Who'se really in charge of Wille

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Who'se really in charge of Wille

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:13 am

In the "Shinji Hate" thread there was this remark about Misato:

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:She could be in serious shit with her superiors in Wille

But it seems to me that it is usually assumed she's in charge (whether alone or jointly with Rits and maybe Kaji). At no point in the story is there any indication that there is anyone who was previously above her in the hierarchy other than Gendou (+ Fuyu) and Seele. I suppose one could conjecture that Wille was set up by the Japanese government, but there's no hint of that shown.

What do other people think?
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Postby Kendrix » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:46 am

I see no reason to assume that any superiors exist;

None a ever mentioned and a big deal is made of the Wunder being humanity's last hope.

I mean in a chaotic environment panic can't be risked so there might be some pressure to mantain her crew's morale and loyalty but so far as things go, her underlings seem to like & admire her.

They had Sakura's VA do her lines exty times so she sounds respectful enough.

I imagine that if your name is not Shinji, Misato is still to an extent the bold, optimistic & emphatic leader she used to be, through more pragmatic to fit the terrifying world of Q. (As Asuka notes.)

See also how Gendo notes that "Katsuragi's" actions are within parameters suggesting that she's WILLE's mastermind.

That said, they might have recruited from other sources - See that guy who might have been a former co-worker of Kaji's -
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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:58 am

I'd just assume that Wille is decentralized and doesn't have a leader per se. There's likely much more to the organization than what we see, so Misato might be in charge of their principal/only military force, while having equals who precide over other operations.

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Postby jcmoorehead » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:01 am

In my Post 3.33 Fic, I kinda went with the idea that WILLE has a group up at the top ahead of Misato who manage things like the remaining human settlements and so on but because of who Misato is, her history and relationship with NERV she and the Wunder are pretty much given free reign to do their own thing.

That's purely just fanwanking though.

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Postby Joseki » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:06 am

Watching the movie I got the feeling she's the one in charge. Honestly I felt that she's WILLE, she takes everything on her shoulders and just goes on. I bet she founded WILLE after NTI both to save humanity and with guilty to what she said to Shinji.

She had total control on what to do with Eva 01 and she was the one that had to decide what to do with Shinji, so I think she doesn't really have no one over her head.
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Postby BlueBasilisk » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:55 am

My impression after watching the movie is that Wille is either a UN organization (the blue armbands, the ships, the amount of resources at their disposal) or a multi-national coalition made up of former UN members that's basically a lateral move from Nerv. Misato's role on Wunder seems equivalent to Gendo's role as supreme commander, and even he had people to answer to (not that he ever did other than Seele...). I think there'll be someone higher up the totem pole than Misato, whether that's Kaji, a UN council or some other body we haven't seen before.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:58 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:But it seems to me that it is usually assumed she's in charge (whether alone or jointly with Rits and maybe Kaji). At no point in the story is there any indication that there is anyone who was previously above her in the hierarchy other than Gendou (+ Fuyu) and Seele. I suppose one could conjecture that Wille was set up by the Japanese government, but there's no hint of that shown.

What do other people think?


I don't recall seeing any indication that Misato answers to anyone, so it seems unlikely. I imagine she does have equals, though, as there are an awful lot of ships (and an awful lot of vehicles supporting them) in the Wunder's fleet. I doubt one person is in charge of all of that.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:17 am

Wille seemed to me like a make-shift idealist crew built out of whatever pieces-parts they could scrounge up. (Misato feels like she needs an S2 Engine in the Wunder, so she goes out and gets an S2 Engine for the Wunder. No formal signatures and approval required.) Having "Superiors" above Misato would suggest that Wille has an annual budget or something that Misato needs to adhere to. There's no way an organization with a budget and red tape would hire on Midori Kitakami, who sounded like she was only starting to figure out how all this junk worked and what her full responsibilities were. "Superiors" worth any salt would not approve the hiring of such a person. Much of the crew sounds like they were interview by Misato (or Kaji) simply asking "You wanna make a better tomorrow?" or "You hate Nerv?" (Engineers were probably interviewed by Ritsuko and maybe even Maya. Misato's interaction would them would probably be "You know how to work this thing?" and "You hate Nerv?")

Also, I don't think anyone in Wille is getting paid anything. I see them as a bunch of freedom fighters desperately banding together to keep Nerv from destroying everything. Everyone at Wille seems to be working for a cause and are rewarded with food and shelter. There is no apparent budget beyond "What can we steal today?"

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Postby Joseki » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:27 am

View Original Postjcmoorehead wrote:In my Post 3.33 Fic, I kinda went with the idea that WILLE has a group up at the top ahead of Misato who manage things like the remaining human settlements and so on but because of who Misato is, her history and relationship with NERV she and the Wunder are pretty much given free reign to do their own thing.

That's purely just fanwanking though.


That's an interesting option but a simple group of people ahead of Misato wouldn't be able to control her as far as we know. She has two EVAs and Wunder with EVA-01 as its core. That would be more of a "moral obligation" than really having someone with more power and nothing could really stop her.

Anyway that's a very specific philosophical question more than an Evangelion related one so it's just pure speculation.
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Postby Geometer » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:04 pm

I would assume that she may not have superiors but still "answers to" whats left of the UN or whatever attempt at governance is left.

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Postby Sachi » Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:28 pm

I'm surprised no one has said the one obvious answer to this question: Gendo. He's always been the one pulling all the strings. Just like he manipulated Shinji, he manipulated his very own staff at Nerv into thinking they rebelled against him by forming Wille, when in reality they're working to serve his ends. Everything they do happens within "acceptable parameters".
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:24 pm

^ Certainly, but I don't think Misato answers to Gendo. Gendo is just really good at manipulating people into doing what he wants.

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:45 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:^ Certainly, but I don't think Misato answers to Gendo. Gendo is just really good at manipulating people into doing what he wants.


Or rather, he's good at spewing bullshit and claiming that anything that happens, no matter the particulars, plays into his hands. If he was as good as he says he is 3I would have gone off without a hitch and we'd be done with this already.
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Postby Geometer » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:53 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Or rather, he's good at spewing bullshit and claiming that anything that happens, no matter the particulars, plays into his hands. If he was as good as he says he is 3I would have gone off without a hitch and we'd be done with this already.

Well why would he just life to himself and Futuyski? Not like hes has to impress anyone, except the audience.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:55 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Or rather, he's good at spewing bullshit and claiming that anything that happens, no matter the particulars, plays into his hands. If he was as good as he says he is 3I would have gone off without a hitch and we'd be done with this already.

That is very likely, but I don't really know what Gendo's ultimate plan really is yet anyway. Has he announced that he wanted a full-blown 3I in NTE? Many of his cryptic dialogue with Fuyutsuki really only involved how many Angles were left to fight and creating an "actualized God." I personally don't recall anything more than that. It could be that 3I wasn't really that important to Gendo and that things are still going according to his plan.

That being said, some weird, cryptic plan being kept to the letter for about 14 years after the Angle battles were initiated does seem a bit preposterous, even for Gendo. I can certainly see where it's plausible be could be bluffing every so often in order to save face, even if there's no hard evidence for it just yet.

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:05 pm

View Original PostGeometer wrote:Well why would he just life to himself and Futuyski? Not like hes has to impress anyone, except the audience.


Why would someone delude himself into thinking obvious setbacks aren't setbacks at all, but are instead events proceeding just as planned? I can't imagine.
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Postby Lennik » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:26 am

Gendo is definitely bluffing, or maybe he's just deluded. At several points in 1.0 and 2.0 he talks about how his plan has almost come to fruition, and yet 14 years later he's still having trouble. He's delusional. That's why he thinks Yui is going to accept him with open arms and why he has no idea why the dummy plug refuses to work at the climax of 2.0 and Shinji has to come and bail him out. The fact that Yui refuses to operate without Shinji because she loves her son appears to be totally lost on him, and that simple human emotion nearly threw a wrench in his plans that would have gotten all of humanity killed, him included, if Shinji hadn't decided to return and fight Zeruel.

