Anyone else feel dislike towards EoE nowadays?

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Anyone else feel dislike towards EoE nowadays?

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Postby Gus Hanson » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:12 pm

When I first bought EoE around 2001 or 2002, I fell in love with it. I thought it was the perfect way to cap off the supposed confusion I was feeling about the TV series.

But in recent times, especially with the Rebuilds coming out, I feel distance between me and my liking the EoE as a whole. Like in some weird way, the TV's convoluted ending was a more satisfactory way to go out and I just bought into the bandwagon of Anno needing to make this movie in order to clear up the drama. As for my opinion on Anno himself, if you asked me years ago up until when I first started feeling this way about the film, I would've said the man is a saint and anyone who didn't agree (especially a certain English dub actress/director whose name I won't share because it would probably just stir things up again) was full of it. But I can't deny myself anymore the fact that him and Eva had an unhealthy way of making themselves into reality and still do with the Rebuilds taking their toll at times. In all honesty, I could probably sell my DVD copy of EoE AND Death & Rebirth and not feel bad since I would still have the good old TV series keeping me company. Sorry I rambled on but you get my drift. Anybody else feel similar?
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Postby NemZ » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:39 pm

I still prefer the original ending, so yeah, pretty much.
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:26 pm

View Original PostGus Hanson wrote:Anyone else feel dislike towards EoE nowadays?

Nope. Still a masterpiece in my eyes.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:11 am

After watching it twice on consecutive days, immediately after completing the series, I've never found the inclination to rewatch it since, even though I now have the BD release should the eventuality ever arise.

Part of that is that those first viewings were absolutely brutal, and I don't expect that coming back to it after all the analysis will be anything like as effective; and that with emotional distance, it would be more irritating or annoying than anything else. Another part that has grown with time is that it is tarred by association with the all the DC retcon material (once was enough with those), changes that led to the one "where the fuck did that come from?" bit that felt jarringly out of place with what had gone before during the original viewings.
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Postby Sachi » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:07 am

I love EoE. Sometimes I'll simply throw it on without having watched the series immediately prior. The emotional message of it all really speaks to me, even to this day (though I admit, it's been some time since I've viewed it; my copy is currently stored upstate at my father's place). The original ending is great for this reason as well, but I feel EoE is more visceral and more properly addresses these issues, particularly regarding suicide.

That said, the original series ending eventually grew on me over the years. At first I wasn't sure what to really think of it, but nowadays I really love it. I'm not sure if I prefer it over EoE, but I'm definitely glad I have the joy of both endings rather than simply EoTV. With the original ending alone, the series feels somewhat incomplete, and I'm glad EoE is there to tie up some of those loose ends.
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Postby Rei IV » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:57 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Part of that is that those first viewings were absolutely brutal, and I don't expect that coming back to it after all the analysis will be anything like as effective; and that with emotional distance, it would be more irritating or annoying than anything else. Another part that has grown with time is that it is tarred by association with the all the DC retcon material (once was enough with those), changes that led to the one "where the fuck did that come from?" bit that felt jarringly out of place with what had gone before during the original viewings.

Yes, I could just imagine that if one saw the entire series without seeing the NPC episodes, which came out in home video in 1998, End of Evangelion would've been absolutely confusing as fuck. I don't hate/dislike the movie but I can totally understand and relate to the visceral revolution some people have towards it. By itself, the series ended on a positive note, Shinji coming to terms with himself, that it was okay for him to be here in this world and the fact the ending itself was rather ambiguous, which can be considered good (EOE, one can argue, pretty much shits on Shin-chan's character and he's back to his pitful, self-loathing self back the way the first 3 episodes, episode 19). Some people saw it as unrealistic and even saccharine, sentimental nonsense but when one looks at where he's at in the end of EOE, who'd could blame anyone for preferring the TV ending.

The shipping angle must've been even more shocking and random (and unbelievable given with episode 15) as hell when Instrumentality took place.
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Postby Magneto » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:48 am

I watched EoE again a few days ago, my memories are clear now, I think this movie is like those old Western movies compared to the last two original episodes of EoTV, to start with I was a bit disappointed with the MPE series design, They are hump and have a fishy face :rolleyes: , but what really bothers me is that they are totally stupid, I wanted to make a comparison with the dummy-plug system, I was always curious to know what SEELE implanted there to replace the pilot, we saw What DPS can do against unit-03 / Bardiel, but the MPE respond slowly and only defeated Asuka because of the S2 engine.

An example of what religious symbolism is vaguely put into this series is when SEELE is discussing their failed attempt to hack the MAGI, they mention that Gendo used a 666 defense device (man, no one will think that it actually represents anything).

One of my expectations before seeing this movie was seeing Lilith (the original) in action

This does not matter, but the traces of some characters' drawings make me uncomfortable in this movie.

The rest of the stuff I do not see problem, maybe I wanted it to have lasted longer, sometimes I think Third Impact is a major event to occur in just one movie, so everything is running out of time.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:36 pm

I've always had a sort of a love/hate relationship with EOE, like there are things about it I adore because its not afraid to go there. Like Asuka's brutal take down off the mass evangelions and being taken down by them and killed and the massacre of the surrendering unarmed Nerv staff which was so sad and the fact that it went for the ending it did. As normally you have a good ending and everyone's happy yet EOE is so open ended also I found human instrumentality in it quite fascinating.

Yet I still find myself hating the hosbital scene which I wish they changed it in that Shinji had left the room and gone inside a toilet else where to do what he was going to do or they had made the scene the same as the manga which is similar but with a very different outcome. Also Shinji not getting up and trying angers me every time, now I get it he'd broken down and he was ruined but its just that he doesn't even try. I mean even if he had tried and failed I wouldn't have minded because heroes don't always win.
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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:33 pm

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:its just that he doesn't even try I mean even if he had tried and failed I wouldn't have minded because heroes don't always win.

So I guess heroes don't always win even against their own weakness.
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Postby peripateia » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:16 pm

So there was a thread on reddit that linked someone's review of NGE as a whole, and the reviewer basically said he really disliked the series because it was so damn realistic, he said that he related to the series on a deeply personal level and that it disturbed him to see parts of himself in the characters.

I'm grateful to be able to relate to the cast of NGE and their depressive episodes on a personal level, rather than disliking that realism I found a measure of comfort in seeing these frail people struggle to accept themselves, that it was a normal thing to struggle through as a young person.

Having said that, I want nothing more than to see the cast achieve personal happiness: I'm crossing my fingers for that sort of resolution in EVA 3.0+1.0.

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Postby Magneto » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:38 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:So I guess heroes don't always win even against their own weakness.

We may think that this is an anime for depressed people after all.
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Postby TheCarkolum » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:46 pm

Few years ago I used to think that EoE>NGE. I thought that it was a masterpiece and a perfect conclusion to the series.

However, with the years I realised the problems EoE had and now I really believe that NGE>>>EoE.

And it's not like NGE is flawless, I don't think so. But, for example, Shinji is not so annoying to me in the series. He is a gutless, whiny and coward teenager, but I understand his issues. His father, his loneliness, he deals with depression and so on. Besides, his characterization is correct, even great sometimes, he overcomes some issues, some don't, but the character is coherently constructed and pretty tridimensional.

However, in EoE, I wanted to punch that little peace of shet in the face. He goes full emo mode, is not coherent or even rational in the slightest. And no, depression does not apply in this case. First, his depression is not so severe. He can do choices of his own, it's not mentally broken like Asuka for God s sake! He says that doesn't want to pilot the EVA because he fears hurting people, yet he let Asuka die in the most horrible way possible because... he just decided it? Are you serious?

Other issues with EoE have to do with plot incoherences, and so on. But still think it's OK.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:14 pm

I can't feel hate towards EoE. I'm not gonna compare it to NGE, because I see no need to compare Evangelion with, well, itself. I don't compare the quality of my head with my foot, so I don't see a need to compare the quality of Episode 1 with the quality of either of the endings of the story that Episode 1 begins. EoE is not only a fine (and arguably an alternative) conclusion to NGE, but it is also a compelling example of filmmaking in its own right. Sometimes I even just watch Evangelion: Death along with EoE just to have a strong night of powerful filmmaking through Evangelion.

I also love the reactions that EoE causes from first-time viewers. I remember someone being introduced to Eva by watching all of NGE and EoE in one night. Throughout the viewing, she would comment "This show has broken me," but when the live-action sequence of EoE began she turned to me and said "I think the movie just broke itself now." It's such a bold and unconventional film, and I'm stunned that it holds together as well as it does.

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:18 pm

If not for EoE, I would likely have forgotten completely about the show and moved on with my life. As with Freaky, I cannot separate it from the rest. If I ever dislike the rest of NGE, I suppose invariably I'll dislike EoE as well -- but, meantime, it occupies a place transcending such simplistic sentiments.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:54 pm

Nope. It's the peak of Evangelion & has a comfortable place among my three favorite films of all time. It has not aged a day since I first saw it over a decade ago. It's gotten better with age.

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Postby CommanderFish » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:04 pm

TheCarkolum wrote:He says that doesn't want to pilot the EVA because he fears hurting people, yet he let Asuka die in the most horrible way possible because... he just decided it? Are you serious?

