The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation

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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:58 am

This is a set of subtitles for The End of Evangelion (1997).

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4fNpxiuCvtEUklHWFlod29uaUE

I've never been satisfied with any one translation, so this is an amalgamation of six different translations (including one by me), exhibiting what I believe to be the best that each one has to offer. The result is a unique blend that I consider to be the best translation of the movie—if I can say that with any kind of humility.

Part of what differentiates this amalgamation from a composite is that the lines I've chosen to use from existing translations are rarely left untouched. I've edited dialog throughout the entire translation, but I've only done this with the intention of preserving what I perceive to be the intended meaning, essence, and emotion of the original Japanese dialog. In other words, I've adapted the dialog for English—which I believe is necessary for a good translation from Japanese to English.

If you catch an error or think of a way to improve my subtitles, let me know! If I make a change based on your help, I will gladly give you credit (unless of course you would prefer not to be mentioned).

And if anyone can find fonts that are a closer match to the font used for the subtitles of the TV series on VHS (which is what these subtitles are based on), please let me know! The fonts I'm using are close, but aren't quite perfect.

Also note that these subtitles are designed to form a set with the subtitles I did for Neon Genesis Evangelion (1995–1996).
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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:12 am

Happy 20th Anniversary!

Twenty years ago on July 19, 1997, The End of Evangelion was released. To commemorate this date (a few hours late), and because I've made some recent translation improvements to the subtitles, I thought now would be an appropriate time for a new release. I've also incorporated two new translation sources, which now makes these subtitles an amalgamation of eight different translation sources.

https://evangelionsubtitles.wordpress.com/eoe/

As always, let me know if you think of a way to improve any aspect, especially the translation, and I'll of course give you credit unless you'd rather not be mentioned. To see what's different, take a look at the Translation Changes spreadsheet in the Documentation folder of the download. Also included in the download are additional subtitle variations (according to an alternate video resolution and processing method), and an AviSynth script and VirtualDub processing settings for automatically turning the video of the 2003 Region 2 DVD into an AVI.

And as you can see from the new link, I've also created a website which makes traversing the project notes easy, and there are also now screenshots.

Edit:
If you downloaded these subtitles within the first three days of this post, please try the new download, as various technical issues such as resolution have been corrected.
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Postby HARVEST » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:17 pm

Nice, now I just wish for a Death (true)2 fansub amalgamation to accompany this.

Now, I searched for accurate Death subtitles and I found FreakyFilmFan4ever's but I think it's less polished than your EoE or TV subs, plus, it's more based on the Platinum Edition rather than your VHS recreation, and, much of your fancy options in this and the VHS subs aren't available.

I have very few complaints with your EoE subtitles.

And I actually prefer this to the official subs, since I had the misfortune of watching EoE first with those subs.

One complaint I do have to make is that when we are shown the title cards for Episode 25' and 26' is that you forgot to add in the apostrophe (') symbol in the end of each number.
Which is wrong, since 25 and 26 are the TV ending while 25' and 26' are EoE.

Other than that, your EoE subtitles are the beat out there.
I avoided the Death and EoE dubs like the plague because of how crappy they are compared to the TV dubs, which I really loved.
And this is my favorite way of watching EoE, and my favorite subtitle translation.

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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:29 am

HARVEST wrote:One complaint I do have to make is that when we are shown the title cards for Episode 25' and 26' is that you forgot to add in the apostrophe (') symbol in the end of each number.
Which is wrong, since 25 and 26 are the TV ending while 25' and 26' are EoE.

Actually, I intentionally omitted the apostrophes because they aren't present in the original Japanese titles! While you are correct, the creators chose to omit them onscreen, and so I followed suit. While it's possible they themselves forgot the apostrophes, I find it more likely it was intentional. But if anyone can shed some more light on this, I'd be interested to know.

HARVEST wrote:Other than that, your EoE subtitles are the beat out there.

Thank you, that's great to hear!

HARVEST wrote:now I just wish for a Death (true)2 fansub amalgamation to accompany this.