Gendo is flying by the seat of his pants. If his goal is still instrumentality, I predict what screws it up for him will be his own son doing something as simple as making a decision, and Gendo will never see it coming, because how can someone descended from him not be a nihilistic loser who wants to live in the past?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:56 am

^Seele did the same thing. Kaworu said the promised time had arrived when Mark.06 descended to earth, but nothing came of that until 14 years later either. Seems like they both had to regroup after whatever happened during 3rd Impact. I think Gendo's strength isn't that he has everything plotted out, but that he's able to adapt to an ever-changing situation and twist things to his advantage. Doesn't always work out as he found out with Unit 01 and the dummy plug. Even his victory over Seele was a "this will do for now."

Gendo hasn't said what he's plotting yet, but based on some of the things he and Fuyutsuki have said, it appears that Yui was involved in masterminding it and her entering Unit 01 was all part of the plan.

View Original PostGeometer wrote:I would assume that she may not have superiors but still "answers to" whats left of the UN or whatever attempt at governance is left.

This is what I was actually thinking of with the opening post. The hypothetical committee/council/agency/what have you that oversees Wille. Even in a post-apocalypse world I find it hard to imagine that Misato would be allowed to run around with three Evas and an entire fleet with no supervision. I personally think it's whoever was backing Kaji and Mari but that hasn't been confirmed or denied yet, so it's pure speculation. ^_^
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Postby Kendrix » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:55 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Wille seemed to me like a make-shift idealist crew built out of whatever pieces-parts they could scrounge up. (Misato feels like she needs an S2 Engine in the Wunder, so she goes out and gets an S2 Engine for the Wunder. No formal signatures and approval required.) Having "Superiors" above Misato would suggest that Wille has an annual budget or something that Misato needs to adhere to. There's no way an organization with a budget and red tape would hire on Midori Kitakami, who sounded like she was only starting to figure out how all this junk worked and what her full responsibilities were. "Superiors" worth any salt would not approve the hiring of such a person. Much of the crew sounds like they were interview by Misato (or Kaji) simply asking "You wanna make a better tomorrow?" or "You hate Nerv?" (Engineers were probably interviewed by Ritsuko and maybe even Maya. Misato's interaction would them would probably be "You know how to work this thing?" and "You hate Nerv?")

Also, I don't think anyone in Wille is getting paid anything. I see them as a bunch of freedom fighters desperately banding together to keep Nerv from destroying everything. Everyone at Wille seems to be working for a cause and are rewarded with food and shelter. There is no apparent budget beyond "What can we steal today?"


THIS.

I very much got a 'ragtag bunch of survivors' vibe there, like, they are taking what they can get, manpower shortages are mentioned etc. I don't think there IS government anymore, aside from enclaves of survivors being run as citystates.

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote: I think Gendo's strength isn't that he has everything plotted out, but that he's able to adapt to an ever-changing situation and twist things to his advantage.


He's certainly more flexible than SEELE and that's his edge. More a tactician than a strategist. That is not the same as 'flying by the seat of your pants'. The timeskip seems to have brought setbacks for everyone involved. Misato's defection could have involved a thwarting or delaying of whatever was supposed to be comming 'soon'.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:06 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:THIS.

I very much got a 'ragtag bunch of survivors' vibe there, like, they are taking what they can get, manpower shortages are mentioned etc. I don't think there IS government anymore, aside from enclaves of survivors being run as citystates.

Except that the Wunder is fleet is made of dozen of aircraft carriers, cruisers, destroyers, submarines, cargo ships... enough ships to put to shame all of the US Navy Pacific Fleets, and then there's the AAA Wunder itself, who's a whole fleet by itself. You just don't maintain such a gargantuan fleet in a Fallout-like scavenging supply routine.
Hell, the first scene with the fleet had a huge fleet of choppers delivering cargo to the naval fleet, if that's not an indication that there's some serious supply chain organization going on in behind the scenes.

So I wouldn't be surprised if there are other branches of WILLE around the world, and even higher-ups Misato has to respond to.
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