see how badly it would affect them. The same could be said for the Wille crew, such as Misato and Asuka.
ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL. ONE RING YOU TO FIND IT. ONE RING TO BRING THEM ALL AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM.

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9313
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:12 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:How will it be hard for Shinji and the others?

Lack of trust, both ways - the hardest aspect of failed relationships to rebuild.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Kaworu starts to prepare Shinji for dual-piloting (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Settie
Adam
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 70
Joined: Mar 17, 2017
Location: The deep south
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Settie » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:25 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote: No reason to be with the people who viewed him as a monster who ended the world. I'm sure that Wille wouldn't have any problems if he died at some point.



Technically they never said that, the one that told him the rest of humanity felt that way and blamed him for the state of the world was Kaworu, and he had ulterior motives for doing so.

Guy Nacks
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2788
Joined: Nov 28, 2012
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Guy Nacks » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:51 pm

Of all the things that Anno could conceivably do with the last entry in the series, I think that this is the least likely...by far.

I would sooner expect a five-way Asuka/Mari/Shinji/Rei/Sakura shipping confirmation than Shinji dying for good in Final.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

Lennik
Tunniel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 175
Joined: Apr 18, 2013
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lennik » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:35 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:I'm pretty sure that Asuka would want to kill him at some point, as do some other members in Wille.


Even though 3.0 completely contradicts this very idea in every way? Jesus, not this again.

C.T.1290
Tunniel
Age: 26
Posts: 196
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:39 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:Even though 3.0 completely contradicts this very idea in every way? Jesus, not this again.

How did it contradicts?
ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL. ONE RING YOU TO FIND IT. ONE RING TO BRING THEM ALL AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM.

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9313
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:10 pm

Simply the number of times when it would have been possible, even logical, for them to kill him - but they don't. Misato even appears to express frustration with him rather than anger, while Asuka goes back for him at the end.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Kaworu starts to prepare Shinji for dual-piloting (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 22641
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:26 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Misato even appears to express frustration with him rather than anger

Is this based on Allison Keith-Shipp's reading of "Shinji...!" toward the end? If so, Misato doesn't even sound frustrated in the original line reading -- more worried.
Avatar: "That's right. I'm a gay robot." (David 8 image by Junseo)
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9313
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:50 pm

It's the word that came to my mind listening to the Japanese (which I am more familiar with in this case). But yes, worry is good too. Either way, she's not saying: "I want you dead".
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Kaworu starts to prepare Shinji for dual-piloting (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

C.T.1290
Tunniel
Age: 26
Posts: 196
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:46 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Is this based on Allison Keith-Shipp's reading of "Shinji...!" toward the end? If so, Misato doesn't even sound frustrated in the original line reading -- more worried.

I saw the dubbed version of 3.0, and she does sound a little more angry/frustrated than being worried about him.
ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL. ONE RING YOU TO FIND IT. ONE RING TO BRING THEM ALL AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM.

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 22641
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:26 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:I saw the dubbed version of 3.0, and she does sound a little more angry/frustrated than being worried about him.

It's a complete misfire of voice direction, unfortunately. You should listen to the original performances at least once to help account for discrepancies like this.

The script comment for Misato's final "Shinji-kun..." is interesting, however cryptic. It says that Misato is "shinjitai", "wanting to believe". In what/who, exactly, it leaves to context. So I would assume that she's whispering "Shinji-kun..." under her breath because she's hoping that Shinji comes through. This calls back to Eva 1.01 when Misato declares to Gendo that she believes in Shinji. Back then, she did believe; now, she wants to believe.
Avatar: "That's right. I'm a gay robot." (David 8 image by Junseo)
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

Gendo'sPapa
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Posts: 4329
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Location: At the Movies
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:47 pm

3.0 is the first time Anno's work in the universe has moved towards subtlety. After the pretty straightforward 1.0 & the scream it loud emotionality of 2.0 Anno takes a strong turn into internalized conflict with the supporting cast. Even NGE is very loud & in your face when it comes to emotions.

Subtlety is sadly the first thing to go in changing language because the translators (dubbing actors) have to to put their spin on deliveries to feel authentic.

C.T.1290
Tunniel
Age: 26
Posts: 196
Joined: Apr 22, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.T.1290 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:22 pm

So, what would Shinji have to do to earn everyone's forgiveness and trust? And how will the people of WILLE make up for the cold treatment they've given to Shinji? Especially Misato and Asuka? From the look of things, they might have a lot of work to regain each other's trust. And it might take a long time, or it may never happen at all. And it's uncertain what will happen to Shinji or what WILLE plans to do to him.
ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL. ONE RING YOU TO FIND IT. ONE RING TO BRING THEM ALL AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM.

Joseki
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 399
Joined: Dec 27, 2016
Location: Italy
Gender: Male

Re: If Shinji were to die in the final film.

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joseki » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:55 am

I believe that in the real world all you need to do is sit at table, be yourself and be honest. At the same time I understand that in a narrative actions are also needed, especially for characters like Asuka.

My 2 cents (that I'm going to lose, it's Anno that is making the movie...) are on Shinji getting inside Unit 01 with the right intent at the right moment as a final redemption moment, similarly to 2.0 but hopefully with a different outcome. Anno loves callbacks and 3.0 had many callbacks to 1.0, so it would make sense if 3.0+1.0 had callbacks to 2.0 and the open plot points from that movie.
「希望は残っているよ。どんな時にもね」

29/07/2017


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests