Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
Moderator: Board Staff
Forum rules
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion and abide by them.
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion and abide by them.
- AdamMalkovitch
- Clockiel
- Age: 24
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Jul 23, 2017
- Location: Hell
- Gender: Male
- Contact:
Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
So Rei's body is a clone of that of Yui Ikari's, and she holds the soul of Lilith, while Kaworu holds the soul of Adam. Now I don't know if there's any solid evidence anywhere in NGE or EoE, but does anyone have any clue who's body Kaworu's was cloned from? It's likely someone from Seele, since they created him. A young Chairman Kiel maybe?
*injects Angel blood* I know what the fuck an EVA is now :)
- thewayneiac
- Committeeperson
- Posts: 1633
- Joined: Aug 26, 2004
- Location: How Kaworu got to the Moon
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
My pet theory is that he's a somehow gender-switched clone of Misato. There had to be some good reason why she was there. You don't normally take your daughter on a dangerous top secret mission just for the hell of it.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?
- Reichu
- Admin Emeritus
- Posts: 24046
- Joined: Aug 21, 2004
- Location: Sailing for the white shores
- Gender: Female
- Contact:
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
Two options:
A. Dr. Katsuragi
B. Random nobody
I'll take A.
This has come up many times in the past, so it's easier to just provide some links that reiterate all of the arguments:
thread/17483/Theories-Who-is-Kaworus-Donor/
thread/15487/What-was-Seele-trying-to-achieve-with-Adam-CE-Second-Impact/
thread/8629/Could-Kaworu-Rei-and-Shinji-be-siblings/
thread/2265/In-the-case-of-Kaworu/
thewayneiac: Your idea, pet theory or no, really doesn't make any sense. You seem intent on the idea that Misato has to be there for some nefarious reason that necessarily involves experimenting on her, when nothing bears this out. Why in the world would it be her DNA? What's so special about it that her dad brings her down there for the sole purpose of making HER the donor? There are plenty of potential donors already at the base for whom pesky questions like "why is Kaworu male if the donor is female?" and "why does Kaworu look nothing like the donor (when that's the side of the family he necessarily must be getting his looks from)?" do not need to be asked, which makes any one of them a far better option.
As for why Misato is there, it could be any number of perfectly sensible reasons.
A. Dr. Katsuragi
B. Random nobody
I'll take A.
This has come up many times in the past, so it's easier to just provide some links that reiterate all of the arguments:
thread/17483/Theories-Who-is-Kaworus-Donor/
thread/15487/What-was-Seele-trying-to-achieve-with-Adam-CE-Second-Impact/
thread/8629/Could-Kaworu-Rei-and-Shinji-be-siblings/
thread/2265/In-the-case-of-Kaworu/
thewayneiac: Your idea, pet theory or no, really doesn't make any sense. You seem intent on the idea that Misato has to be there for some nefarious reason that necessarily involves experimenting on her, when nothing bears this out. Why in the world would it be her DNA? What's so special about it that her dad brings her down there for the sole purpose of making HER the donor? There are plenty of potential donors already at the base for whom pesky questions like "why is Kaworu male if the donor is female?" and "why does Kaworu look nothing like the donor (when that's the side of the family he necessarily must be getting his looks from)?" do not need to be asked, which makes any one of them a far better option.
As for why Misato is there, it could be any number of perfectly sensible reasons.
Those reading my fic may wish to skip this for being too suggestive SPOILER: Show
Maybe her mom is dead and she doesn't have anyone else to stay with. (Quite possible -- custody in Japan defaults to the mother, so if she's with her dad instead...) Maybe her dad isn't all there in the head, and wants Misato to see the importance of his work first-hand, because he's laboring under the belief that it will make her better appreciate the reason he didn't pay enough attention to her when she was younger. Maybe he's the donor himself, and is pulling a Yui by wanting Misato to see him usher in the bright future or whatever. Picking and choosing something that isn't contrived should be simple enough.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
- TheCarkolum
- Tunniel
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Jun 07, 2017
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
Maybe is the original body of the guy who was merged with Adam?
