Best boy

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Re: Best boy

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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:10 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Gendo is the Byronic hero the eva world truly deserves.


Gendo could be seen as the ultimate chessmaster, with almost every move going according to plan.


xanderkh wrote:You guys already know my answer by now, if there's any doubt: Shinji Ikari.

This is a kid since day one has been deliberately been manipulated to failure and screwed by nearly every facet of his life to the point of making it a living hell, where he pretty much had the one chance in his entire like to say "FUCK YOU" to everything that screwed him over.

But yet, despite everything that happened to him, it was HE that decided that life was worth living and denied Instrumentality, even if his life up to that point was utter shit. THAT takes a strength that very few people have.


He did come to terms with himself, unlike many other characters. And he made his own decision in the end, which one could say was the right decision.
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Postby xtr00kvltcorex » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:57 am

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:You guys already know my answer by now, if there's any doubt: Shinji Ikari.

This is a kid since day one has been deliberately been manipulated to failure and screwed by nearly every facet of his life to the point of making it a living hell, where he pretty much had the one chance in his entire like to say "FUCK YOU" to everything that screwed him over.

But yet, despite everything that happened to him, it was HE that decided that life was worth living and denied Instrumentality, even if his life up to that point was utter shit. THAT takes a strength that very few people have.


Pretty much this.

In fact, all of this.
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Re: Best boy

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:02 am

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:You guys already know my answer by now, if there's any doubt: Shinji Ikari.

This is a kid since day one has been deliberately been manipulated to failure and screwed by nearly every facet of his life to the point of making it a living hell, where he pretty much had the one chance in his entire like to say "FUCK YOU" to everything that screwed him over.

But yet, despite everything that happened to him, it was HE that decided that life was worth living and denied Instrumentality, even if his life up to that point was utter shit. THAT takes a strength that very few people have.


Yup, I feel the same. Shinji's the one who decided to live no matter what, rather than chase after secrets or some unattainable ideal. He's the only male figure in the show who's keeping it real, so to speak.

View Original PostSnow wrote:Gendo could be seen as the ultimate chessmaster, with almost every move going according to plan.


Though that's more of an internet meme than anything that's established in the show. In reality he's more of an emotionally crippled dumbfuck who spins anything that happens as part of a non-existent master plan while he scrambles to avoid being shot by his bosses for his rather blatant treachery.
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Re: Best boy

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Postby Reichu » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:08 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:emotionally crippled dumbfuck

:uhh:

I'll throw a vote in for Shinji, too. The original, obviously, not Impact-kun.

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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:10 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Though that's more of an internet meme than anything that's established in the show. In reality he's more of an emotionally crippled dumbfuck who spins anything that happens as part of a non-existent master plan while he scrambles to avoid being shot by his bosses for his rather blatant treachery.


That's another perspective on it too, although i am personally in between these opinions. It is true that he does convince himself that everything that happens is ''according to plan'', but he does play multiple fronts at the same time and almost achieves what he wants. It's not luck alone.
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Postby pwhodges » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:11 am

This thread is inherently uninteresting, as there is so clearly only one acceptable answer.

:tongue:
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Re: Best boy

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:32 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:This thread is inherently uninteresting, as there is so clearly only one acceptable answer.

:tongue:

So says you, good sir ^_^
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Postby Sachi » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:30 pm

As much as I despise the character, Kaworu is obviously best boy. I'm surprised no one else has brought him up yet. Given the Christ associations and such, he's the closest thing there is to "perfect". Wasn't the original intention of the character supposed to be everything that Shinji was striven to be, or something along those lines?

After that, I'm with NemZ and I'll throw my vote in for Gendo. And then Shinji
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Postby Reichu » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:39 pm

That's the biggest problem with Kaworu, isn't it? He's an ideal and not much more. Less a defined person and more a bundle of ethereal romantic concepts that don't work so well in the real world. Soon as you try to make them work, or look at them with too critical an eye, the whole thing falls apart.

(The real reason I didn't vote for Kaworu is precisely because this is the "best boy" thread. Of course.)

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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:47 pm

I'd say the fact that Kaworu is an angel takes quite a lot of points away from him in the rankings.

Aoba might be one of the forgotten bridge-trio, but i like him. Nothing like a good old nihilist.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:50 pm

Aoba deserved more character building, yeah.
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Re: Best boy

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:45 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Aoba deserved more character building, yeah.

