GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby TheCarkolum » Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:34 pm

I am almost surprised that nobody has wondered this before. GNR already knew that Shinji was going to reject instrumentality before asking him or what?? I got lost with that one :sniffle:

And speaking of that, GNR did it to herself? It was Yui? Weird...
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby Reichu » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:26 am

More specifically, GNR's neck began to rip open. Her head didn't actually fall off until later.

My best guess is that we see GNR start to self-destruct before HIP actually ends as a sign that she was going to die anyway. Eva-01, not Lilith, is the vessel for humanity's complemented souls. Lilith basically took over the role the MP Evas were going to play (hence why she "absorbed" them), that being to guide the souls to their (supposed) final resting place and orchestrate the creation of the Singular Being (Adam Kadmon reborn). But regardless of HIP's final outcome, I think Lilith intended to act as a "womb" wherein Eva-01 would "gestate" into an ascended state; and upon completing this task, Lilith would be free to die at last.
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby TheCarkolum » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:24 am

Eva-01, not Lilith, is the vessel for humanity's complemented souls


But wait a minute, Isn't Lilith the one that permitted collect all the souls, bring them to her egg, open the chamber of Gauf and join them all? I mean, the Eva-01 is indeed a god, but it was the anti-AT field of Lilith the one which merges all souls into one, and the Tree of Life doesn't have a Chamber of Gauf (I think, honestly idk). I always thought that GNR absorbed the tree of life BECAUSE Shinji, to be him who is up to decide.

I think Lilith intended to act as a "womb" wherein Eva-01 would "gestate" into an ascended state


But... OMG :D :D Isn't it already the most supreme being? When the EVA-01 breaks out the eye, it seems to me that the EVA-01 is the same dude that turned into the tree of life, that is, a God. You mean that Lilith helped the EVA to achieve... something?

she was going to die anyway


Well that's tragic... and non-sensical to me. Her AATF is still active. Why can't she live forever with her children, the Lilim?
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:25 pm

IIRC, her neck rips open and the blood starts to spray right after Shinji and Rei get finished discussing the difference between realities and dreams, and Shinji asks where his reality is. The whole live-action sequence is taking place during the period where Shinji has essentially chosen to create a world where he has closed himself off, and the dialogue between him and Rei leads to the dissolution of that world (which, according to their conversation, was basically the equivalent of a dream). This leads to Shinji (and Rei) returning to reality in the sea of LCL, and causes GNR's neck splitting and blood spurting.

The rest of GNR falling apart and whatnot is the consequence of Shinji deciding to fully reject instrumentality. Why these two specific things caused the two specific reactions they did is something more to discuss.

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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby TheCarkolum » Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:55 pm

The point clearly is to determine in what precise moment Shinji rejects instrumentality. And I disagree that it's in the live action sequence. First of all, he is not asked to do anything, nothing should happen. He just talks to Rei about reality and dreams, saying that the sequence is just a dream where.Shinji is capable of living with others, and at the same time to be happy, you know, 'you can only be happy in your dreams'. But the reality is not like that, and we jump into reality itself, that is, the LCL sea. Shinji says "but this is wrong". If he had already rejected instrumentality he wouldn't say that. Moreover, in the next scene Kaworu asked him "Do you want the AT Fields to exist?" That's clearly when everything begins.
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby Sachi » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:12 pm

Having gone over the script a bit, here's my current interpretation:

GNR neck begins to gush out blood at the end of the live action sequence, immediately after the questioning of dreams versus reality. The sequence is to demonstrate that Shinji was attempting to substitute reality. He questions reality, and Rei explains that what he's truly confused is the gap between the realities of himself and others. He says he doesn't know where to find happiness, and she explains that he's been searching for happiness in fantasy. The camera then cuts to the live action trio Misato, Asuka, and Rei, who represent the images of them that exist in Shinji's dream (not reality). He realizes that this is just a dream, and that no one truly exists here, not even himself. He asks if he can dream of being alone, but Rei explains that would compensating for reality (running away). We then see the theater go from packed to empty.

The next line of questioning is particularly important.

SPOILER: Show
Shinji (voice):
Then... where is my dream?

Rei (voice):
It is the continuation of reality.

Shinji (voice):
Where is... my reality?

Rei (voice):
It is at the end of your dream.

The dream --> reality --> dream, is actually somewhat a cycle. As clarified earlier, Shinji searches for his happiness in his dreams, which consists of images he's pulled from his reality (the live action version of Misato, Asuka, Rei). However, in order to make the happiness of his dreams a reality, the dream must end and he must face reality (the real Misato, Asuka, Rei). Another way to put it: reality is what inspires Shinji to dream, however the happiness of the dream can only be fulfilled once the dream is made into reality.

At that moment, GNR begins to bleed. The next sequence is in the LCL Sea, a world without shape, where it's impossible to tell where one person ends and another begins, and where one exists everywhere and nowhere at the same time. This is distinct from the dream, and it is not reality either. It is more akin to death; when Shinji asks if he's died, Rei explains that this is the world he wished for. This is Instrumentality, and this is what Shinji ultimately rejects when he separates from Rei and holds her hand. It is suicide.

Since GNR begins falling apart between the live action sequence and the Sea of LCL sequence, my best guess is that it's used to help along the stream of consciousness/waking dream feeling of the experience. GNR is committing an act of suicide, which is then followed by a metaphor for suicide. However, the sequence continues, Shinji rejects Instrumentality, and the dying GNR instead becomes a symbol for rebirth in the form of Unit-01, just as Shinji is reborn out of the sea of LCL. The themes goes distinctively from Thanatos to Eros in one sweeping motion.
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby Reichu » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:24 pm

View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote:But wait a minute, Isn't Lilith the one that permitted collect all the souls, (snip)


Here's something I wrote elsewhere elaborating on the issue:

View Original PostReichu wrote:Given that Third Impact is inevitable (the show doesn't explain why this is, so you just have to accept it and make up a reason you can live with), Yui and her posse have made it their mission to make 3I as not-shitty as possible. Fuyutsuki explains this in terms of using Eva-01 as an "ark" in which humanity's souls can ride out Third Impact. In essence, 3I acts as a version of the Flood, purifying the Earth ("red earth purification" is something mentioned by Seele), and once it's over then everyone can be restored to their bodies and go about their lives once more. Except for Gendo, of course, who plans on staying in Eva-01 forever.

RESPONSE: "i had no idea unit-1 was supposed to absorb all of humanity and return them to their bodies afterwards."

This is one of those things that's obscured partially through translation and partially through presentation. The "ark" stuff is actually mentioned on two occasions (during Gendo's final meeting with Seele and later by Fuyutsuki when Eva-01 becomes the Tree of Life), but superficially it feels like it doesn't really connect to anything, so they're both easy to gloss over -- I mean, when do we see any souls go into Eva-01?

First off, if Seele's initial set-up had come to pass, we probably would have seen this. When Eva-01 is given stigmata, Fuyutsuki guesses out loud that Seele are making her into a "yorishiro". This is a traditionally Shintoist term, referring to a person or object within which a kami ("god", approximately) may substantiate. In EoE, it seems to mean that Seele will use Eva-01 as the vessel to house humanity's complemented souls (meant to become a god unto itself).

It's explained earlier in the film that Seele had wanted to use Lilith for this instead, but are forced to use Eva-01 due to the loss of the Spear of Longinus. Exactly why the original Spear is required to use Lilith is never explained -- perhaps humanity's counterfeit versions don't match the originals in potency, and thus the replica Spears would not have sufficient effect on an original Seed. On a copy Seed, alternatively... Well, I'll get to that shortly.

Back to the stigmata -- what's the point of those? Just pointless symbolism? Perhaps not! Later in the film, you see Lilith channeling souls into vulva-shaped apertures on her palms. These open up when it's decided that HIP will happen, and close when HIP is terminated. The storyboards reveal that they are, in fact, the Doors (or Gates) of Guf -- meaning, they lead to the Chamber of Guf. Since they take the form of (delightfully gynecological) stigmata, could this be what Eva-01's stigmata were meant to be? Did Seele have their Evas forcefully open 01's Doors of Guf in preparation for harvesting humanity's souls? I suspect the answer is "yes". If Eva-01 is to become the yorishiro, then the souls need a way to get into her, and holes on the palms is later established as a way to achieve precisely that.
Eva-01's yorishiro role is obscured when Lilith shows up and takes over the proceedings, but some things to keep in mind:

1) Before he got shafted, Gendo instructed Rei to make everything one and take him to where Yui is. If you combine this with his earlier endorsement of the "ark" scenario, then this means he was planning to have Lilith gather the souls and then funnel them into Eva-01. (Before Lilith interferes, then, we can surmise that the MP Evas would have been the ones doing this, also explaining why Lilith "absorbs" them.)

2) Even with Lilith's involvement, Shinji remains the centerpiece of HIP. It's through his ego that all others will be complemented. (NGE seems to utilize the idea of "Impact triggers" even if it doesn't use that term. The donor for 2I; an Angel for their hypothetical 3I; Gendo and then Shinji for EoE's 3I.)

So in the film, it seems to go something like:

  • Lilith collects humanity's souls into her Chamber of Guf.
  • Lilith absorbs the Tree of Life (Eva-01/Spear fusion) and sends it to the Guf as well.
  • Tree of Life makes contact with Lilith's spiritual presence. Rei passes the baton onto Shinji (represented by Rei clones developing Shinji heads).
  • Humanity's souls filter into Tree of Life and glom onto Shinji. HIP begins.

Despite Eva-01 receiving all of humanity's souls, they're shown escaping from the Black Moon instead. As far as I can tell, this is due to some higher dimensional weirdness (think episode 16, except even weirder) that's never explained in the slightest. The Black Moon is linked to Lilith's Chamber of Guf intimately enough for it to be a required part of HIP, and yet it's clearly not the same thing, since souls don't have to enter the Black Moon itself in order to get the Chamber. It's really weird and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.


TheCarkolum wrote:When the EVA-01 breaks out the eye, it seems to me that the EVA-01 is the same dude that turned into the tree of life, that is, a God. You mean that Lilith helped the EVA to achieve... something?

Eva-01 has four wings before turning into the Tree of Life. After emerging from the dying Lilith, Eva-01 develops twelve wings -- the same number that Lilith has possessed just a moment before. A transfer of power is strongly implied.

Well that's tragic... and non-sensical to me. Her AATF is still active. Why can't she live forever with her children, the Lilim?

Eh? The AATF stops being active; that's how Instrumentality ends.
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby TheCarkolum » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:46 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:At that moment, GNR begins to bleed. The next sequence is in the LCL Sea, a world without shape, where it's impossible to tell where one person ends and another begins, and where one exists everywhere and nowhere at the same time. This is distinct from the dream, and it is not reality either.

What do you mean it's not reality? When clearly is. Rei says:" it's the world you wished for". It's the reality beyond the dream, the dream come true.

View Original PostSachi wrote:Since GNR begins falling apart between the live action sequence and the Sea of LCL sequence, my best guess is that it's used to help along the stream of consciousness/waking dream feeling of the experience. GNR is committing an act of suicide, which is then followed by a metaphor for suicide.


But you are assuming that the act of suicide is committed before asking anything, and there's no reason behind that. There's no metaphor for suicide, the act of holding hands means that the AT fields are back again. The act of suicide comes after that(or should).

Reichu wrote:
RESPONSE: "i had no idea unit-1 was supposed to absorb all of humanity and return them to their bodies afterwards."

First off, if Seele's initial set-up had come to pass, we probably would have seen this.

It's explained earlier in the film that Seele had wanted to use Lilith for this instead, but are forced to use Eva-01 due to the loss of the Spear of Longinus. Exactly why the original Spear is required to use Lilith is never explained -- perhaps humanity's counterfeit versions don't match the originals in potency, and thus the replica Spears would not have sufficient effect on an original Seed. On a copy Seed, alternatively... Well, I'll get to that shortly.

Back to the stigmata -- what's the point of those? Just pointless symbolism? Perhaps not! Later in the film, you see Lilith channeling souls into vulva-shaped apertures on her palms. These open up when it's decided that HIP will happen, and close when HIP is terminated. The storyboards reveal that they are, in fact, the Doors (or Gates) of Guf -- meaning, they lead to the Chamber of Guf. Since they take the form of (delightfully gynecological) stigmata, could this be what Eva-01's stigmata were meant to be? Did Seele have their Evas forcefully open 01's Doors of Guf in preparation for harvesting humanity's souls? I suspect the answer is "yes". If Eva-01 is to become the yorishiro, then the souls need a way to get into her, and holes on the palms is later established as a way to achieve precisely that.


You're talking about a hypothetical scenario when Lilith can't be used (the Seele's scenario). But in this case, in this scenario, the one who decides is Rei, the GNR. So, in this scenario, the EVA-01 doesn't need to be the vessel.

Reichu wrote:Eva-01's yorishiro role is obscured when Lilith shows up and takes over the proceedings, but some things to keep in mind:

1) Before he got shafted, Gendo instructed Rei to make everything one and take him to where Yui is. If you combine this with his earlier endorsement of the "ark" scenario, then this means he was planning to have Lilith gather the souls and then funnel them into Eva-01. (Before Lilith interferes, then, we can surmise that the MP Evas would have been the ones doing this, also explaining why Lilith "absorbs" them.)

2) Even with Lilith's involvement, Shinji remains the centerpiece of HIP. It's through his ego that all others will be complemented. (NGE seems to utilize the idea of "Impact triggers" even if it doesn't use that term. The donor for 2I; an Angel for their hypothetical 3I; Gendo and then Shinji for EoE's 3I.)


1)As far as I remember, Gendo's plan is merging all souls into one, and after that, GNR will take him to the Yui side, that is, inside the EVA. Since GNR would exist in that case, the EVA wouldn't need to be the vessel either.

2)But that's the reason GNR absorbs the Tree of Life in the first place. Because she needs Shinji.

Reichu wrote:
Eva-01 has four wings before turning into the Tree of Life. After emerging from the dying Lilith, Eva-01 develops twelve wings -- the same number that Lilith has possessed just a moment before. A transfer of power is strongly implied.


Ok, I guess the wings explain it. But think about it. We see 4 wings before becoming the Tree of Life, before being pierced by the Lance. So perhaps that might have "elevated" the EVA?

Reichu wrote:
Eh? The AATF stops being active; that's how Instrumentality ends.


I obviously meant if Shinji would not have rejected Instrumentality. Idk, the thing that Lilith helped Yui... Dunno, it seems pointless to me. Are Yui and Rei in touch with each other? Why the GNR would help Yui to achieve her masterplan, dying in the attempt? The GNR thing can only live as a "womb", like you said? If so, doesn't make much sense to me...
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:06 pm

View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote:You're talking about a hypothetical scenario when Lilith can't be used (the Seele's scenario). But in this case, in this scenario, the one who decides is Rei, the GNR. So, in this scenario, the EVA-01 doesn't need to be the vessel.

In the scenario that commences, Lilith takes over the role that the MP Evas were serving (controller/conductor) -- not that of Eva-01 (yorishiro/receptacle).

1)As far as I remember, Gendo's plan is merging all souls into one, and after that, GNR will take him to the Yui side, that is, inside the EVA. Since GNR would exist in that case, the EVA wouldn't need to be the vessel either.

Gendo clearly intended on using GNR as the means of controlling the Impact, NOT as the vessel for souls. Remember, he got rid of the original Spear of Longinus so that Lilith couldn't be used as a yorishiro.

On top of that, when Gendo talks to Seele for the last time, at the beginning of the film:

Gendo:
Humans should advance to a new world. That is the purpose of the Eva series.

SEELE 09:
We have no intention of giving up our human forms simply to enter an ark called Eva.

Since Seele repudiate Gendo's comment by saying that the idea of Eva acting as an "ark" is NOT something they want, this in turn suggests that the "ark" IS something that Gendo wants. Further substantiated by Fuyutsuki's comment later:

FUYUTSUKI (OFF):
Having obtained [both fruits], Eva Unit 01 has attained an existence equal to a god.
And now, it has been restored to the Tree of Life -- the embryo of life.
Will it become the ark that saves humankind from the nothingness of Third Impact?
Or the demon that destroys us all?
Our future lies in the hands of Ikari's son.