“The tragedy of growing old is not that one is old but that one is young.” - Oscar Wilde
"Remember kids, a smart man knows when it's time to RUN LIKE A LITTLE BITCH!!"
"Remember kids, a smart man knows when it's time to RUN LIKE A LITTLE BITCH!!"
- AdamMalkovitch
- Clockiel
- Age: 24
- Posts: 403
- Joined: Jul 23, 2017
- Location: Hell
- Gender: Male
- Contact:
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
That's what I had gone with for a while up until a few minutes ago. Watching Death, when Ritsuko's mother chokes Rei I, you can see Kaworu reflected in her eyes when her head is upside down, and the pencil sketch of him with the red background flashes onscreen right before she dies. Seems like a really strange detail. Maybe, like how Lilith takes on both the form of Rei and Kaworu, he is somehow a genderswap of Rei's body? Although it is from the Manga release, so they might have just added that because they're Manga.
*injects Angel blood* I know what the fuck an EVA is now :)
- Kendrix
- Defender of Puppy Boy
- Age: 30
- Posts: 6697
- Joined: Jul 27, 2010
- Location: Germany
- Gender: Female
- Contact:
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
Whoever donated the DNA used in the contact experiment with Adam probably, though he seems to be considerably less human-esque than Rei & wasn't really shown to have the same hybrid frailties (pills etc.)
She couldn't remote control an EVA either, and he does still somehow 'count' as an individual Angel.
Could be someone we know with sybolic value (Gendo, Katsuragi, Keel) or just a random scientist, even a random person a cell culture was taken from.
If he was supposed to be a "gender-swapped Rei" the resemblance would've been pointed out more I think, or they'd have more similar color palettes (their hair being the same shade etc. ) - I think that bit from "Death" was more about either parallelism/aesthetic or his being Rei I's transistion guide.
She couldn't remote control an EVA either, and he does still somehow 'count' as an individual Angel.
Could be someone we know with sybolic value (Gendo, Katsuragi, Keel) or just a random scientist, even a random person a cell culture was taken from.
If he was supposed to be a "gender-swapped Rei" the resemblance would've been pointed out more I think, or they'd have more similar color palettes (their hair being the same shade etc. ) - I think that bit from "Death" was more about either parallelism/aesthetic or his being Rei I's transistion guide.
I wanted to try harvesting the rice
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
I wanted to hold Tsubame more
I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
Things "counting" as Angels doesn't mean much. We already know the number system is flawed, since it includes Adam, Lilith, Kaworu, and Lilin, yet never recognizes Rei as one. It's a fundamentally flawed system that only counts what it sees (and IMO, should only be used to describe Adam's children, not literally everybody). Rei is never counted because she never reveals herself. Her not being able to remote control an Eva is due to her lack of awareness of identity, not lack of ability; episode 24 tells us as much when her power level is equal to Kaworu's.
- Reichu
- Admin Emeritus
- Posts: 24046
- Joined: Aug 21, 2004
- Location: Sailing for the white shores
- Gender: Female
- Contact:
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
The show refers to a "contact experiment with the donor", which strongly implies that the donor was a live test subject. This is also implied by the use of the term "contact experiment" -- the two other procedures called this involve live test subjects, and NGE uses the word "contact" (sesshoku) in a more meaningful way than a mere cell culture could attain.
A live test subject also explains why an impact would be triggered in response to the contact, working from analogy with Gendo triggering Rei (Lilith) and the hypothetical impact triggered by an Angel reaching Lilith.
Dr. Katsuragi is the only named character who could reasonably be the donor, because he was actually there to participate and he, unlike Misato, is male. The limited glimpse of him also works out far better in terms of physical resemblance -- his face has a rather typical biseinen shape. Hence the two options I listed upstream.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog
- SawItAtAge10
- Gaghiel
- Age: 34
- Posts: 373
- Joined: Feb 20, 2013
- Location: Sea of LCL
- Gender: Male
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
I know this might be a bit over reaching, but is it possible that when Akira touches Adam, she takes his hand ala Gendo and Rei, thus giving her the designated "Lilin DNA" and letting him go afterwards (just like how we see Gendo sort of just standing there as GNR floats off in EoE)?
This would not only explain his part in the triggering of Second Impact, but also as to why we see him alive long enough to save Misato just before everything goes BOOM! and Adam's Chamber of Guf opens.
What do you think?
Also, Greek mythology describes the Giant Impact meteor as "Theia," mother to the being that created the moon. In Greek mythology, the moon is also associated with Hecate, a three headed goddess of witchcraft. Given the connection to Lilith, Rei, and the Moon, do you suppose Anno did some research regarding Greek Mythology to come up with Rei's associations OR is it possible this is just a HUGE coincidence?
What do you think?
FROM EVANGELION:
"Acts of Man are greater than acts of God!"
"I'm saying that I love you."
NOT FROM EVANGELION:
"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."
"Acts of Man are greater than acts of God!"
"I'm saying that I love you."
NOT FROM EVANGELION:
"You are excrement. You can change yourself into gold."
- thewayneiac
- Committeeperson
- Posts: 1633
- Joined: Aug 26, 2004
- Location: How Kaworu got to the Moon
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
AdamMalkobitch wrote:That's what I had gone with for a while up until a few minutes ago. Watching Death, when Ritsuko's mother chokes Rei I, you can see Kaworu reflected in her eyes when her head is upside down, and the pencil sketch of him with the red background flashes onscreen right before she dies. Seems like a really strange detail. Maybe, like how Lilith takes on both the form of Rei and Kaworu, he is somehow a genderswap of Rei's body? Although it is from the Manga release, so they might have just added that because they're Manga.
Manga didn't add any extra animation that I'm aware of. My thought has always been that the Kaworu reflection is Rei III using a Kaworu avatar to collect Rei One's soul. Similarly, the Gendo image as Rei II self destructs is Rei III collecting Rei Two's soul in Gendo guise. This explains why all three are in instrumentality as seperate beings despite all having Lilith's soul.
Rejoice, glory is ours. Our young men have not died in vain. Their graves need no flowers. The tapes have recorded their names.
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?
I am all there is.
Negative! Primative! Limited! I let you live.
But I gave you life.
What else could you do?
To do what was right.
I'm perfect, are you?
- silvermoonlight
- Former Moderator
- Posts: 2227
- Joined: Jun 19, 2016
- Location: UK
- Gender: Female
- Contact:
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
I think it's Kozo Fuyutsuki because he says hello father in rebuild when he sees both Gendo and Kozo in space and I thought he can't be referring to Gendo, which made me think his father must be Kozo.
Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy.
My Eva fanfiction ff.net Fading In To The Stolen Light For download version please go to AO3
Sequel As The Divine Light Breaks For download version please go to AO3
My Eva fanfiction ff.net Fading In To The Stolen Light For download version please go to AO3
Sequel As The Divine Light Breaks For download version please go to AO3
- Arcadia's legacy
- Nerv Employee
- Age: 27
- Posts: 1255
- Joined: Jun 12, 2015
- Location: United Kingdom
- Gender: Male
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
You forget that NTE Kaworu lives in a different continuity, which likely means a different origin, especially considering how different he is from his NGE counterpart
Never let the flame that is hope burn out, for despite the length of the night, the sunrise will always come
""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu
""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu
- silvermoonlight
- Former Moderator
- Posts: 2227
- Joined: Jun 19, 2016
- Location: UK
- Gender: Female
- Contact:
Re: Who was Kaworu's body a clone of?
Good point I had not considered that and that may explain why those two look very different in some respects as the manga/anime one has greyish hair where as the rebuild one its really white.
Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy.
My Eva fanfiction ff.net Fading In To The Stolen Light For download version please go to AO3
Sequel As The Divine Light Breaks For download version please go to AO3
My Eva fanfiction ff.net Fading In To The Stolen Light For download version please go to AO3
Sequel As The Divine Light Breaks For download version please go to AO3
Return to “Evangelion TV Series + EoE Discussion”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests