Best boy

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Re: Best boy

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:57 pm

Snow wrote:Not only that, he has seemingly all the personality traits in perfection. A charming and talented person to every extent. Too perfect...?

Well, when someone tries to be too perfect, they tend to be hiding severe flaws of their own, which in Kaworu's case happens to be that he's an Angel sent to destroy humanity.

Also, Toji is a good choice, he admits when he's wrong, like after he decked Shinji, he apologized for being an ass. The caring person wearing the guise of a jock in a tracksuit was a stroke of genius not generally seen in media. Kensuke however is a solid no, he's a bit too creepy to be best boy. Neither is Nebukawa no Sensei, he's too boring to the best at anything.
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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:12 pm

Well, you can't be the best boy if you aren't human.

And those are very good point on Suzuhara, in my opinion. I think i have my ideal best boy defined now. Suzuhara who grows up to become Fuyutsuki.

We can all dream.
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Re: Best boy

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Postby Reichu » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:29 pm

View Original PostSnow wrote:Well, you can't be the best boy if you aren't human.

Says who?

Episode 25 wrote:TEXT:
Why did you kill him?

Shinji:
Because Kaworu was... He was an Angel!

TEXT:
Even though he was also human?

Shinji:
No! An Angel! He was our enemy!

TEXT:
Even though he was human, like you?

Shinji:
No! No! You're wrong!

Rei:
Even though he was a person, just like me?
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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:38 pm

Nagisa refers to others around him as Lilin, Humans. He does not, however, use this on himself. Moreover, he is a result of an contact experiment.

What comes to person equaling human, i disagree. A sentient being with it's own personality developed enough counts as a person, i suppose. Advanced AI would be an example of this.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:03 pm

This makes it sound like you think the show is wrong about one of its own premises, which is just silly. You're making the common mistake of forgetting that NGE has two definitions of "human" -- one that is the same thing as "Lilin", and one that is a bit more expansive (along with being a late reveal, though its existence is hinted at throughout the show). In episode 25, we're told that both Kaworu and Rei are human, therefore they are human, no ifs, ands, or buts. Episode 25' also makes it quite clear that all Angels are human, as well. This probably means that NGE wants the audience to think about what precisely it means to be human in a world where we're not actually alone, rather than just shrug and go, "Oh, well, it's not like so-and-so is human anyway".

(On this topic, NGE uses "human" and "person" interchangeably, so there's nothing to be really gained by arguing semantics. Keep in mind that this is Japanese we're talking about, wherein "person" is 人 and "human" is 人間.)

Snow wrote:Moreover, he is a result of an contact experiment.

Not sure what you're trying to demonstrate by citing the circumstances of Kaworu's creation, which point to Kaworu being at least half Lilin genetically.
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Re: Best boy

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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:05 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:This makes it sound like you think the show is wrong about one of its own premises, which is just silly. You're making the common mistake of forgetting that NGE has two definitions of "human" -- one that is the same thing as "Lilin", and one that is a bit more expansive (along with being a late reveal, though its existence is hinted at throughout the show). In episode 25, we're told that both Kaworu and Rei are human, therefore they are human, no ifs, ands, or buts. Episode 25' also makes it quite clear that all Angels are human, as well. This probably means that NGE wants the audience to think about what precisely it means to be human in a world where we're not actually alone, rather than just shrug and go, "Oh, well, it's not like so-and-so is human anyway".


Not sure what you're trying to demonstrate by citing the circumstances of Kaworu's creation, which point to Kaworu being at least half Lilin genetically.


I stand corrected.
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Re: Best boy

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:29 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:(The real reason I didn't vote for Kaworu is precisely because this is the "best boy" thread. Of course.)
... and you can't be "best boy" if you're a girl, right?

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Re: Best boy

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:55 am

I was always under the impression that "best girl" was in reference to their age, which is why the usual candidates were Rei, Asuka, Hikari, and now Mari, while the mature women like Misato, Ritsuko, and Maya were rarly considered.

If that is the case, then the Best Boy for me would have to be either Kaworu or Kensuke. You can't fault the initiative of either of those guys. If age isn't a factor, then Kaji is Best Boy, hands down.

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Postby Snow » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:38 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I was always under the impression that "best girl" was in reference to their age, which is why the usual candidates were Rei, Asuka, Hikari, and now Mari, while the mature women like Misato, Ritsuko, and Maya were rarly considered.

I'd say it refers more to the sex of the character, not the age. And i will disagree with mature women not being considered, Misato is quite a popular one.

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:If that is the case, then the Best Boy for me would have to be either Kaworu or Kensuke. You can't fault the initiative of either of those guys. If age isn't a factor, then Kaji is Best Boy, hands down.


You don't see Kensuke getting much attention on the forums. Interesting opinion nonetheless.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:48 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:As much as I despise the character, Kaworu is obviously best boy. I'm surprised no one else has brought him up yet. Given the Christ associations and such, he's the closest thing there is to "perfect". Wasn't the original intention of the character supposed to be everything that Shinji was striven to be, or something along those lines?


Kaworu is an Angel designed to obliterate Shinji's psyche, a task he performs with great efficacy. He is "best boy" if your criterion is weaponized affection; by any other standard he's kinda pants.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:55 pm

Shinji is best boy. Forever and for always.

Followed closely by that one NERV Tech with a big bushy mustache in the far far background of some control room shots.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:33 pm

View Original PostSnow wrote:I'd say it refers more to the sex of the character, not the age. And i will disagree with mature women not being considered, Misato is quite a popular one.

I've always heard her considered in more "Waifu" conversations, but that would suggest that I can actually make a clear distinction between the two.

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Followed closely by that one NERV Tech with a big bushy mustache in the far far background of some control room shots.

I know who you're talking about! I've always called him "Anime Burt Reynolds." He shows up in both NGE Episodes 1-2 and Eva 1.11. His presence amuses me every time I see him.

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Postby Snow » Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:51 pm

And i thought ''best girl'' was your waifu of preference. I have lived all these years in obscurity, it seems..
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:22 pm

To be fair, I might be overthinking the terminology behind "waifu" and "best girl," but overthinking things tends to be EvaGeeks's default setting. (Or, it's at least MY default setting.)

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Postby Snow » Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:26 pm

I would argue so. One of the main problems in the internet is the over-analyzation of simple things, that were created as stupid jokes.
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Postby Sachi » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:44 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Kaworu is an Angel designed to obliterate Shinji's psyche, a task he performs with great efficacy. He is "best boy" if your criterion is weaponized affection;

Yes. Everyone is using their own arbitrary standards for best boy, and I would argue that each of the male characters is "best boy" in some category or another. I stand by bishounen Jesus.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:06 am

The "Kaworu = Jesus" meme has gotten a lot of mileage, but I would argue that he is the Anti-Christ instead. You even have the origin reversed, for goodness sake!
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Postby Snow » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:43 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:Yes. Everyone is using their own arbitrary standards for best boy, and I would argue that each of the male characters is "best boy" in some category or another. I stand by bishounen Jesus.


In what category do the SEELE council members go apart from Lorenz?
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:02 am

The funny thing about the Kaworu = Jesus meme is that Shinji's the one who saved humanity in the end. He's also the one who died and came back to life. And heck, he even has the stigmata! The only way to make him a better fit for the role would be to make him a Jewish carpenter.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:02 pm

Bagheera wrote:The funny thing about the Kaworu = Jesus meme is that Shinji's the one who saved humanity in the end. He's also the one who died and came back to life. And heck, he even has the stigmata! The only way to make him a better fit for the role would be to make him a Jewish carpenter.

Nice call on the stigmata... but did Shinji die for our sins?

Also, we should give Shinji a Jesus beard and sandals and have him wander be in a desert for 40 days... oh my god, Shinji in rebuild is Jesus! Well, if you substitute red wasteland for desert you have it. And I would have to say Kaworu is more like Lucifer, the Fallen Archangel, becoming the harbinger of evil and all that.
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