Impact trigger discrepancy

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

CyberXIII
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 778
Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Location: Eggmanland
Gender: Male
Contact:

Impact trigger discrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby CyberXIII » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:47 pm

There's no way Shinji Ikari was the one who killed all those people.

Okay, hear me out. In 2.22, we see (Near)Third Impact from start to finish. EVA-01 transforms, absorbs Zeruel, cracks open the Doors of Guf and then is stated by Ritsuko to be preparing to end all life on the planet. However, it lasts for only about a minute, two minutes tops, and then Kaworu shuts it down with the Spear of Cassius.

But more importantly, afterwards nothing else has happened. The populace above ground haven't suddenly become monsters, there's no valley of teeth, just a giant cross-shaped hole in the ground--we see the giant explosion happen and NERV pyramid shatter, and that's it.

Image

See? The houses are untouched, while in 3.33 shows us there should be arms growing out of them.

Most importantly, there's this:

Image

Lilith doesn't move. She doesn't even twitch. Misato and Ritsuko both admit that Third Impact should be caused by an Angel reaching Lilith but here she is completely pristine.

Now, cut to 3.33. The landscape looks like a red eldritch location, horrifying and bleak, and Lilith is now a decapitated rotting corpse in the basement. She's mysteriously shapeshifted into GNR but with Mark 06 in place of her head. And as we see later, the reason Mark 06 is stuck there with the spears inside it is to keep the 12th Angel sealed.More importantly, Kaworu, Ritsuko, and the WILLE computer refer to the event as Near-Third Impact, not Third Impact. Why bother? Why not just call it Third Impact?

Then we get this line from Asuka:

Image

Again with the Third Impact. Not Near-Third Impact, Third Impact.

It's almost as if the real cause was something else altogether. But wait, you might say. Kaworu's lines here pins all responsibility on our anti-hero:

Image

Image

Kaworu has previously demonstrated himself to be the only one that still gives a shit about Shinji's well-being and has no real reason to lie to him. As the First Angel he doesn't need Shinji for anything. However, look at his wording. He does not say "you killed a billion people." He does not even say "you caused Third Impact". His exact words are "you are the cause of all of this." A minor quibble, maybe, but there is a marked difference between being the guy that cracked a giant hole in the ground versus the guy who killed millions and turned more into monsters. Compounding the issue is that the 12th Angel is said to "resume" Third Impact upon its release by Rei Q.

Both sides can't be telling the truth here. WILLE calls the event Shinji caused "Near-Third Impact" while Kaworu calls it "Third Impact", and if Shinji really did cause Third Impact then why would Asuka say the 12th Angel is going to resume it? Why not just say the 12th will start Fourth Impact?

On top of that confusion, there's the problem of WILLE's staff. Most of them are former NERV employees or Tokyo-3 residents, and most of them should know or at least be aware of the truth behind Third Impact. And WILLE's official mission to the public is stated to be "turning the oceans back to blue" while Misato clearly states their mission is to destroy NERV and its EVA Units.

But why the lie? Why not just say so if there's so few people left? Even with the fleet of ships, and the statement by Ritsuko that they haven't been able to fight back against NERV for fourteen years, why not just say NERV is run by a madman and his death cult puppetmasters?

Think about it.

Pinning the blame on Shinji would have allowed them control over the situation. If the truth came out, the whole truth, most of NERV's staff would have been locked up for war crimes, even with SEELE's influence in the picture. And even if that scenario was true, that ignores something vital. Who would ever trust someone like Misato with a weapon like the Wunder?

Also Gendo benefits as well--instead of dealing with someone else, someone he doesn’t know how to manipulate, he gets his old staff, with their laundry list of psychological issues.

WILLE used Shinji like a scapegoat so they’d have the ability to fight NERV and Misato could play Captain Ahab. Shinji was guilty of a lot of things, but mass manslaughter (not murder, that implies intent and there was none here) was not one of them. He made the giant hole, and the Angels did the rest. The 12th Angel had to be the true trigger of Third Impact---Shinji was the cause inasmuch as he was the one who made the hole the Angel slipped through. Which is a collosal fuckup, yes, but not an act of genocide.

