Should Asuka die in the final film?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Bagheera » Tue May 16, 2017 9:03 am

And even when 4I was in process Misato still didn't try to trigger the choker. The folks in Wille just don't want to kill the kid, no matter how expedient it might be.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Tue May 16, 2017 3:56 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Clearly not, as Asuka has just taken the trouble to rescue him.

Huh. Now why would Asuka go through so much trouble just to save him when she would get nothing out of it? I'm pretty sure she thought it would be easier to leave him behind, and maybe a bit more preferable for her liking.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Sachi » Tue May 16, 2017 4:52 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Huh. Now why would Asuka go through so much trouble just to save him when she would get nothing out of it? I'm pretty sure she thought it would be easier to leave him behind, and maybe a bit more preferable for her liking.

Because she cares about him still.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Bagheera » Tue May 16, 2017 5:04 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Huh. Now why would Asuka go through so much trouble just to save him when she would get nothing out of it? I'm pretty sure she thought it would be easier to leave him behind, and maybe a bit more preferable for her liking.


Perhaps the fact that she did go to all that trouble suggests your conclusions on the matter are flawed. Perhaps you're asking the wrong questions?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby pwhodges » Tue May 16, 2017 7:15 pm

Another possible reason for Asuka to take him is the more calculating one that she wishes to prevent him falling back into the hands of Nerv. But even so, she takes him alive rather than trying to find a way to off him (does she carry a side-arm, I wonder?).
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue May 16, 2017 7:38 pm

So, what you guys are saying is... that if Asuka dies in Shin Eva, it'll be tragic. :nyao:
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Wed May 17, 2017 12:16 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Perhaps the fact that she did go to all that trouble suggests your conclusions on the matter are flawed. Perhaps you're asking the wrong questions?

How so?
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Wed May 17, 2017 12:17 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:Because she cares about him still.

Hmm... That I like to see more. If it's even a possibility for her.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby RadicalRandy » Wed May 17, 2017 3:27 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Hmm... That I like to see more. If it's even a possibility for her.


As it's mentioned before, she did go back for him at the end of 3.0 when the option to leave him was still available. She even took the journey to go find him from wherever her entry plug was, which could have landed miles away for all we know.

I don't believe that she wants to admit any positive feelings for him, especially so much so in the Rebuilds. However, I believe that her actions at the end of the latest film offer significance into her character, particularly when she goes out of her way to find his plug, talk to him (even if it's to berate him- I think it's better that she's still talking to him at all considering the events that just previously transcended), then leave briefly only to return and force him to accompany her back to WILLE or wherever. It's subtle, but it says a lot. I really hope that this is capitalized in the next film.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Kendrix » Wed May 17, 2017 5:38 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Huh. Now why would Asuka go through so much trouble just to save him when she would get nothing out of it? I'm pretty sure she thought it would be easier to leave him behind, and maybe a bit more preferable for her liking.


It's pretty obvious from her behavior that she WANTS to (she almost does walk off, let out a big sigh, physically beats him up & then drags him along with obvious contempt and vitriol.) but she's no longer a teenager who'll be completely ruled by what's "preferable to her liking" - Perhaps she has reason not to kill him (Not provoking EVA 01?), or Misato wanted him retrieved, or, y'know, he's unarmed, sleep-deprived, malnourished and far away from any EVAs, generally a pitiful sight & not much of a threat atm.
He's a potential impact trigger, they can't just leave him laying around, what if NeoNerv collects him somehow, or if he gets any ideas?
If they wanted to kill him they'd have to make sure he's properly dead rather than just leave him - Besides, not gratituously murdering an unarmed teenager who wasn't even willingly working for NeoNerv is simply a sign of not being a psychopath, it doesn't require "secret twu wuw" or much sympathy for Shinji in particular. She may be hard-boiled but not enough to murder some kid who's not resisting, there's such a thing as nuance. Heck, how satisfying would it even be to kill him when he's practically begging for it? There might be a sense of "No, you don't get the easy way out you'll live in this hell you created just as we did" or that he's not worth killing as he is now.

But of course this is a subject that can, has & will be debated at lenght without reaching an unambiguous conclusion until/unless the 4th movie gives her an explicit motivation rant.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Joseki » Wed May 17, 2017 8:54 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Possibly no Fourth Impact, but we don't now enough about anyone's plans ATM to say that for sure. Of course that doesn't mean that poor Shinji remotely deserved it but that's precisely the point: It's a crapsack world where putting a bomb colar on a kid & throwing him in a jail cell is not just a reasonable safety precaution, but not even safe enough.


I'm not sure they put the choker on Shinji and get him into some sort of prison to protect themselves from Shinji itself, I suspect they put him in jail as mean to protect him, and they put the choker on as a last resort in the worst case scenario (and as we saw in the movie Misato couldn't force herself to use it no matter how crucial it was).
Jail was probably the most secure place for him at that moment as it was as far away as possible from Neo-NERV and their Eva's, and if they really didn't want him to pilot an Eva ever again there was no need for them to put the choker on, so they knew that Neo-NERV would have tried to take Shinji with them. WILLE's mistake was to think that Gendo would have wanted to retrieve Eva 01 before him.

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Another possible reason for Asuka to take him is the more calculating one that she wishes to prevent him falling back into the hands of Nerv. But even so, she takes him alive rather than trying to find a way to off him (does she carry a side-arm, I wonder?).