This comment confuses me. How exactly did he have a choice in saving Asuka? Eva-01 was covered in bakelite and Yui only decided to break out after Asuka had been defeated. What are you implying he could have done in that situation?
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:47 pm

View Original PostCommanderFish wrote:What are you implying he could have done in that situation?
He could have gotten his ass in gear when the first alert sounded (you know, when they were shifting Asuka from her hospital bed to EVA-02), rather than waiting to suicide by JSSDF.
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Postby CommanderFish » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:He could have gotten his ass in gear when the first alert sounded (you know, when they were shifting Asuka from her hospital bed to EVA-02), rather than waiting to suicide by JSSDF.

Okay, yeah. You're right there.
But with that being said, he had no way of knowing what was going to happen to Asuka at that point. So I suppose the degree to which her death is his fault is ultimately up for the viewer to decide.
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Postby The Cruel » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:47 pm

For me with EoE, NGE ended the way it deserved. I would be a fool to expect and hope for a better ending than this. I've seen EoTV shortly before EoE and I would've accepted it too if EoE didn't exist. But I do think that compaired to EoE, EoTV seemed incomplete. What was importaint in making EoTV was just about to end NGE as best as Anno and Gainax could despite how restricted they were. And EoE was the direct answer to that and truly "THE END". For 3.0+1.0 I wouldn't be surprised if people do the same mistake like once with EoE. And I won't feel myself any different from 3.0+1.0, than how I feel about EoE and 3.0.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:24 am

View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote:[Shinji] is a gutless, whiny and coward teenager...


This is one of the biggest errors in judgement I feel people make with this series. Shinji is not a coward...at least not moreso than the average 14-year-old would be in his situation.

To expound, for the majority of the Angel attacks in the series, he still chooses to sortie in his Evangelion unit with no complaints, battling eldritch abominations with regular frequency and achieving success in his efforts. He only runs away from piloting twice in the series, only one time of which he admits is partly due to fear (in Episode 4). The only other time he runs away from NERV is to basically give a big "Fuck you" to Gendo for everything that happened with the Unit 03 incident.

He is a kid that has a very low amount of self worth and piloting an Evangelion unit gives him a reason for being valued, so much so that he is willing to continually pilot after being overwhelmed with everything early on in the series--at which point, he runs away, contemplates his situation and decides to return. The perceived amount of self worth he gains by piloting an Evangelion unit and being useful to people outweighs the inherent fear that he has in performing those monumentally dangerous tasks.

He also DIVES INTO MAGMA-FILLED VOLCANO with no protective outer equipment on his unit in order to save one of his fellow pilots. It is at that exact point that anyone who still considers Shinji a coward are simply wrong.


View Original PostTheCarkolum wrote:However, in EoE, I wanted to punch that little peace of shet in the face. He goes full emo mode, is not coherent or even rational in the slightest. And no, depression does not apply in this case. First, his depression is not so severe. He can do choices of his own, it's not mentally broken like Asuka for God s sake!


It shouldn't take a psychologist for someone to realize that the amount of mental anguish that Shinji has had to put up with over the course of the series was going to reach a breaking point by the end.

Here are just a few of those things:
SPOILER: Show
    -He just found out that one of his co-pilots whom he may or may not have romantic feelings for, but nonetheless is still close to is a mass-produced clone and has a suspicion that she might have some relation to his mother (though this is only hinted at in NGE; it doesn't go as far as to outright confirm he knows Rei is a clone of his mother the way Rebuild does).

    -He's been involved in high-stress, deadly battles with monsters for months.

    -He's still dealing with the fallout from the Eva 03 incident and most likely feels responsible for Toji's injuries.

    -He's struggling with his burgeoning sexuality and everything those feelings entail with the three main females in his life.

    -He is completely isolated from anyone who he could consider a peer or a friend (Asuka is in a coma; he's scared of Rei because of her newly-revealed background; he's uneasy around Misato because she probably tried to have sex with him; and Toji, Kensuke, and Hikari have been evacuated).

    -His relationship with his father is dicey to say the least.



His guilt over being forced to kill the one person who ever offered him affection (even if it's debatable if said affection was genuine) was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back as far as his psyche was concerned. It is because of this that Shinji's actions during the hospital scene and the first act of the film feel logical given the multitude of psychological stressors he was under, to the point where it is very likely that he had a compete mental breakdown, though with not the same effects/outcome as Asuka.

Asuka actively tried to kill herself because of overwhelming feelings of worthlessness.

Shinji violates Asuka to give himself the ultimate reason for why he's a terrible person, but his attempts at suicide can only be described as passive at best. I'm personally not sure he had the mental fortitude to be fully aware of the JSSDF invasion of NERV, but (and this is a question addressed to Tines) if he did and knew they were gonna kill him, why would he hide under a staircase? If he was really suicidal, why wouldn't he just sit fully exposed in the middle of the hallway?

This is all to say the people who complain about Shinji's actions in the first half of EOE as being illogical or irrational aren't taking into account how much shit this kid has been put through for roughly the past half-year and has now been officially pushed into having a complete psychological meltdown. So, of course his actions aren't going to seem rational.
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