Essentially, he tripped over a doomsday device someone else put in front of him. Fourth Impact was his doing as well, but he was in the middle of a psychological break down and more importantly no one told him what removing the spears would REALLY do.

TL;DR: Shinji Ikari was NOT the trigger of Third Impact and did not kill billions.
"Crapsack worlds and anti heroes have their place. Sometimes, they are very necessary. But an endless diet of dreary cyberpunk and dark fantasy won't do us any more favors than an endless feast of glurge. I'd argue that the cynical nature of these really hurt our ability to hope and work for better. It gets us to accept the hopelessness and jaded outlook of things as 'That's the way it is. I can't change it,' and stops us from fighting when we NEED to fight."

I am ask-shinji-ikari on tumblr.com. Feel free to ask me questions!

BlueBasilisk
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 1150
Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Gender: Male

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby BlueBasilisk » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:53 pm

Even the idea that Third Impact killed billions is something people just ran with on their own. When Shinji asks Kaworu what happened to the people in the city, Kaworu doesn't respond. He just goes on about the nature of Instrumentality (or so he claims). The actual scope and death toll of 3I is totally unknown.

The very presence of the 12th Angel blows a hole right through Kaworu's story. As you noted, the devastation has not happened when Unit 01 shuts down and that was fighting the 10th Angel. Enough time passes between the two events for the JSSDF to move in, for Mark.06 to be remodeled for autonomous function, and for the 11th Angel to come and go.

A couple points:

Wille does not ever blame Shinji for Third Impact proper. It's Kaworu and only Kaworu who does. They do accuse him of awakening Unit 01 and causing Near Third Impact (which is completely true since we witnessed the event ourselves) and the second awakening of Unit 01 in space at the beginning of the movie. Ritsuko notes these two points during the debriefing before Mark.09 shows up. Wille's not particularly interested in him one way or the other until he gets back into Unit 13. He was part of a package deal with Unit 01.

CyberXIII wrote:Kaworu has previously demonstrated himself to be the only one that still gives a shit about Shinji's well-being and has no real reason to lie to him.

He has every reason to lie to Shinji. At the end of the movie, Fuyutsuki notes that the devastation left behind after 3/4th Impact is all according to Seele's designs, and since his very first appearance, Kaworu has been openly acting as Seele's agent to fulfill that prophecy they keep talking about. If not for Gendo and Fuyutsuki bamboozling the two of them, Kaworu would have lead Shinji right into Seele's hands with Shinji none the wiser.
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

CyberXIII
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 778
Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Location: Eggmanland
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby CyberXIII » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:58 pm

Yes, except Kaworu clearly states he wants to undo the events of Third Impact, and is genuinely horrified when he realizes too late what removing the spears will do. He didn't want Fourth Impact to happen and killed himself to stop it.

It's almost as if he'd been used and lied to by somebody else--oh wait:

Image

Now who could have possibly been able to pull that off, I wonder.
"Crapsack worlds and anti heroes have their place. Sometimes, they are very necessary. But an endless diet of dreary cyberpunk and dark fantasy won't do us any more favors than an endless feast of glurge. I'd argue that the cynical nature of these really hurt our ability to hope and work for better. It gets us to accept the hopelessness and jaded outlook of things as 'That's the way it is. I can't change it,' and stops us from fighting when we NEED to fight."

I am ask-shinji-ikari on tumblr.com. Feel free to ask me questions!

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:15 am

View Original PostCyberXIII wrote:(not murder, that implies intent and there was none here)


Minor quibble, but that's not actually true. While intent to kill is the main swing factor, there are ways to jump across the murder/manslaughter line in both directions depending on other circumstances... some of which are arguably present here.

Just saying. Good stuff, carry on.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Joseki
Israfel
Israfel
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 459
Joined: Dec 27, 2016
Location: Italy
Gender: Male

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joseki » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:49 am

Technically speaking what Kaworu said can be true. Whatever happened after 2.0 that caused all the destruction seen in 3.0 occurred while Shinji was merged with Eva-01 and him having awakened 01 is part of the reasons there's so much damage on the globe and sent him to space.
But I'm with you when you say that Shinji isn't told the true neither by Wille or Kaworu. They told him nothing.
「希望は残っているよ。どんな時にもね」

29/07/2017

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 9830
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:08 am

View Original PostCyberXIII wrote:Yes, except Kaworu clearly states he wants to undo the events of Third Impact, and is genuinely horrified when he realizes too late what removing the spears will do. He didn't want Fourth Impact to happen and killed himself to stop it.

He didn't want Gendo's particular version of Fourth Impact to happen, which is what we got since he sabotaged the spears. They way things were going, given the knowledge that Kaworu is Seele's Child, is guilt-tripping Shinji, and is also promising him a vague "happiness", it appears that Kaworu was leading him straight for Instrumentality, Seele's version that is. When Kaworu realized he was tricked, that Fourth Impact would not be going the way he and Seele intended, he aborted the Impact. The only difference between Kaworu's version of the mission and the way things actually played out was the change of the spears, which is apparently a significant difference.
"Chaos is merely a human construct. The world only knows its own natural law of harmony and order."
"So you are saying it's the human heart that throws the world into confusion."

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 7502
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:10 am

There are some people on this forum that believe that Kaworu was actively lying to Shinji. The choir in the musical score even chants "Learn to trust, if you must," subtle green implying that trusting in Kaworu might be some sort of mistake.

BlueBasilisk
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 1150
Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Gender: Male

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:06 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:He didn't want Gendo's particular version of Fourth Impact to happen, which is what we got since he sabotaged the spears. They way things were going, given the knowledge that Kaworu is Seele's Child, is guilt-tripping Shinji, and is also promising him a vague "happiness", it appears that Kaworu was leading him straight for Instrumentality, Seele's version that is. When Kaworu realized he was tricked, that Fourth Impact would not be going the way he and Seele intended, he aborted the Impact. The only difference between Kaworu's version of the mission and the way things actually played out was the change of the spears, which is apparently a significant difference.


The imagery in Seele's logo makes a lot of sense when you look at Kaworu this way. A serpent encircling an apple, which is almost exactly what happens to Unit 13 before it all goes pear-shaped.
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

CyberXIII
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 778
Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Location: Eggmanland
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby CyberXIII » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:36 am

Again, that implies Kaworu had malicious intent and we know from the original series and in 3.33 he really didn't NEED Shinji's help to trigger 4th Impact. If he wanted to he could have easily done so himself by hijacking EVA-13.

But he's not the focus here--I'm more concerned with his line about mass extinctions, the fact that Tokyo-3 and the basement of NERV both look like giant mass graves and somehow everyone thinks Shinji is responsible.
"Crapsack worlds and anti heroes have their place. Sometimes, they are very necessary. But an endless diet of dreary cyberpunk and dark fantasy won't do us any more favors than an endless feast of glurge. I'd argue that the cynical nature of these really hurt our ability to hope and work for better. It gets us to accept the hopelessness and jaded outlook of things as 'That's the way it is. I can't change it,' and stops us from fighting when we NEED to fight."

I am ask-shinji-ikari on tumblr.com. Feel free to ask me questions!

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 71
Posts: 9359
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:00 pm

The differences are such that we get precisely nowhere using the series as any kind of guide to Kaworu in Rebuild. There seems to me to be no alternative to accepting that Kaworu lied to Shinji in Q, and I guess that counts as malicious in itself. At the least, he is trying to give Shinji a "happiness" of his choosing, not Shinji's; and the "remaking the world" which he offered might be code for "resetting the world through another impact".
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: Kaworu starts to prepare Shinji for dual-piloting (details); Past avatars.
Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 22648
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:37 pm

View Original PostCyberXIII wrote:in 3.33 he really didn't NEED Shinji's help to trigger 4th Impact.

One soul per Spear was the stated plan. We can believe Kaworu here on account of Gendo being forced to get someone other than Rei Q (whose soul is "somewhere else") to provide Soul #2.

General: Far as Kaworu lying goes, he doesn't seem to be doing this when he calls CD the epicenter of 3I.
Avatar: "That's right. I'm a gay robot." (David 8 image by Junseo)
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 22566
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:55 pm

I did a recent (just last week) rewatch of the NGE TV series and the NTE films. Initially (my first 3.0 watch was in 2013, or whenever) I thought Kaworu was lying, but now? I'm hoping a line in FINAL (from Asuka, Ritsuko, whoever) will clarify just what went down because N3I's bound to come up even inadvertently, I think.

Something the rewatch actually clarified for me is N3I being continued then aborted so far twice (right?)—which makes the "Final Impact" line in the Preview make a bit more sense. (Thank you Studio Khara on the Funi release subs.)
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

BlueBasilisk
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 1150
Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Gender: Male

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:14 pm

You're quite right. Some of the things he says do seem to be true. His description of what the Human Instrumentality Project is supposed to do jives with everything Seele and Gendo have said about it, although he then leads Shinji to the conclusion that it's Gendo's doing instead of Seele's own pet project (which Gendo has been working to sabotage all along). You have to compare notes with other scenes and movies to see where he's being deceptive or omitting key information. Shinji wasn't present for most of those scenes and isn't aware of Seele or what Gendo is working toward, so he really has no reason to suspect Kaworu isn't being 100% honest.
Someday I hope that we'll be reunited if that is what's destined to be. Perhaps we'll discover that elusive bible. And then we will finally be free!

CyberXIII
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 778
Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Location: Eggmanland
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby CyberXIII » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:50 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:You're quite right. Some of the things he says do seem to be true. His description of what the Human Instrumentality Project is supposed to do jives with everything Seele and Gendo have said about it, although he then leads Shinji to the conclusion that it's Gendo's doing instead of Seele's own pet project (which Gendo has been working to sabotage all along). You have to compare notes with other scenes and movies to see where he's being deceptive or omitting key information. Shinji wasn't present for most of those scenes and isn't aware of Seele or what Gendo is working toward, so he really has no reason to suspect Kaworu isn't being 100% honest.


And judging from a few cues from the other continuities, as well as Kaworu's surprise that the spears aren't in the configuration he thought they were...

Kaworu probably was being fed a line of bullshit and didn't realize it until it was too late. Again, what benefit does he get from lying to Shinji? He needs Shinji to trust him and explicitly does not want to cause 4th Impact. Now some people would take this too far in the other direction and claim he was in love with Shinji (developer commentary does not help here) but he clearly is more worried about Shinji than, say, Misato or Asuka.

Even if we find out later Kaworu was wrong he still respected Shinji enough to explain what happened in 3rd Impact and why everyone did this. The real trouble is he omits that Shinji clearly didn't kill anyone or do anything other than what he was supposed to. His exact words and vague explanations only hurt Shinji worse.

Which then bites him in the ass when Shinji has become so desperate and so far in denial that Shinji yanks out the spears.
"Crapsack worlds and anti heroes have their place. Sometimes, they are very necessary. But an endless diet of dreary cyberpunk and dark fantasy won't do us any more favors than an endless feast of glurge. I'd argue that the cynical nature of these really hurt our ability to hope and work for better. It gets us to accept the hopelessness and jaded outlook of things as 'That's the way it is. I can't change it,' and stops us from fighting when we NEED to fight."

I am ask-shinji-ikari on tumblr.com. Feel free to ask me questions!