The non-verbal communication at the end of the movie is not coherent with such a calculating reasoning. I'm sure that it would probably be the official reason she would give but it would not be the real one. She doesn't seem to be very ration when in close vicinity of her dear baka-Shinji.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Wed May 17, 2017 2:25 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:...Perhaps she has reason not to kill him (Not provoking EVA 01?), or Misato wanted him retrieved, or, y'know, he's unarmed, sleep-deprived, malnourished and far away from any EVAs, generally a pitiful sight & not much of a threat atm.
He's a potential impact trigger, they can't just leave him laying around, what if NeoNerv collects him somehow, or if he gets any ideas?
If they wanted to kill him they'd have to make sure he's properly dead rather than just leave him - .

This is making me wonder what will happen to Shinji once Asuka gets him back to WILLE.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Settie » Wed May 17, 2017 4:26 pm

^ Probably confine him again and Asuka might chew him out for doing dumb stuff, but they'll likely explain everything to him as they were starting to before NERV came a knocking.

Asuka i think is acting similarly to Misato, outwards she acts harsh but still having a soft spot for Shinji. That entry plug scene that has been brought up before in the thread is an example. She arrived out of breath with a look of concern on her face but as soon as she saw the he was, not only fine, but seemingly sulking like a brat that she got exasperated and had to compose herself before bringing him out. Obviously Asuka is ignorant of what transpired in NERV and what Kaworus' friendship and death meant to Shinji, so her anger and frustration is justified from her perspective. To the audience though, it would look harsh and uncaring.

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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Wed May 17, 2017 6:37 pm

View Original PostSettie wrote:^ Probably confine him again and Asuka might chew him out for doing dumb stuff, but they'll likely explain everything to him as they were starting to before NERV came a knocking.

Yeah, I can see that happening in the next and final installment. Hopefully, the characters will find some way to straighten things out, and maybe be a little less harsh on Shinji. Because, clearly, he didn't ask for anything that has happened.
Asuka i think is acting similarly to Misato, outwards she acts harsh but still having a soft spot for Shinji. That entry plug scene that has been brought up before in the thread is an example.

Yes, I read about how Asuka has taken on that role, though she seems harsher than Misato was. Hopefully, she won't have to end up the same way Misato did in EOE, and maybe Asuka will learn to take a chill-pill, and be a little nicer to someone for once. Including Shinji. Especially Shinji.
She arrived out of breath with a look of concern on her face but as soon as she saw the he was, not only fine, but seemingly sulking like a brat that she got exasperated and had to compose herself before bringing him out.

I don't recall her looking concerned at that point. A little annoyed, maybe. And also, I wonder if she has some personal reason to bring him out other than taking him back to WILLE so they can figure out how to deal with him.
Obviously Asuka is ignorant of what transpired in NERV and what Kaworus' friendship and death meant to Shinji, so her anger and frustration is justified from her perspective. To the audience though, it would look harsh and uncaring.

Indeed. Had she known what happened during his experience down at Neo NERV, then maybe, just maybe, she might be little more sympathetic towards him. But quite frankly, she was not. And probably never will, because that's just Asuka.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Bagheera » Wed May 17, 2017 6:44 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:Indeed. Had she known what happened during his experience down at Neo NERV, then maybe, just maybe, she might be little more sympathetic towards him. But quite frankly, she was not. And probably never will, because that's just Asuka.


The Asuka in your mind, anyway. ;) Others see things differently.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby RadicalRandy » Wed May 17, 2017 9:05 pm

^ Agreed.

Although she has a difficult time expressing certain emotions, I believe that Asuka definitely has the propensity to demonstrate sympathy. She's by far not a one-dimensional character with linear character interaction.
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Kendrix » Sun May 21, 2017 3:18 am

View Original PostSettie wrote:^ Probably confine him again


^Probably. What else would they do? If their policy was to kill him when he's not putting up resistence they'd done it already.

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:
Indeed. Had she known what happened during his experience down at Neo NERV, then maybe, just maybe, she might be little more sympathetic towards him. But quite frankly, she was not. And probably never will, because that's just Asuka.


Yet another addition to the Q world's general crapsackyness. They don't know the full story from Shinji, and Shinji doesn't know such details as Misato being unable to off him. Pretty much everyone involved thinks everyone else is even worse than they actually are. If they'd properly listened to each other in Lillith's chamber the clusterfuck could have been avoided but all of them were dealing with the threat of the apocalypse - well, ReiQ might not have understood it and Mari has no sense of danger whatsoever, but, Asuka was all ballistic because, fate of the world on her shoulders (not that dislike of Shinji didn't feaure in but its not that simple), Shinji was unwilling to abort the mission because he thought its was the last chance for humanity (and himself), heck, even Kaworu was rendered rather unhelpful by the realization that he'd led Shinji straight into a trap...

But when has eva NOT been "Poor communication Kills: The TV Show"?
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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Settie » Sun May 21, 2017 8:36 pm

^ integrate him? I mean them attempting to get him up to speed must've had a reason.

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Re: Should Asuka die in the final film?

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Postby Amitch91 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:38 am

In my opinion Asuka doesnt NEED to die ( in my opinion no character NEEDS to die) i would like a more "happy" ending, if there is one than in EoE


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