Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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C.T.1290
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Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:57 pm

Not sure if this was done before. If it was, and this ends up being a copy, I apologise for it.

Out of all the people aboard the Wunder, Mari and Sakura seems to be the only people who didn't blame Shinji for the Third Impact or treat him badly like how Misato and Asuka did( with them being so indifferent towards him). Why is that? Why is it that the two of them didn't treat him so coldly like the others did?
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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby Sachi » Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:29 pm

When Sakura tells Shinji not to get in an Eva again, and to "give them a break", she's acknowledging his fault for N3I.

The most Mari acknowledges is that Shinji needs to learn more about the world, after 4I is averted. She recognizes that he's being used, but doesn't really blame him for it.

They're also the least attached to Shinji of the four you mention. Misato and Asuka have long pent up emotions regarding Shinji, whereas Mari is more or less indifferent and Sakura gives him the benefit of the doubt. Everybody else is just wary of him.
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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby Joseki » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:17 pm

I won't put Mari and Sakura on the same level: Mari never showed any negative feeling towards Shinji, she was very supportive and calm.
Sakura was passive aggressive swinging from "yai Shinji-kun I'm a cute nice girl" to "you'll never ever live without the active choker on your neck ready to make you explode".
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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby Settie » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:29 pm

Well Sakura is relatively young, so her knowledge may not be as expansive as Maris'. She knows about N3i and Shunjis role in it so while she treats him well there's some apprehension there as well. Though not enough to outright condemn him.

Mari has always struck me as a glass half full type person, that combined with how knowledgeable she seems to be would mean she would know that Shinji is a hapless idiot caught up in a chess game between Gendo and Seele. It'd make no sense for her to blame him for being manipulated. i think that's why she also tells him to stop being naive and get to know the world, so he'd have the knowledge to not jump blindly into action.

Besides, using Misato and Asuka as a measuring stick isn't the best idea. Both Misato and Asuka (especially Asuka) get triggered by Shinji due to their previous relationship with him, there's emotional baggage already built-in in their reaction to him. I mean just look at Ritsuko, she also doesn't really blame him, just helps in taking precautionary steps while attempting to get him caught up.

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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:43 am

View Original PostSettie wrote:Besides, using Misato and Asuka as a measuring stick isn't the best idea. Both Misato and Asuka (especially Asuka) get triggered by Shinji due to their previous relationship with him, there's emotional baggage already built-in in their reaction to him.

What do you mean by using them as the measuring stick?
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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby jcmoorehead » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:12 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:What do you mean by using them as the measuring stick?


Basically that comparing other peoples reactions to Shinji using Asuka or Misato as a base comparison might not work as well because those two were more intimately involved with Shinji before N3I whilst characters such as Mari & Sakura not so much. Mari had barely met Shinji, Sakura would have known about him but it was doubtful she met him.

Asuka and Misato on the other hand had lived with him. Misato was basically like a mother to him for those months he was there and Asuka was his friend, had a romantic interest in him and of course was the victim in the Unit 03 incident. They're more emotionally invested when it comes to Shinji than the others are.

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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:32 am

View Original Postjcmoorehead wrote:Basically that comparing other peoples reactions to Shinji using Asuka or Misato as a base comparison might not work as well because those two were more intimately involved with Shinji before N3I whilst characters such as Mari & Sakura not so much. Mari had barely met Shinji, Sakura would have known about him but it was doubtful she met him.

Asuka and Misato on the other hand had lived with him. Misato was basically like a mother to him for those months he was there and Asuka was his friend, had a romantic interest in him and of course was the victim in the Unit 03 incident. They're more emotionally invested when it comes to Shinji than the others are.

Yeah, it's too bad things went downhill between them, beyond a point of repair. Now it seems that Misato, Asuka, and possibly the entire crew of the Wunder want him dead to relieve their problems.
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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby jcmoorehead » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:02 am

I don't think they want him dead. if they did Asuka would have simply left him behind to rot at the end of 3. I certainly think the relationship can be repaired but it's not going to be an easy process, it's going to take a lot of sitting down and talking between Shinji and others. Time will heal the wounds, especially when Shinji is given a proper explanation as to what happened and understands why people are acting the way they are and vice versa. They will need to understand why Shinji might have acted the way he did.

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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:44 pm

View Original PostJoseki wrote:I won't put Mari and Sakura on the same level


I think it's more that they're coming from different positions.


Sakura is just being a good person, like, she likely gets that he's just as kid & tries to be nice but there's some underlying clamness & awkwardness because of what happened. that She's only human after all; I wouldn't call that "two-faced" or "passive-aggressive", she's probably trying hard to be fair to him but can't overlook the death of her family & that's an admirable thing, she can't turn off her feelings with a button.
At least she tried being nice unlike the barely restrained reactions of Misato & Ritsuko or Asuka outright venting at him without telling him why.
I don't think it's just her being 'unnatached'... The Pink haired Wille girl didn't know him and she seemed especially angry meanwhile Ritsuko just knew him professionally and she's still all "punishment for you sin" & not bothering with the surface professional politeness, though she finds it easier to, like, speak to him without emoting whereas Misato is probably investing mental energy in supressing or handling her former attachment cumulating in the moment where she can't bring herself to kill him.

Mari is more comparable to Kaworu: They both know what's being played & that Shinji's just an unlucky pawn (and not any less of one than anybody else - they're all acting "within expected parameters") Markedly Mari and Kaworu are the only ones that realize that Fourth Impact was set up by Gendo, and even they ouldn't stop things from going as he wanted - It was either play his game or let a SEELE impact occur.
She talks as if there were nothing particular about him, like playully asking Asuka if she's visited him or telling him to hold out since she's comming to save her. "Don't get duped again!" is hardly a sign of hostility it's good advice - insofar it's not too different from the way their conversation at the end of 2.22 went, as if nothing's changed.
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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby mammaluser » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:02 am

It might be just a thing of perspective, Sakura's young and not everyone fully knows what's really the truth (as in if he was inside unit-01 he has all the fault and stuff), on the other side Mari knows what's really happening, knows that Shinji was merely being manipulated.
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Re: Why didn't Mari and Sakura blame Shinji for NTI?

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:31 pm

Sakura just seems to be keeping her interactions with Shinji professional, which changes somewhat as he's about to escape with the Ayanami series girl. Otherwise, she's his nurse/aide so it makes sense she'd behave that way.

Mari on the other hand is somebody who doesn't conform to behaviors or opinions that society would consider normal, which is corroborated by her first interaction with Shinji directly after crashing into him was to invade his personal space and smell him. Her willingness to sacrifice Unit-05 without hesitation as a means to win and to also engage Unit-02's beast mode also kind of help to explain her from a psychological stand point as well. She doesn't conceptualize the world or reality in the same ways most people would either because she's entirely willing to lose her humanity and even jump headlong into what could be certain death. Her unconventional behavior and the otherwise lighthearted and jovial manner she goes through the entirety of 3.33 displaying (even when she says something serious to Shinji she does so in a way that almost makes it seem like she isn't taking her message seriously, telling him he could at least save the princess and whatnot) prove enough to me that she's an individual that doesn't react to things much or almost at all on an emotional level. Her emotional distance in this case allows her to be much more understanding of what's happened to some degree, and even more I think it's not so much that she doesn't hold Shinji responsible for things but that she is willing to let the past stay where it is and judge him based on what he's doing in the present.


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