The entire bridge crew in the series deserved a bit more character building.

Also, with Kaworu, he causes Shinji a lot more pain in one episode than Asuka, Gendo, and everyone can does in the entire series. So I would not count him anywhere near "best boy" More like worst boy.
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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:57 pm

Not only that, he has seemingly all the personality traits in perfection. A charming and talented person to every extent. Too perfect...? Yet he, like Ayanami, has a purpose to live. And he does complete his purpose by sacrificing himself, much to the dislike of Ikari.

Now that i think about it, Toji is pretty good too. He has his flaws, but is ultimately a kind and caring person. This, in a jocks disguise.
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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:57 pm

Snow wrote:Not only that, he has seemingly all the personality traits in perfection. A charming and talented person to every extent. Too perfect...?

Well, when someone tries to be too perfect, they tend to be hiding severe flaws of their own, which in Kaworu's case happens to be that he's an Angel sent to destroy humanity.

Also, Toji is a good choice, he admits when he's wrong, like after he decked Shinji, he apologized for being an ass. The caring person wearing the guise of a jock in a tracksuit was a stroke of genius not generally seen in media. Kensuke however is a solid no, he's a bit too creepy to be best boy. Neither is Nebukawa no Sensei, he's too boring to the best at anything.
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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:12 pm

Well, you can't be the best boy if you aren't human.

And those are very good point on Suzuhara, in my opinion. I think i have my ideal best boy defined now. Suzuhara who grows up to become Fuyutsuki.

We can all dream.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:29 pm

View Original PostSnow wrote:Well, you can't be the best boy if you aren't human.

Says who?

Episode 25 wrote:TEXT:
Why did you kill him?

Shinji:
Because Kaworu was... He was an Angel!

TEXT:
Even though he was also human?

Shinji:
No! An Angel! He was our enemy!

TEXT:
Even though he was human, like you?

Shinji:
No! No! You're wrong!

Rei:
Even though he was a person, just like me?

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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:38 pm

Nagisa refers to others around him as Lilin, Humans. He does not, however, use this on himself. Moreover, he is a result of an contact experiment.

What comes to person equaling human, i disagree. A sentient being with it's own personality developed enough counts as a person, i suppose. Advanced AI would be an example of this.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:03 pm

This makes it sound like you think the show is wrong about one of its own premises, which is just silly. You're making the common mistake of forgetting that NGE has two definitions of "human" -- one that is the same thing as "Lilin", and one that is a bit more expansive (along with being a late reveal, though its existence is hinted at throughout the show). In episode 25, we're told that both Kaworu and Rei are human, therefore they are human, no ifs, ands, or buts. Episode 25' also makes it quite clear that all Angels are human, as well. This probably means that NGE wants the audience to think about what precisely it means to be human in a world where we're not actually alone, rather than just shrug and go, "Oh, well, it's not like so-and-so is human anyway".

(On this topic, NGE uses "human" and "person" interchangeably, so there's nothing to be really gained by arguing semantics. Keep in mind that this is Japanese we're talking about, wherein "person" is 人 and "human" is 人間.)

Snow wrote:Moreover, he is a result of an contact experiment.

Not sure what you're trying to demonstrate by citing the circumstances of Kaworu's creation, which point to Kaworu being at least half Lilin genetically.

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Postby Snow » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:05 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:This makes it sound like you think the show is wrong about one of its own premises, which is just silly. You're making the common mistake of forgetting that NGE has two definitions of "human" -- one that is the same thing as "Lilin", and one that is a bit more expansive (along with being a late reveal, though its existence is hinted at throughout the show). In episode 25, we're told that both Kaworu and Rei are human, therefore they are human, no ifs, ands, or buts. Episode 25' also makes it quite clear that all Angels are human, as well. This probably means that NGE wants the audience to think about what precisely it means to be human in a world where we're not actually alone, rather than just shrug and go, "Oh, well, it's not like so-and-so is human anyway".


Not sure what you're trying to demonstrate by citing the circumstances of Kaworu's creation, which point to Kaworu being at least half Lilin genetically.


I stand corrected.
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Re: Best boy

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:29 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:(The real reason I didn't vote for Kaworu is precisely because this is the "best boy" thread. Of course.)
... and you can't be "best boy" if you're a girl, right?
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