Thanks for the interest, but since the Director's Cut episodes can be integrated into the viewing experience without the narrative redundancy that Death has, I consider the DC episodes a higher priority. I've actually had something in the works for the DC episodes for quite sometime now, but it's been on the back burner: updates to both the NGE and EoE subtitles I made are coming before that. I'm more interested in nailing the essentials before tackling extras like Death. That having been said, there's a possibility I will get to doing Death subtitles one day—just don't hold your breath. It may be a long time, or it may be never. So I encourage you to take a stab at it yourself.
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Postby HARVEST » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:57 am

Actually, the Japanese episodes 25 and 26 had the episode numbers in old Kanji (I think, my knowledge of Japanese is very limited) while 25' and 26' were in Arabic numerals but without the apostrophe in Japanese.

Also, Kiel is apparently a more accurate translation of Keel, but since this is just like Kaworu/Kaoru, I don't know what you want to add.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:10 am

View Original PostMjolnir Mark IV wrote:Actually, I intentionally omitted the apostrophes because they aren't present in the original Japanese titles!

Image

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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:53 am

HARVEST wrote:Actually, the Japanese episodes 25 and 26 had the episode numbers in old Kanji (I think, my knowledge of Japanese is very limited) while 25' and 26' were in Arabic numerals but without the apostrophe in Japanese.

If you look at the two EoE titles I've subtitled, the numbers are Arabic numerals with no apostrophe.

HARVEST wrote:Also, Kiel is apparently a more accurate translation of Keel, but since this is just like Kaworu/Kaoru, I don't know what you want to add.

What evidence suggests Kiel is more accurate?

Reichu wrote:Image

Thanks, but that title is originally all in English, so no need for any subtitles. I was referring to the titles with Japanese writing, which don't have the apostrophe.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:17 am

View Original PostMjolnir Mark IV wrote:What evidence suggests Kiel is more accurate?

Lorenz's first name is written in katakana as キール, the pronunciation of which corresponds to the German name "Kiel". In German, a name spelled "Keel" would be pronounced sort of like the name of a certain bitter leafy green; one would expect to see a katakana rendition along the lines of ケール.

Supplemental materials released in the 90s do use the spelling "Keel" but newer ones like Evangelion Chronicle thankfully switch to "Kiel".

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Postby HARVEST » Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:46 pm

I checked the Platinum Edition subtitles if they have any differentiation on the numbering of Director's Cuts episodes (hint: the apostrophe).
They have no apostrophe either when they just subtitle the Japanese titles. And the numbers are in word-form.

So, maybe leaving the episode numbers without apostrophes might be a better fit.

Plus, I would've wished for a Blu-ray version since I don't know how to sync up subs well.
However, I know that it will probably take a little more time and it's not as popular as the Renewal DVDs.

Also, the Renewal and Blu-ray Feature Film releases have 5.1 and 2.0 audio mixes.
The 5.1 version is a remix but I am not sure if they actually changed the music, takes, or sound effects like the TV Renewal episodes.
It's probably identical to the original mix (but in 5.1 and with a bigger sound space).

But for any case, the 2.0 version is the original theatrical mix. Turn on Dolby Pro Logic to replicate how it sounded in a cinema.

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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:20 am

Reichu wrote:Lorenz's first name is written in katakana as キール, the pronunciation of which corresponds to the German name "Kiel".

The pronunciation (and nautical nomenclature) also corresponds to the English word "keel," so what indication is there that it's from German and not English?

HARVEST wrote:Plus, I would've wished for a Blu-ray version since I don't know how to sync up subs well.

What do you think of the colors of the Blu-ray release of the movie? The main reason I haven't considered doing subtitles for it is because I assumed the colors would be just as bad as they are for the rest of the Blu-ray set. That and it's not really worth it to me to buy a set I don't want just for the movie.

HARVEST wrote:However, I know that it will probably take a little more time and it's not as popular as the Renewal DVDs.

Shifting the times of all subtitles can easily be done using Aegisub, which is the program I use for finalizing the subtitles. Changing the resolution of the subs is also pretty straightforward. So I imagine a Blu-ray conversion would be fairly simple in this case.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:26 pm

View Original PostMjolnir Mark IV wrote:The pronunciation (and nautical nomenclature) also corresponds to the English word "keel," so what indication is there that it's from German and not English?

The character is pretty obviously supposed to be German (at least culturally, so he could be Austrian like his namesake Konrad Lorenz and it wouldn't make any difference), so I'm not quite sure what you're asking.

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:15 pm

Even in England, Keel is a far less likely name than Kiel.
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:11 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:The character is pretty obviously supposed to be German

How so?
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Postby pwhodges » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:58 am

"Kiel" and "Lorenz" are both German names. But then, there's this from The Essential Evangelion Chronicles, Side A, p36:
The only personal information that is readily known about Kiel [sic] includes the fact that he is originally from Germany [...]
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:52 am

Thanks for pointing out that book. How official is it? Is it canonized by Anno?

I have to say though, even if it is, a name and a short blurb in a book published 20 years after the anime hardly makes him pretty obviously German. That's something you have to dig for.

Otherwise, the name Lorenz is not enough to substantiate a person as German. At best, it means there's a chance the person is German.
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Postby pwhodges » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:40 am

Why are you working so hard to try to discredit the simply obvious conclusion? Occam would be displeased...
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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:09 am

I'm not trying to discredit anything. I simply need something substantial in order to feel confident in changing the translation. So far, all I've seen is conjecture. I really appreciate the participation and help that have been given to me by you and others, but what makes the conclusion you've arrived at so obvious? Telling me why it's obvious would be much more helpful than just telling me it's obvious.
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Postby pwhodges » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:36 am

Are you seriously asking why it is obvious that a German name is likely to be German?

And this isn't even a translation issue at all - it's no more than your latching on to an inappropriate romanisation for some reason. They took the German name "Kiel", this was then represented in kana as キール, which was then incorrectly rendered back as "Keel" in early materials. That was doubtless down to nothing more than someone who was not sufficiently aware of what Western name the kana were meant to represent.
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Postby HARVEST » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:14 pm

The TV Series Blu-rays, even if they are nice and high-res, and sound great in 5.1, have an altered color palette and some edits from the TV version and the initial home video release.
I keep switching back and forth from the Archives of Evangelion DVD BOX and the Neon Genesis Evangelion Blu-ray BOX for which version of the TV series is better, though I usually prefer the Archives DVD.

However, they didn't do much tweaking to the movies on Blu-ray, if they even tweaked them at all other than making them HD.
The colors are really nice and are quite similar to the Renewal Feature Film DVDs.
In fact, EoE has to be one of the most gorgeous 2D animation remasters on Blu-ray of all time.

They come in either theatrical edition or Revival of Evangelion flavours.
The theatrical edition of Death and Rebirth is sharper than the RoE version but EoE is similar to the RoE version, and both of the theatrical editions are only in LPCM 2.0 Dolby Surround, as they were in cinemas (the 5.1 is a remix).
And we finally have the theatrical edition of Evangelion:Death rather than Death (true^2).
Revival of Evangelion is the combination of Death (true^2) (no Rebirth) and EoE for a re-release in '98 and was the version of the movies on the Revival DVD.
Death had some alterations for Revival (since Revival is the first appearance of Death (true^2) but EoE is mostly (if not completely) intact.
One bonus for the Revival version is that it has the Renewal 5.1 remix alongside the original 2.0 Dolby Surround mix.

The 5.1 mix is technically a remix but they probably didn't change much, if at all.
They just expanded the sound space for the 5.1 remix.
But still, the 2.0 mix is still the original mix and how it was presented in cinemas.

The Blu-rays are, without a doubt, the best versions of the movies.
While whether the Blu-ray BOX is better than the Archives of Evangelion DVD BOX or not for the TV series is up for debate, even for me.
I would definitely call the Blu-ray versions of the movies the definitive versions with no second opinion.
Other than it doesn't include Death(true), which is in the Archives DVD BOX.
It's just a win-win situation. And it feels really awesome getting the closest thing you can have to an actual 35mm cinema projection on home video.

Plus, it also has the Genesis versions of Air and My Purest Heart for You.

P.S: You said something about the Director's Cut subtitle project, right?
Will they be based on the Resurrection/Genesis Reborn DVDs?
I think so as to make it more consistent with your Perfect Collection VHS subtitles.
Plus, the pre-Renewal Director's Cuts had some exclusive stuff (like the uncensored Rape/Death text flashing during Asuka's mind rape, and the flashing images in the Reiquarium) not in the Renewal/Platinum Edition Director's Cuts.

P.P.S: I think Asuka's last line should be translated as "How sickening..." instead of "Disgusting...", as "Kimochi warui..." has a double meaning between literally feeling sick or being disgusted.
I think "How sickening..." is the best way to translate it in English.

Also, I made my own slightly edited version of your subtitles which have the aforementioned "How sickening..." line, an actual English overlay for the (Silence) text (rather than your subtitled version), complete with effects, an English overlay for the "Do you feel good?" screen, and a better "Neon Genesis Evangelion: Theatrical Version screen" screen with a slimmed down Times New Roman Bold font to better look like the English logo, since I think your version of the overlay (which just uses the same Helvetica font like the episode titles) feels a bit ugly/generic and ADV most likely would've added the English logo with Theatrical Version added on the bottom if ADV did get to release EoE.
I also made an English overlay for Air.
I just copied a white background, shrunk it, and added Episode 25 in your typical episode title font and Air is in a leaner version of Times New Roman Bold, the same one for Neon Genesis Evangelion's logo in my subs.
It's not an exact match but it's a close resemblance.
The (Silence) and "Do you feel good?" overlays are taken from [OZC] but the Air and Neon Genesis Evangelion overlays are made mostly from scratch.

I found how to do the (Silence) and "Do you feel good?" effects thanks to scavenging them from [OZC]'s subtitles for EoE, which are just the Manga subtitles but with fancier effects.
I combined said fancy effects with your script and font to make them more consistent with your subtitles.
I am a complete amateur at this field, though.
That's all.

I made those edited subtitles to help you, since I feel you can incorporate my alterations for your next official update.

I can't PM it to you for now since my connection is crappy.

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Postby Mjolnir Mark IV » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:51 pm

pwhodges wrote:Are you seriously asking why it is obvious that a German name is likely to be German?

No. Remember that my initial question regarding his first name was "what indication is there that it's from German and not English?" No one's provided a reply that answers that question. However, I recently came up with one myself.

I remembered the German prevalence for the names of key organizations in the series (Nerv, Gehirn, Seele), and thought about how K. Lorenz is as likely a candidate as anyone for naming them, since he's such a key character at the center of them all. That combined with the fact that he has a German last name bumps the likelihood of his first name being German up a notch.

That's enough for me to change the romanization to Kiel. Although I would like to know if this is what makes it obvious to you and Reichu that he's German, or whether there's something else I'm missing. Either way, thanks everyone for offering your insight, and I hope you all continue to offer more in the future.

pwhodges wrote:And this isn't even a translation issue at all - it's no more than your latching on to an inappropriate romanisation for some reason.

I can see why you would make this assumption, but it isn't true at all. While the translation used as the base for the NGE subtitles I did is the VHS translation, I've corrected every spelling and translation error that I know of. So romanization is definitely not something I've latched onto, and this particular example is no exception. What you were witnessing was my reluctance to make a change based on lack of evidence. It would be reckless to change the translation without being pretty sure I'm right.

HARVEST wrote:they didn't do much tweaking to the movies on Blu-ray, if they even tweaked them at all other than making them HD.
The colors are really nice and are quite similar to the Renewal Feature Film DVDs.

That's great to hear! And thanks for that overview/review of the BD release of the film. I should really consider investing in it at some point, although I might still have trouble convincing myself to get such an expensive set for just one disc.

HARVEST wrote:P.S: You said something about the Director's Cut subtitle project, right?
Will they be based on the Resurrection/Genesis Reborn DVDs?

The short answer is yes, but it's a bit more complicated than that.

HARVEST wrote:I think so as to make it more consistent with your Perfect Collection VHS subtitles.

Right, but more specifically, to match the video the subtitles are designed to be used with (I think that's probably what you meant).

HARVEST wrote:Plus, the pre-Renewal Director's Cuts had some exclusive stuff (like the uncensored Rape/Death text flashing during Asuka's mind rape, and the flashing images in the Reiquarium) not in the Renewal/Platinum Edition Director's Cuts.

Interesting, I didn't realize that. The main reason I compared those two versions was to see which one would be a better fit to complement my project, but I didn't compare every shot, so this detail slipped by me. That and I actually haven't seen the Director's Cut episodes nearly as many times as I've seen the regular episodes.

HARVEST wrote:P.P.S: I think Asuka's last line should be translated as "How sickening..." instead of "Disgusting...", as "Kimochi warui..." has a double meaning between literally feeling sick or being disgusted.
I think "How sickening..." is the best way to translate it in English.

Ah, yes. 気持ちワルイ. I've been aware of the controversy with translating this line for a very long time—I'm pretty sure I remember it being debated on the mailing list way back in the day. An alternative I considered was "How disgusting."

Can anyone else offer some more input on this?

HARVEST wrote:Also, I made my own slightly edited version of your subtitles which have

HARVEST wrote:an actual English overlay for the (Silence) text (rather than your subtitled version), complete with effects,

Before release, I actually experimented by doing this same thing myself, making an English overlay complete with progressive blurring, shrinking, and a fade out, but I pretty quickly decided that I would rather leave it as is and just subtitle it, because there is such a specific artistic nuance to the original effect that I think is better off being preserved rather than recreated.

HARVEST wrote:an English overlay for the "Do you feel good?" screen,

But since it's on top of live footage, that means it must accompany the Japanese overlay. So what I'm picturing are twin overlays, one in English and one in Japanese, which strikes me as a bit odd.

It also means your English overlay is basically a fancy subtitle in this case, if I'm understanding this correctly. It's tempting to go in and create fancy effects for subtitles, because of what's possible, but I think this is usually the wrong approach to take. I think subtitles are at their best when they stay out of the way of the original work and simply but clearly provide discreet translation in its most direct form, letting the original work speak for itself with its unique visual design and effects.

HARVEST wrote:and a better "Neon Genesis Evangelion: Theatrical Version screen" screen with a slimmed down Times New Roman Bold font to better look like the English logo, since I think your version of the overlay (which just uses the same Helvetica font like the episode titles) feels a bit ugly/generic and ADV most likely would've added the English logo with Theatrical Version added on the bottom if ADV did get to release EoE.

While I think you're right about what ADV probably would have done, the reason I went with the simplistic design is because that appears to have been the creative decision with the original Japanese title. There doesn't seem to be anything specific to the design of it, other than that it's squashed. But even then, I'm not entirely sure how unique such a thing is with Japanese typography. I'd be interested if anyone can offer some insight on this.

HARVEST wrote:I also made an English overlay for Air.

This is another one I experimented with and quickly abandoned. Compared to the other episode titles in the series, the design of that title is visually unique, and so I think preserving it is better than recreating it.

HARVEST wrote:I made those edited subtitles to help you, since I feel you can incorporate my alterations for your next official update.

Thank you so much! Even if I disagree with most of your alterations, it's great to know someone is putting my work to use, and/or thinking about contributing/collaborating. If our visions turn out to be too different for a collaboration, you could always do your own release based on mine (just make sure to be clear about who did what wherever you have your credits, and provide a link to your sources when possible). Either way, I hope you continue to offer suggestions here, as I really appreciate your input. You've helped make my subtitles more accurate.
Neon Genesis Evangelion: Digitally Re-Created VHS Subtitles
The End of Evangelion: Fansub Amalgamation
Evangelion fan since 1996. Former Eva Mailing List member (late '90s).


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