Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Tue May 02, 2017 3:03 pm

I know we forbid links for illegal downloads - but this is just information about the recent progress of copyright enforcement in the area of anime, manga and Japanese games.

A couple of weeks ago BakaBT was forced by copyright trolls (who were demanding the taking down of material that wasn't even theirs in some cases!) to go private; you can now only use it if you have a currently active account (and remember, if your account's been unused for over 11 months it will have been purged). There is at present no mechanism to make new accounts. It is expected that in due course, people whose accounts have been purged will be able, if they have a forum account, to ask for it to be revived.

Today Nyaa is down, and it appears that one of its domains has been deleted, and the other is deactivated. Though it's early days, the indications are that this is permanent. It may be the result of court cases in Holland and Sweden which have ruled that the mere act of making subtitles is copyright infringement - the site owner may be getting cold feet, as he is Swedish. Note that many other torrent sites list torrents that use the Nyaa tracker, so their content will be decimated.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Reichu » Tue May 02, 2017 3:24 pm

Well... this is bad for obscure content that will never, ever be actually localized. Back to FTPs, I suppose?
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Bagheera » Tue May 02, 2017 3:54 pm

Or the modern equivalent, yes.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Tue May 02, 2017 3:55 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Today Nyaa is down

Which is a shame, I was looking to see if Dragon Dentist had been fansubbed. I mean to make a video detailing it to some introductory degree. If I'm not mistaken, Outside of Eva, it's the only major work that they've spearheaded, everything else has been contract work for other studios, so I feel it deserves some sort of mention or review.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue May 02, 2017 4:11 pm

/a/ is in meltdown mode over this turn of events, as one might expect. As, it appears, are the lower profile sources that are suddenly being swamped by extra demand. Also, as one might expect, sites hosting recent Nyaa back-ups are starting to pop up.

View Original PostThe Eva Monkey wrote:Which is a shame, I was looking to see if Dragon Dentist had been fansubbed.
It's on Crunchyroll, which would mean that any "fansubs" would be from the usual rip-and-tweak outfits.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Wed May 03, 2017 5:02 am

Confirmation that Nyaa is permanently gone:

HorribleSubs wrote:Latest Nyaa Update + RSS Availability

We haven't heard anything from NyaaTorrents, so I think we can say with 90% 100% certainty that it's gone for good given that the domains are slated for deletion. Honestly speaking, I'm really sad. We started around the same time as NyaaTorrents and watched it grow up. The last time I talked to the owner a few months ago, he told us we would hit 1 billion+ downloads really soon. I guess we'll never find out :(

However, some seemingly capable people have reached out to me and said they're looking to build a full NT replacement. We will wait for that, which is hopefully soon. We don't think there are any competent public anime-oriented trackers out there right now, so we will be holding off from using one. Meanwhile, you can grab our releases from this site and/or XDCC through using magnet links. We have also whipped up an RSS feed for you guys so you can subscribe to our releases. You can find it in the top navigation bar.

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby MuscleRobo » Wed May 03, 2017 8:44 am

Shows with license issues like Macross or our beloved Evangelion are probably the biggest losers. Or maybe the tokusatsu kids. At least Tsuburaya is putting some Ultraman shows on crunchyroll

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby cyharding » Wed May 03, 2017 9:31 am

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, which I don't mean to, what exactly about this is a bad thing?

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby jcmoorehead » Wed May 03, 2017 9:41 am

View Original Postcyharding wrote:At the risk of sounding like a jerk, which I don't mean to, what exactly about this is a bad thing?


Well the main negative from it is pretty much what MuscleRobo said. Certain shows that haven't been licensed/unlikely to be licensed or are in a grey area license wise (Like Evangelion now) will now be a lot harder to get hold of for people. Legality aside sites like these provided pretty much the only means of people outside of Japan being able to watch these properties.

You could argue that it technically is illegal and that it's just tough luck that people can't/are unable to view them and that is true I guess. They certainly don't have to make this stuff available for us but it is still a bit of a shame that people can't experience it now.

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Bagheera » Wed May 03, 2017 9:51 am

Also, it's a problem for creators since the fansub community introduces a lot of people to anime, and thus increases demand for product outside of Japan. The current streaming services such as Funi/Crunchyroll, Amazon Prime, and the like owe their existence to the interest in anime created by fansubs, and anime fans with disposable income often do their best to track down hardcopy versions of their favorite shows -- something they're unlikely to do if they've never been able to see the show in question. I saw shows like Stand Alone Complex and Black Lagoon and Haruhi without paying a dime for them, for instance, but then I went and bought the Super Dragon Tiger Deluxe Mega Edition for every one of them because I wanted a permanent copy and I wanted to support the people who made them. I'm not unique in this respect.

The long and the short of it is that fansubbing is good for business, and that forcing sites like Nyaa to shut down hurts the community as a whole. When fans are less able to experience material they are less likely to buy product, and that's bad for everyone.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Wed May 03, 2017 10:35 am

Interested in history and influences? Try getting a copy of Yuusha Raideen now. The first four sets of out-of-print or Australian DVDs I pulled from my shelves to check are not yet available on any streaming service or currently for legal purchase in the US or UK. They got my money for Monster only because I am illegally able to play R4 DVDs, for instance.

Certainly since I started to develop my interest in anime and manga, streaming has come on by leaps and bounds - so for current material at least, the loss of these sites is not such a big deal. But looking back, it seems unlikely to me that my interest would have developed to the extent of my spending many thousands of pounds on legal material if sites like Nyaa had not been around to encourage it in the first place.