An "ark" refers to a temporary refuge from a catastrophe. So putting both of these things together, Gendo and Fuyutsuki (and probably Yui herself, since ostensibly both men are operating according to her ideals) want Eva-01 to act as a shelter for humanity's souls while Third Impact occurs. Afterward, the souls will disembark from the ark onto the "new world" resulting from 3I's purifying effects.

But that's the reason GNR absorbs the Tree of Life in the first place. Because she needs Shinji.

And why does Eva-01 become the Tree of Life to begin with? What's the point of merging Eva-01 and the Spear of Longinus together into a compound mystical symbol (crucifix-shaped inverted Cosmic Tree)? There's more to this than just "needing Shinji".

In any event, if you remain skeptical about all the blather regarding "ark" and "yorishiro" meaning anything in the actual film: the PS2/PSP game Neon Genesis Evangelion 2 elaborates upon Impact mechanics somewhat, and it makes it much more clear that the souls are destined for Eva-01. For instance, the two main variations of HIP completing successfully both result in Lilith dying the same way she does in EoE, and end on an image of Eva-01 standing vigil over the LCL ocean. My translations are in this sticky.
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby TheCarkolum » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:29 pm

Reichu wrote:In the scenario that commences, Lilith takes over the role that the MP Evas were serving (controller/conductor) -- not that of Eva-01 (yorishiro/receptacle).


Yes, agree. But only commences like that. Obviously that is not Yui/Rei's escenario, because after that she is the receptacle too.

Reichu wrote: Gendo clearly intended on using GNR as the means of controlling the Impact, NOT as the vessel for souls. Remember, he got rid of the original Spear of Longinus so that Lilith couldn't be used as a yorishiro.

It was thrown so that Seele could not use Lilith. Period. He says to Rei: "Merge all souls into one". How could she do it unless she was the vessel? And if that was the case, how Rei can merge all souls into one inside the Eva?

Reichu wrote: Since Seele repudiate Gendo's comment by saying that the idea of Eva acting as an "ark" is NOT something they want, this in turn suggests that the "ark" IS something that Gendo wants


Yes, that leads me to another question I had since I watched EoE. Why the Eva acting as an ark implies that all souls are in this ark? Noah Ark didn't have all the humans, actually 1(yes, actually I'm recurring to the Bible). Maybe the ark was Yui and Gendo, nobody else. In fact, that would make more sense. Gendo with Yui together. I don't think Gendo's plan was meet Yui and the others at the same time.

Reichu wrote:And why does Eva-01 become the Tree of Life to begin with? What's the point of merging Eva-01 and the Spear of Longinus together into a compound mystical symbol (crucifix-shaped inverted Cosmic Tree)? There's more to this than just "needing Shinji".


I don't know. Maybe there is no point. Maybe the Tree of Life is only necessary in Seele's scenario. There is more to this? I don't know. Maybe not. As far my understanding of Evangelion goes, Anno chose the most convoluted scenario possible!! :???: :???:
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:06 pm

This is just going to go in circles, so I won't make any further attempt to convince you. My approach helps me with the original question you posed, but if it doesn't work for you it doesn't. I hope you find something that does.
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby Sachi » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:19 am

View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote:What do you mean it's not reality? When clearly is. Rei says:" it's the world you wished for". It's the reality beyond the dream, the dream come true.

I'm not sure what you mean by it clearly being reality. The Sea of LCL is a world in which nothing exists, the empty void Shinji had been wishing for; it's death.

But you are assuming that the act of suicide is committed before asking anything, and there's no reason behind that. There's no metaphor for suicide, the act of holding hands means that the AT fields are back again. The act of suicide comes after that(or should).

All of Shinji's pain and despair had been leading him on the path of self-destruction, to the point where he wished to no longer exist. Rei shows him the world he wished for, which is an analogue for death/suicide. Everything had been leading up to demonstrate to Shinji that his search for a world without pain is the equivalent of death. The entire process of Instrumentality, from the start up until the rejection, is an emotional roller coaster showcasing a disturbed mind in the process of destroying itself. When Shinji finally gets to the Sea of LCL, he's already attempted suicide (GNR beginning to bleed), but once he realizes the mistake of it all, he rejects suicide and is reborn (Unit-01 rebirth via GNR). Once Shinji holds hands with Rei is when he's rejecting suicide and chooses to live again. Death comes before the rebirth, not after.
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby TheCarkolum » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:23 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by it clearly being reality. The Sea of LCL is a world in which nothing exists, the empty void Shinji had been wishing for; it's death.

Nobody exists? Better said everybody exists as one. Rei says: You exist everywhere, even though you are nowhere. Shinji asks: I'm dead? And Rei says:NO It's specifically clarified it's not death. And even if it were, why can't be death reality?

And you know where really nobody exists? In his dream. Because of that, in the live action sequence Shinji says:
But this is not reality, this is the world where nobody exists.

And Rei says: No, it's just a dream.

View Original PostSachi wrote:When Shinji finally gets to the Sea of LCL, he's already attempted suicide (GNR beginning to bleed), but once he realizes the mistake of it all, he rejects suicide and is reborn (Unit-01 rebirth via GNR). Once Shinji holds hands with Rei is when he's rejecting suicide and chooses to live again. Death comes before the rebirth, not after.


Shinji is in the LCL sea since GNR absorbs the Tree of Life, but he is immersed in the live action sequence, that is, his dream. Moreover, you're getting wrong the holding hands thing! If so, why Kaworu asks him: "Do You wanna the AT fields to exist?" if they already exist?
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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby Sachi » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:36 pm

SPOILER: Show
Shinji:
Ayanami... where are we?

Rei:
This is the sea of LCL... The primordial soup of life.
A world without AT Fields... without your own shape.
An ambiguous world where it is impossible to tell where you end and other people start.
A fragile world where you exist everywhere, and thus exist nowhere.

Shinji:
Have I died?

Rei:
No, everything has just been joined into one.
This is the world you have been hoping for... your world.

Shinji (releasing Misato's cross from his left hand):
But... this isn't right. I don't think this is right.

Rei says he exists everywhere, and thus nowhere at the same time. The lines between oneself and others are impossible to determine, symbolized by Rei and Shinji's merged bodies, therefore individuality has been destroyed.

When told this information, Shinji asks if he's died. Although Rei specifies that he's not exactly "dead", the premise is that there is no difference between this world and being dead; this is what Shinji was wishing for. Yet, when he realizes what it truly is, he finds that he's not comfortable with it, and his attitude begins to turn around. He separates himself from Rei, a symbol of the AT Fields forming once again. We then switch from the red sea to the blue sea, where Shinji is lying upon Rei's lap, and is slowly recovering from the ego death he experienced by having a therapeutic conversation with Rei and Kaworu. Although he hasn't outright declared his rejected of Instrumentality, the process of rebuilding his ego was already the first step toward it.
- Sachi

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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby CommanderFish » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:42 pm

Sachi wrote:The dream --> reality --> dream, is actually somewhat a cycle. As clarified earlier, Shinji searches for his happiness in his dreams, which consists of images he's pulled from his reality (the live action version of Misato, Asuka, Rei). However, in order to make the happiness of his dreams a reality, the dream must end and he must face reality (the real Misato, Asuka, Rei). Another way to put it: reality is what inspires Shinji to dream, however the happiness of the dream can only be fulfilled once the dream is made into reality.

Great explanation of this cryptic yet potent line. I never even thought about the significance of the live-action Misato, Asuka, and Rei until now. Good stuff.

As for the OP 's question: my interpretation is that GNR simply knows before-hand what Shinji is going to decide. In the same way that apparitions of Rei appeared during Misato's and Ritsuko's deaths--before GNR was formed--GNR can start dying before Shinji tells her to. She is fifth-dimensional, a being-out-of-time, a God. That's really all the explanation I need.
"The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth"

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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:03 am

I always took it to mean that this was the precise moment he made his decision (right after Rei finished her explanation; After all he'd already expressed that he didn't like being soup as much as he thought he would) before he fully vocalizes it.
I wanted to try harvesting the rice

I wanted to hold Tsubame more

I wanted to stay together forever with the boy I like

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Re: GNR got her head cut off BEFORE asking Shinji!

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Postby Reichu » Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:56 pm

Kendrix: GNR's neck rips open IMMEDIATELY after the live action sequence ends.
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