Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Re: Strange Gun from EP02

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Postby Orgeston » Thu Jan 28, 2016 6:48 pm

View Original Postcyharding wrote:It's been a long time since I've seen ep 6, but if I remember right, Ritsuko said to the effect that their own positron weapon was still in development and wouldn't be ready while the JSSDF's one, while more experimental, was workable, so it could be used.

Okay, just watched it again. You're correct, and I got the rifles mixed up. Last time I watched I was harvesting screenshots without subtitles and in Japanese because I can't stand the dub, so I got mixed up. The blue and white one is NERV's for use with the EVAs, (Of course, because it fits their shoulders). NERV's isn't powerful enough so they grab JSSDF's. Heh, apparently they never return it because it's still in use in EP22.

TMBounty_Hunter wrote:It's the Yamashita sketch version of pallet rifle. The final pallet rifle design is much more animator-friendly.

Okay, that makes sense. Where did you learn that? It isn't in Newtype 100% next to the other prototype gun designs.
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Re: Strange Gun from EP02

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:32 pm

It's in Sore o Nasumono. And now that I look it up it's actually one of Seiji Kio's things and not Yamashita's.
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Re: Strange Gun from EP02

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Postby Orgeston » Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:25 pm

I need to get Sore o Nasumono next. I might try buying a Unit-01 in the future and converting it to look like the illustration on the wiki page. You'd just need to re-sculpt the thorax and put a doll head on there.
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Re: Strange Gun from EP02

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:44 am

You know, it only just now occurred to me that a giant Eva-sized gun was never used in the fight scene that spanned the first two episodes. One was never sent up with the Eva either. So where did this gun come from and why are they hauling it away?

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Re: Strange Gun from EP02

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:25 am

To me the wrapping says "factory fresh", not "rubble cleanup".

In the same scene we see the buildings loaded up with ammo and spare batteries, that's where the rifle is headed too probably.
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Re: Strange Gun from EP02

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:04 am

Ah, that makes sense.

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Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Magneto » Wed May 03, 2017 6:48 pm

I think in this aspect there was a certain relaxation, most have no creativity, the only excess is the Positron Rifle, the idea of ​​the progressive knife to defeat the angels I found simply ridiculous, in addition has a multitude of useless weapons and they have a similarity incredible , in episode 19 Asuka uses an arsenal against Zeruel and has no effect, but to point out that Matarel was defeated by a "giant machine gun" in episode 11.
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Snow » Thu May 04, 2017 1:47 am

Take into note that Zeruel was possibly the strongest of all angels, being the symbol of strength. It's not anyone who is able to get to Tokyo 3 by direct assault.
And i must agree, i found it a bit strange Eva's using upsize assault rifles and pistols..
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Sachi » Thu May 04, 2017 5:17 am

What's wrong with the progressive knife? It might just be the single most effective weapon the Evas employ, though I can only think of two Angels it was effectively used against (Shamshel and Sahaquiel).
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby MuscleRobo » Thu May 04, 2017 8:47 am

Well, if you think about it Ultraman and Seven didn't use guns. Don't tell me that Dan or Hayato in the science patrol did though, that doesn't count! The Eva's aren't supposed to be like power armor or giant mecha but people in suits. I think a lot of the weapons just came from designing with a few military otaku. That's why they're modeled after some real life weapons and the toys have even more but a lot of angels are taking out by practicality wrestling like the Ultra series. This is more of a design reason though not an in universe one.

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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Glor » Thu May 04, 2017 10:23 am

I can see where you're coming from OP. I guess upscaled weapons just kind of go with the giant robot genre, since in reality giant robots would just be mobile artillery pieces anyway. But I do find it odd that so many people who watch the show don't get that Angel A.T. Field strengths aren't static. The show seemed to make that pretty clear, or at least pointed out that there were Angels with much more powerful A.T. Fields than others.
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Magneto » Sat May 06, 2017 9:30 am

I understand that the Evas are not exactly Mechas, I also understand that as human-controlled cyborgues it is convenient to have weapons similar to those of the real world, but I think they were simply too lazy to do them, If it's a super-cannon, but something a bit more detailed and useful in fighting against the angels, because the impression left is that it looks like the same weapons used by the UN to try to defeat the angels.

On the progressive knife, I may have exaggerated, but always when I see that to defeat a huge alien monster you need a knife, in the world of animes this is at the very least strange. (But I think it's just prejudice on my part, so ignore).
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Zoop » Thu May 11, 2017 6:26 am

Although I agree most weapon designs are quite lazy, it wasnt what bugged me so much. What did was their effectiviness. Matarael seemed incredibly weak to these weapons compared to pretty much all the other ones (maybe they managed to hit its weak spot at its "eye" or something).
I understand the angels have varying AT fields and uses for them, but in almost all encounters where these weapons were deployed, they were useless as shit.

Take Shamshel, where Sinji trains to use a gun to take down angels. Most of that is automated anyway, give him Kung-Fu lessons or something, so he'll be able to fight decently in hand-to-hand combat where the Eva performs the best anyway.
At best, these weapons were a hindrance (like obscuring Shamshel with smoke). Also the stationary guns that fire at the angel just to show how powerful it is and how little effect normal weapons have. Then why the hell are they still firing at them? Misato even remarks "this is just a waste of tax-payers money".

This always botherer me with NGE and NTE, I had always hoped they would either show that these weapons have some (limited) effectiveness, or just forget about them altogether.

Also in NTE, Mari is shown to use an effective sniper rifle, taking out a few MK4's, but in every other instance there was something that made these guns useless again. ATT round against something that doesn't have an AT, shooting rounds at something thats all-core, shooting units 09's head to find out it has little to no effect, etc. Every single time they need to make a point about how useless these weapons are ... It annoys me. If they are effective, they always are only once (mari's sniper against mk4's, useless after, or the Wunder guns against the nemesis, later against 13 pretty useless).

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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby introjection1 » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:24 pm

I think its neat how the EVAs just use up scaled versions of normal military armaments, and the use of real arms in general. If anime had instead opted to use laser guns, light-sabers, and the like, it would have made the violence in the series much less visceral and impactful than using realistic weaponry. Its easy to imagine how EoE would have been much less intense and brutal if the guns were star wars-y imo.

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Conventional military equipment in the series

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Postby Snow » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:45 am

Something that has caught my eyes in the series for many times has been the large diversity of different conventional weaponry and equipment (This excludes evas and the N2, as its destructive power equals roughly to a tactical nuclear weapon), in terms of design, nationality and era. When looking at the massive JSSDF assault on Nerv in EoE, some anomalies apparent. The biggest for me is the infantry loadout. Their standard weapon is the HK G11, a 80's terrifyingly complex assault rifle firing caseless ammunition. Yet they do not wear any ballistic protection, apart from (possibly) a helmet. Surely, it can not be a economic issue, as they can afford a very expensive rifle and the logistical nightmare to field those rifles, not even mention the rest of the army structure.
I do not believe it would be a weight-problem, either. A basic plate-carrier with two ballistic plates of level 4 protection for the chest and the back will easily be under 10kg, without restricting mobility in a significant way. So i must assume that it is just a way to enable Misato to save Shinji with a handgun.

The next thing that brings my attention is the diversity of equipment. In addition to the native Japanese equipment, the JSSDF seems to operate German assault rifles, Belgian pistols, French cavalry tanks, American artillery etc. To me this seems to be simply an artistic freedom, nothing wrong with that, but the equipment is marked with the letters ''UN''. From my understanding, the JSSDF is it's own independent force, and isn't a subordinate of the UN, or am i misunderstanding something here?
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Re: Conventional military equipment in the series

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Postby Cybermat47 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:21 am

Apparently the JSSDF is incorporated into the UN, which is also the case for all the other militaries of UN member states.

https://wiki.evageeks.org/Japanese_Strategic_Self_Defense_Force

As for the variety of equipment, it's probable that most nation's defence infrastructure was severely damaged by Second Impact, so to me it makes sense that each nation of the UN would produce different equipment types for use by all nations.
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Re: Conventional military equipment in the series

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Postby Snow » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:08 am

View Original PostCybermat47 wrote:Apparently the JSSDF is incorporated into the UN, which is also the case for all the other militaries of UN member states.

https://wiki.evageeks.org/Japanese_Strategic_Self_Defense_Force

As for the variety of equipment, it's probable that most nation's defence infrastructure was severely damaged by Second Impact, so to me it makes sense that each nation of the UN would produce different equipment types for use by all nations.


Oh, i see. Thank you for clearing that up. That does explain quite a lot...
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby OtherNigel » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:00 pm

I find it funny how in EoE a NERV guard uses an Uzi in an alternate future 2015 with giant mechs.

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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby Chuckman » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:09 pm

Why? They were still in use in real life 2015. The primary weapon issued to US troops is an over fifty year old design and most rifles and pistols still in use are only minor improvements on the same handful of operating mechanisms. Evangelion's tech outside the Evas themselves isn't futuristic enough to call for caseless ammunition or laser pistols and they'd just copy real world designs for those anyway.
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Re: Talking about guns in Evangelion

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Postby OtherNigel » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:34 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Why? They were still in use in real life 2015. The primary weapon issued to US troops is an over fifty year old design and most rifles and pistols still in use are only minor improvements on the same handful of operating mechanisms. Evangelion's tech outside the Evas themselves isn't futuristic enough to call for caseless ammunition or laser pistols and they'd just copy real world designs for those anyway.


Well, to be fair, the AR-15's design has evolved over time, but I think a better choice for NERV would be a P90 or an UMP45.


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