None the less, the increasing availability of older material through streaming does mean that this loss may not be felt as badly now as in the recent past (well, recent to me, if not to young people!).
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed May 03, 2017 12:03 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote: Also, as one might expect, sites hosting recent Nyaa back-ups are starting to pop up.
From the chatter on /a/ and /g/, "recent" means "beginning of April", so only the latest stuff might be dropping through the cracks; and there are other fragmentary back-ups appearing as magnet dumps on file sharing sites. Things seem to have now reached the point where a new nyaa.??????.??? could be up and running in a few days from the flash-mob that seems to have assembled in response to the problem.

My guess is that by the end of the month, this will all have been a storm in a tea-cup, just like all the other "Panic, everybody! TT Nyaa is down!" events that have been happening on a roughly quarterly basis for as long as I've been on /a/.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed May 03, 2017 12:26 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:My guess is that by the end of the month, this will all have been a storm in a tea-cup, just like all the other "Panic, everybody! TT Nyaa is down!" events that have been happening on a roughly quarterly basis for as long as I've been on /a/.

If I'm not mistaken, thepiratebay was hit last month, and was back up within days.

And also, something similar happened last month with kissanime, all there videos were pulled down, so they switched to their backups (think it was a Trojan or a DDoS), and a few months before that, they changed their domain from .to to .ru due to repeated site attacks, so it's not like any of these kind of sites (torrent or direct download/stream sites) being pulled down is anything new. If anything, it's a mild inconvenience for a week, then things are back to normal once folks find away around things.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Wed May 03, 2017 12:47 pm

It's slightly more than being pulled down by a DoS hit or something, which would simply have been a matter of doing what was necessary to bring it up again. The owner of the site has killed it, so any replacement will need to be built anew from fragments and backups. Certainly people are getting down to that; the results we will have to wait to see.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby hui43210 » Wed May 03, 2017 2:27 pm

I use Crunchyroll, but this is a real pain in the ass for weirdos like me who like to watch random 80/90/00's OVA's.... I also don't want to get Amazon Strike, I already got Funi Netflix etc.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby cyharding » Wed May 03, 2017 11:16 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Also, it's a problem for creators since the fansub community introduces a lot of people to anime, and thus increases demand for product outside of Japan...

If I am allowed to play devil's advocate on this point, one of the factors that led to the North American anime market crashing in the middle of the previous decade was that people were deciding to keep their fansubs and not buying the domestic releases, and it was the advent of legal streaming services that led to the diminishing of them, which changes the game. Some Japanese distributors are even releasing blu-rays of various anime titles with English subtitles, with one current example being the Little Witch Academia TV series (For the record, I have bought the deluxe edition of the original shorts from Japan, so I am not unfamiliar with importing anime). And Paul has a point that older series are starting to appear on streaming sites (I was surprised to read that Gaint Gorg is now on Crunchyroll), thus allowing greater accessibility. I also have to admit that I have never used these sites before, I don't know how they work or what software is required for them. There is also a concern of downloading a computer virus from these sites.

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby hui43210 » Thu May 04, 2017 8:44 am

View Original Postcyharding wrote:If I am allowed to play devil's advocate on this point, one of the factors that led to the North American anime market crashing in the middle of the previous decade was that people were deciding to keep their fansubs and not buying the domestic releases, and it was the advent of legal streaming services that led to the diminishing of them, which changes the game. Some Japanese distributors are even releasing blu-rays of various anime titles with English subtitles, with one current example being the Little Witch Academia TV series (For the record, I have bought the deluxe edition of the original shorts from Japan, so I am not unfamiliar with importing anime). And Paul has a point that older series are starting to appear on streaming sites (I was surprised to read that Gaint Gorg is now on Crunchyroll), thus allowing greater accessibility. I also have to admit that I have never used these sites before, I don't know how they work or what software is required for them. There is also a concern of downloading a computer virus from these sites.


Yes, but the point that the market NEVER would have been there in the first place if it wasn't for fansubs still stand. Many of the people doing legal subs for sites like Crunchyroll got their start with fansubs. Hell, even Crunchyroll itself started as a pirate site. So, while I do agree it's time to move on to legal streams that contribute to the creators of shows, you can't ignore the history/importance of fansubs. As well, I still think sites like BakaBt should still exist as a way to archive Anime that never will be licensed
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Dr. Nick » Thu May 04, 2017 1:34 pm

View Original Postjcmoorehead wrote:Legality aside sites like these provided pretty much the only means of people outside of Japan being able to watch these properties.


This. There are impossibly huge swathes of anime history that one simply cannot access legally, especially if you're a western consumer. Consider, for example, this list of discontinued / out of print anime from 2012. Some of the titles have been license rescued since then, but most of this content is in a likely permanent limbo.

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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby pwhodges » Thu May 04, 2017 2:34 pm

Heh - I've got DVDs of 21 titles from that list (three of which I know have been relicensed but I bought before that). There are others I've hunted high and low for hard copies of, without success - I'd buy them if they became available, but I only know that because I've been able to see them from a torrent site.
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Re: Illegal torrent trackers tumbling down (tumbling down)

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Postby Dr. Nick » Thu May 04, 2017 3:49 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Heh - I've got DVDs of 21 titles from that list (three of which I know have been relicensed but I bought before that).


I've got 55 originals and 9 license rescued titles from that list. And the number of rescues is only that low because I haven't yet sunk my teeth into Discotek's crazy hipster catalog. And no points in guessing that it were indeed the fansubs that led me to this sorry state.

I'm not sure what to make of this, though.


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