Geometer
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 63
Joined: Dec 22, 2016

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Geometer » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:40 pm

I hope your right. In eva the blame usually can be spread around and not pinned on one person. The biggest problem I had with the rebuilds so far is that it 3.33 seems to be about a young man avoiding his due punishment. It seems to be saying that due to Shinji's desire to find a quick and easy way to fix his suffering he made everything worse. Not that this is entirely wrong, but the problem I have with this is that the correct decision is almost anti-eva. Shinji would be making himself miserable just so that people like him slightly better, and not even that, more like that people will dislike dislike him less. This goes against one of the most important messages of eva. Its hard to see the "right" decision for Shinji to take is at this point if everything is to be blamed on Shinji as a first glance at 3.33 seems to imply.

Stillborn
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Posts: 2412
Joined: Apr 28, 2013
Location: Huge wastebin
Gender: Male

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Stillborn » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:53 am

That's the problem I have with this movie. Everyone makes mistakes but only Shinji is held accounatble and blamed. And I have a feeling that the next movie will keep bashing in how horrible person Shinji is for not taking the punishment etc...
Another jaded man.
Wciąż stoję nieruchomo, w nieżywym już szeregu. Umieram na stojąco, niech inni giną w biegu.

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 9830
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:38 am

View Original PostCyberXIII wrote:He needs Shinji to trust him and explicitly does not want to cause 4th Impact. .

What evidence do we have that Kaworu did not want to start 4th Impact? He most certainly wanted to do something involving Lillith, the 12th Angel, Unit-13, and two different spears (all the ingredients necessary for an Impact). The only thing we know that went wrong was that the spears were both the same, rather than being counterparts. The entire film, Kaworu comes across as the religious purist who advocates atonement and blind devotion to a suicide cult in order to achieve happiness beyond this life. He continuously guilts Shinji, promises an ambiguous form of salvation, and then lures Shinji into Seele's schemes. All the while, Kaworu may not have even had malicious intent; he might have genuinely believed that Instrumentality would be the answer to Shinji's happiness.
"Chaos is merely a human construct. The world only knows its own natural law of harmony and order."
"So you are saying it's the human heart that throws the world into confusion."

Joseki
Israfel
Israfel
User avatar
Age: 21
Posts: 459
Joined: Dec 27, 2016
Location: Italy
Gender: Male

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joseki » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:07 am

View Original PostStillborn wrote:That's the problem I have with this movie. Everyone makes mistakes but only Shinji is held accounatble and blamed. And I have a feeling that the next movie will keep bashing in how horrible person Shinji is for not taking the punishment etc...


That will surely be part of the movie but hopefully Anno will make Asuka and especially Misato realise their mistakes.
「希望は残っているよ。どんな時にもね」

29/07/2017

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 22648
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:05 am

View Original PostStillborn wrote:That's the problem I have with this movie. Everyone makes mistakes but only Shinji is held accounatble and blamed.

I think any impression that this is the case is mostly an artifact of Shinji POV-induced information myopia. Given how little we're shown, the claim you're making is patently unsupportable.
Avatar: "That's right. I'm a gay robot." (David 8 image by Junseo)
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

jcmoorehead
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 617
Joined: Dec 30, 2005
Location: Edinburgh
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Impact trigger disrepancy

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby jcmoorehead » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:13 am

View Original PostJoseki wrote:That will surely be part of the movie but hopefully Anno will make Asuka and especially Misato realise their mistakes.


I know, considering the differences between the one in 2.22 and what we got in 3.33, that we can't take it completely at face value but the preview for Final did state that Shinji would find hope in the film. So I don't quite think it's going to be the huge pile on Shinji-fest that others think it's going to be. I imagine the first part will drill home the mistakes he made but then over the course of it it'll shift.

On the topic itself, there is definitely more to be explored/explained regarding the Third Impact. Shinji certainly started a process but we saw that ended. Kaworu definitely wasn't upfront about everything as others have pointed out, he didn't mention his role at the end of 2.22 and definitely played Shinji a little bit.


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests