C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby Gob Hobblin » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:50 am

^

That actually sounds like a great fanfic idea.
Though, Gob still might look good in a cocktail dress.
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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:28 am

View Original PostGob Hobblin wrote:^

That actually sounds like a great fanfic idea.



Perhaps... but the point I was intending to make is that they're not "two people who share the same traumas" like a pair of peeps who happen to be soldiers or domestic abuse victims or whatever- as far as the events involving EVAs are concerned, the other person is entertwines with the source/cause of their pain & there's a chance that having the other present will trigger/retraumatize them or just set them on edge. Lots of sensitive issues, buttons & bad blood there.


This is particularly true for Asuka. It may not be what objectively happened but on some level she views what happened to her as "Things didn't go my way because the other pilots were there" - There's many layers to unpack there but the experience of being "trumped" is something she's gonna have to bring to awareness, vocalize, process, let go off & reconceptualize. She's been denying her pain & vulnerability & needs to express it - but it's not gonna do eiher of them much good if that happens while Shinji's in the next room hearing her talk crap about himself, even if it's crap he's actually guilty of (all the more of a reason for Asuka to have a legitimate grievance she'll need to work through), not to speak of her talking crap about his friends. (including Rei - If she doesn't come back there might be a 'speaking ill off the dead' situation there)

At the point of developement they're at now they can probably manage to survive/cooperate/not kill each other until Misato detangs but actually healing is a differentpair of shoes. To begin with they are, in different ways, far too identified with their roles as EVA pilots & should be exploring/adapting to life outside of it instead of making it the basis of their decisions - this doesn't mean they should neccesarily break with the other pilots indeed this is a journey that they could take together... if they had reasons to want to be near each other other than "well I was an EVa pilot & so were they."
They both deserve to vent their side of the story but ideally not in each other's faces.

I mean think of it...

Shinji: I feel so bad because of what I did I wish I could just erase/forget it but I can't TT_TT
Asuka: * sarcastic/indignant * Boohoo, poor you, can't imagine how bad it must be, it's so much easier to be the one who was actually wanked on -.-

Not saying he should get the kid gloves but he's prolly better off with firm constructive criticism than the raw, angry shrieks of someone who's too hurt/desperate to modulate herself.


The most believable scenario would be one where they meet again as adults, having worked through their issues to the degree that they can see each other with less preconceptions (which, to their credit, isn't too uncommon a scenario for ff writers to actually do) - but of course, if you take away their shitty self esteem you removed the only thing they ever had in common...
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Re: Why didn't Shinji finish Asuka off in EOE?

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Postby zlink64 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:41 pm

He was just caressed by his mom a scene prior.
Asuka probably reminded him of his mother's caress and whatever themes, lessons are associated with that so he stopped. The card isn't mutually exclusive reason imo. Like the scene/Shinji can have many concurrent and related reasons for doing what he did.

Also since in a lot of ways its a continuation of the other strangle scene so Anno is probably trying to say something since Asuka and Shinji seem to have changed since the last strangulation moment based of their different actions on the 2nd go around.
hmmm

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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:57 pm

Am I the only one who thinks that their relationship might be similar to Negi Springfield's and Asuna Kagurazaka's from the Negima series, seeing how both Asuna and Asuka are so similar when comes to looks and personality (both red haired with pigtails, and a firey temper), and how they both treat the male protagonist in their Tsundere manner? And also, they both had a crush on a older male character, like almost twice their age.
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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby Ray » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:25 pm

I found this article from the bowels of the circa 90's early 2000s internet that I think may be relevant to this discussion.

Link

Edit: Fixed Link. Hope it works now.

Edit 2: Nope Still no go. and when I go into edit to fix the small a Big A problem it just resets itself.
Last edited by Ray on Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby xanderkh » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:57 pm

^

Link's broken. :P
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby ErgoProxy » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:13 pm

Yes. You have to belittle Asuka to small-letter asuka to make the link work.

It's this local, automated spell-checker which broke it.

Whoopie! Here it is, hopefully working on your machine, as it works on mine.
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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby Irohas » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:20 pm

Aww I wouldn't say it's completely out of the question ><

But it's very true that currently - post 3I they're definitely not fit to love or be in a healthy relationship with anyone for that matter. Given some time I believe anyone, no matter their issues, can work through them and find a way to be happy together(aside from cheating of course.)

"Love didn't just happen to us, we built it slowly over the years stone by stone." A quote from game of thrones.

Sure they've been through a lot, which naturally make them feel for one another and empathize with what the other has gone through. But as 14 year old teenagers, though they came to understand and accept each other, it would be insanely hard for them to enter and stay in a relationship since they have so many issues with each other and themselves that they need to overcome.

With that being said they do have a very special bond, stemming from their similar experiences and personal struggles. The retorts on the link above me showed good rebuttals to events that made people think they were meant to be, but it's completely subjective and opinion based. Even if some of their interactions together seem detrimental to the point where they shouldn't ever be a couple, only they can decide what they can and can't cope with.

They didn't really change presumably until post Instrumentality, meaning their true growth and shaping into new individuals begins after the End of Evangelion. This gives hope to the fact that they may one day be able to love one another or as someone said in an earlier post, finding something irreplaceable within each other.

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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby Geometer » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:55 pm

Everyone been debating could they? But just as important question is should they? I mean maybe its better that they go their separate ways and not dwell on each other too much. Sure they have similar baggage being eva pilots and deep seeded parental issues but is that enough form a healthy relationship? I don't think so, maybe a co-dependent relationship that keeps them half functioning but not something healthy. I think their best bet is to focus on themselves. Could they try again some time in the future when they are more mature? I suppose but by then who knows what they will be like and they may have even found someone else along the way. So I say they could, love each other, but should they try? I don't think so, they both have deal with themselves first and foremost and when thats over perhaps.

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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby Sachi » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:18 am

^Maybe I'm pessimistic about relationships in general, but I feel like you could apply the "should they?" argument to anybody and the answer will always be no (or not yet). They say you should focus on yourself before attempting to forge relationships with others, but how many people actually and legitimately complete that first stage of figuring oneself out? Is that stage ever really completed? Also, if one does figure themselves out and becomes self-reliant, what appeal do they find in co-dependent relationships afterward? Seems to me like reaching that zen mindset would preclude anybody from entering such arrangements or wanting such attachments.

Tl;Dr: love is the paradox of need and nobody is qualified. If you need it, then you should not be able to have it; if you're able to have it, then you should not need it.
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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby xanderkh » Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:24 pm

^
You guys seem to be taking this whole discussion on Asuka and Shinji to a negative extreme when comes to their relationship, in that there has to be a GUARANTEE of success between them, or they shouldn't even bother with each other.

But the thing about relationships, if anything, is that relationships are a lot like life itself: There IS NO GUARANTEE of success. It's quite possible that Shinji and Asuka for them to get together, but then down the line they realized that what they were looking for isn't in each other, or it could go it could go the other way, and they stay together because they discover something between themselves. The possibilities are endless. Some relationships can withstand the tests of time, but others needs to crash and burn for them to move on. People change, it's how we grow.

But the crux of this argument is, they have to TRY. Why do you think the phrase, "It's better to have love than lost, then to have never loved at all" is so popular? Because it's true! Relationships require the effort to not only to begin, but also the effort to sustain it, not only through the bad times, but also the good times. But it requires an effort on an equal part of both partners. If both of them are putting in the effort, but both of them still find something in each other that they despise, then they can break up, they have that option, but at least they have something to work on so they can try again with someone else in a better fashion.

Again, the crux of this, is they have to try. Trial and error, that's really what it boils down to.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby TheCarkolum » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:25 am

Does anybody think that this is one of the best EVA threads ever?
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Re: Is it impossible for Shinji and Asuka to love one another?

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Postby Irohas » Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:02 pm

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:^
You guys seem to be taking this whole discussion on Asuka and Shinji to a negative extreme when comes to their relationship, in that there has to be a GUARANTEE of success between them, or they shouldn't even bother with each other.

But the thing about relationships, if anything, is that relationships are a lot like life itself: There IS NO GUARANTEE of success. It's quite possible that Shinji and Asuka for them to get together, but then down the line they realized that what they were looking for isn't in each other, or it could go it could go the other way, and they stay together because they discover something between themselves. The possibilities are endless. Some relationships can withstand the tests of time, but others needs to crash and burn for them to move on. People change, it's how we grow.

But the crux of this argument is, they have to TRY. Why do you think the phrase, "It's better to have love than lost, then to have never loved at all" is so popular? Because it's true! Relationships require the effort to not only to begin, but also the effort to sustain it, not only through the bad times, but also the good times. But it requires an effort on an equal part of both partners. If both of them are putting in the effort, but both of them still find something in each other that they despise, then they can break up, they have that option, but at least they have something to work on so they can try again with someone else in a better fashion.

Again, the crux of this, is they have to try. Trial and error, that's really what it boils down to.


Yass this is so true.. The Live Action Segment was a good example of this. Without Shinji, life goes on, the uncertainty and happiness/unhappiness of the people he cares about will always be around. We see Asuka in a relationship but unable to indicate if what she feels for Toji is love/lust, though she displays disappointment when he doesn't call, I feel like this was meant for us to understand that no matter how much growth Asuka goes through she's still flawed, in need of the attention and affection of another.

I believe the segment was another message to us that without our efforts, we can never explore the possibilities, like if Shinji could've made Asuka happier with him and more sure if what she was feeling was love or lust. He has to try because even without him, the chance at happiness/sadness exists and the best he can do is continue to attempt to grow and learn with those around him for a chance at being happy and helping the people he cares about feel the same. We also get a bit of verification as to how he feels about her, instead of following Rei/Misato's life, he follows Asuka and calls out to her in the end. The first one who comes to his mind and probably the closest one to his heart. It's apparent how much Evangelion has to do with their relationship, so I honestly can't see them never trying at something at least once.

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How much does Asuka care about Shinji?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:34 pm

A lot of people have pointed out that Asuka may have a certain attraction towards Shinji, while in the Series, she was quite rude to him, and even more so towards the end and in the sequence in EoE.

A lot of us on here are fairly certain that Asuka has some feelings for the boy. But despite that, I'm still a little skeptical of that and have a hard time believing in that considering of how harshly she treated him, as if he were second class. These days, I just wonder on how much she cares about him, if she even does at all. And that's even more apparent in the Rebuild films that she has some resentment towards him, probably a little more than she did in the series.

I'm not sure if this sort of thread has been done before. If it has, then I apologise for creating an unnecessary copy of it.
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Re: How much does Asuka care about Shinji?

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:04 pm

Honestly I think it's a bit of a stretch to say she's actually attracted to him. Her behavior towards Shinji when she's first introduced is geared more towards getting his attention and getting him to interact with her. Her comment about him being a boring boy after talking about thermal expansion and her breasts seems to corroborate this.

Her behavior later in the series seems to reflect that of a confused, young teenage girl who's dealing with being rejected by the older man she has a crush on and has even made sexual advances towards, deep seated issues involving her childhood trauma involving her mother's suicide and the impact that likely has had on her ability to properly comprehend and fully understand what to love and be loved actually means, and unconscious drives toward romantic and sexual experimentation resulting from the slough of hormones she's got going (being that she's a pubescent girl and all).

To me, it seems more like Asuka is struggling to make some kind of connection with somebody, and the way a male can connect with a straight female is rather unique. She craves contact and connection but at the same time, her craving isn't aimed specifically at any particular person (other than maybe Kaji). She's just sexually frustrated and emotionally troubled, so she tries kissing, showing off to, and getting the attention of the boy she's been forced to live in close quarters with.

I admit that this is really just my opinion, but I used to believe Asuka and Shinji both at least wanted to like each other romantically when I was younger myself. Now I really don't think that's really the case for either of them, and they're both just so utterly isolated and alone, yet physically always near each other that some of the situations they wind up in seem to imply some kind of romantic connection that doesn't actually exist.

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Re: How much does Asuka care about Shinji?

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Postby Geometer » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:20 pm

View Original PostStrokeMeGoat wrote:I admit that this is really just my opinion, but I used to believe Asuka and Shinji both at least wanted to like each other romantically when I was younger myself. Now I really don't think that's really the case for either of them, and they're both just so utterly isolated and alone, yet physically always near each other that some of the situations they wind up in seem to imply some kind of romantic connection that doesn't actually exist.

I think the best way to describe their thoughts towards each other is they each want to the other to love them, but are unable or unwilling to reciprocate and more importantly make the first move.

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Re: How much does Asuka care about Shinji?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:25 pm

View Original PostStrokeMeGoat wrote:To me, it seems more like Asuka is struggling to make some kind of connection with somebody, and the way a male can connect with a straight female is rather unique. She craves contact and connection but at the same time, her craving isn't aimed specifically at any particular person (other than maybe Kaji). She's just sexually frustrated and emotionally troubled, so she tries kissing, showing off to, and getting the attention of the boy she's been forced to live in close quarters with.

So basically, it's the whole "anybody will do" thing Asuka had accused Shinji of?
I admit that this is really just my opinion, but I used to believe Asuka and Shinji both at least wanted to like each other romantically when I was younger myself. Now I really don't think that's really the case for either of them, and they're both just so utterly isolated and alone, yet physically always near each other that some of the situations they wind up in seem to imply some kind of romantic connection that doesn't actually exist.

So the two never really loved each other in the first place, huh? And their relationship was forced because one person was just there for the other's convenience? And people on here were so certain that these two have the potential to be each other's love interests, but I guess that would just be a naive way thinking, considering their circumstances and their interactions. I guess it's true that the two of them could never like nor love one another. Unless, if I'm just thinking negatively that Instrumentality couldn't change them for the better and they might get along better than they did before.
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby xanderkh » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:30 pm

^

It's not that it isn't possible or any relationship never EXISTED in the first place, or that they're doomed to hate each other C.T., it's just that because of both their upbringing and their defensive personalities prevent them from trying to break the shell of defenses that they have around their hearts. Asuka is extroverted, because she doesn't want to let people in and hurt her. Shinji is the same way, accept he retreats inward, and does what people tell him out of fear of rejection.

Both are by-products of the fear of loneliness, and because the fear of being hurt by others is so deep, they're afraid either to make the first move and make that risk. But, that's the risk you take when you invite someone into your life: The risk of being hurt by another is balanced by the possibility of being loved.
It's just that both are to afraid of being hurt, that they don't make the first move and just keep each other at arms length.

They just didn't realize, or at least try to discover, that people are made of sterner stuff, that even if it is harsh to let people in, the benefits outweigh the risks. :)
They're just too fragile.
"You're na�ve, Cecil. Even knowing betrayal and despair, you would depend on the whims of others?" - Golbez
---------------------------------------
Sephiroth: "Do you miss the Light?"
Golbez: "Hmph...I merely have duties to fulfill."
Sephiroth: "Too close to the brightness, and you may get scorched."
Golbz:.............
Golbez: Your loss can strengthen you.

"NGE Shinji is broken, Manga Shinji is an asshole, Rebuild Shinji is an idiot. Which is best? Uh, can I get some other options? All of these really suck." -Bagheera

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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby imprimatur13 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:23 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:STAFF EDIT: in order to keep things tidy, multiple threads started by C.T.1290 that more or less covered the same ground have now been consolidated into this one location.

I love this. I love EGF. (I also love looking at the "thread graveyard" every now and again...) The mods here have a sense of humor. "C.T.1290 v. Asuka"... :asuka_thumbsup:
Last edited by imprimatur13 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C.T.1290 versus Asuka. Examining the good and bad.

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Postby C.T.1290 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:48 am

View Original Postimprimatur13 wrote:I love this. I love EGF. (I also love looking at the "thread graveyard" every now and again...)

Well then, post all you like. I'm looking to getting this thread moving forward. :)
ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL. ONE RING YOU TO FIND IT. ONE RING TO BRING THEM ALL AND IN THE DARKNESS BIND THEM.

"KONO DIO DA!"-Dio


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