Godzilla & Kaiju General!

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Postby Cybermat47 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:07 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:It was made very clear in the film's dialogue and entire narrative events leading up to the climax that Godzilla was never going to be defeated. That was never their goal, and, thusly, it was never achieved. Their goal at that point was to make sure Godzilla was no longer a target for U.S. nukes. Therefore, Godzilla was only paused. The film used various methods to make it explicitly clear that Godzilla can reawaken at anytime and wreak havoc all over again, forcing the U.S. to nuke Tokyo Japan... Shin Godzilla is no different, and the film makes it clear that the characters know of his eventual return.


And that “eventual” return might be closer than the characters think. Godzilla’s 5th form doesn’t appear until the final three shots of the film, presumably meaning that it’s still strong enough to evolve.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:14 pm

Well, the movie is about how the government with the people of Japan & their infrastructure defeat Godzilla. Instead of having him taken down by a Nuclear Deus Ex Machina or a bigger monster he's taken down by the people of Japan. It's no one thing that takes him down but a unified collaboration between Japan as a whole, which is how truly how countries function. The military (drones firing missiles), infrastructure (using the actual buildings as weights to bring him down), transportation (commuter trains as bombs is genius), scientists (building the compound to freeze him), industrial power (the companies & workers that create the thousands of gallons of the compound needed), blue-collar workers (the teams driving the trucks that deliver the toxin to Godzilla) and the government who brought them all together to enact the plan.

The ending is a VERY solid & succinct end-point for what the movie is really about - it's a disaster movie in direct response to Fukushima and is about how while governments can & do make mistakes BUT if the right people are involved in governing than ultimately society can come together to achieve the impossible - and while it may not fulfill the promise of Godzilla Vs. Monster #9 it's a far more successful film for being about something.

Shin Godzilla is 100% an artist statement from start to finish that blatantly makes its point by smuggling it into what is essentially a tired & never-ending franchise. It's intentionally a take it or leave it movie.

I'd say it's my third favorite Anno movie after EOE & 3.0.

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Postby silvermoonlight » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:27 pm

Okay so I just saw Godzilla monster planet and I agree with what a lot of you have said the character development was quite poor in this animation like it's real hard to get invested in character when there not built up enough hence when there dying you kind of don't care. I do agree also that this script has been padded out like I feel like it was much shorter originally but they put in way more filler.

SPOILER: Show
Now I will say that I found that concept fascinating though one thing really bugged me which was that Godzilla going on a huge killer rampage at the start in the flash backs and to me this felt kind off out of character because its so full on and normally does his thing eats some nuclear reactors then goes to sleep it off but I have a thought about this which is I think the Godzilla was being controlled similar to how an alien race controlled King Ghidorah in a few of the movies.

I also think the alien race in this movie did the same thing to Godzilla to make him destroy the planet on purpose while pretending to help humanity and I think these aliens are are trying to kill off the humans because when them and Godzilla are gone the planet will be there's as they used to be drifters so twenty years in space wouldn't bother them where as humans struggle with it as the movie stated.
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Postby Chuckman » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:39 pm

SPOILER: Show
Why not just kill them all in space, then?

I didn't get the whole thing with the aliens and also why some of the aliens are black guys.
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Postby Ray » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:56 pm

I've been watching some of the Emmerich Godzilla Tie-In Animated Series out of curiousity. It's a lot better than it has any right to be. The monster fights are creative (although fans of Modern more authentic Godzilla will probably be turned off by the use of the Emmerich zilla design) Godzilla in this show has a modum of intelligence and actually uses strategy in his fights, they really flesh out the the bond between the main character Nick and Godzilla, the majority of the supporting cast is pretty funny, and for a kids show it's pretty smart. It actually has a pretty interesting lore.

Furthermore, it's actually a quite fascinating time capsule of kids entertainment in the era right before 9/11. It's pretty surreal seeing grand central station getting destroyed in a monster fight with the world trade centers right in the background.
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Postby Chuckman » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:43 pm

The World Trade Center was referenced heavily in entertainment before the attacks.

You think seeing them in the background is weird? In the horribly animated mid-90's Spider-Man cartoon, there's an entire two part episode the directly references the first World Trade Center bombing.
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Postby Cybermat47 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:23 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:
SPOILER: Show
I didn't get the whole thing with the aliens and also why some of the aliens are black guys.


It’s a callback to the Shōwa era and Final Wars, and also works as a way to explain how Humanity can escape into space in 2040 and has access to such advanced technology.

And what’s the issue with the Bilusaludo being black? All the other Humanoid alien species in Godzilla films have been 100% Asian, so I don’t see the issue with an alien race comprised entirely of people with dark skin.
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Postby Chuckman » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:34 pm

It would be a little less weird if all the survivors weren't Japanese. I guess. Honestly I was doing a lot of fast forwarding and playing with my phone.
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Postby Ray » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:55 pm

This guy sums up a lot of my opinions on both Shin Godzilla and 2014 Godzilla.

Thoughts Chuckman?

WHY GODZILLA 2014 IS BETTER THAN SHIN GODZILLA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udgfHtx2MJk
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Postby Cybermat47 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:28 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:It would be a little less weird if all the survivors weren't Japanese. I guess. Honestly I was doing a lot of fast forwarding and playing with my phone.


As I said before, not all the survivors were Japanese. There were black people, and Europeans like Leland, Martin, and Bindewald. It’s just that the normal anime style isn’t suited to showing the differences between whites and Asians. For example, in NGE, the white American naval personnel look the same as the Japanese people we see.
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Postby Cybermat47 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:36 am

View Original PostRay wrote:This guy sums up a lot of my opinions on both Shin Godzilla and 2014 Godzilla.

Thoughts Chuckman?

WHY GODZILLA 2014 IS BETTER THAN SHIN GODZILLA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udgfHtx2MJk


That video is the butt of the Godzilla fandom’s jokes. It cherrypicks details and the creator admitted to making it solely for the views. He’s so thirsty for views that he even made a video saying that That’s A Lot Of Fish (1998) is better than Shin.

Don’t get me wrong, though. 2014 definitely did a lot of things better than Shin, but the films should be compared by someone who wants to actually fairly compare them, rather than someone who’s going to milk a controversial opinion (one that they may not even agree with) for views.
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Postby Cybermat47 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:50 am

Also... I hope I haven’t been coming across as rude to anyone.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:52 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Why not just kill them all in space, then?


Because if you outright try to kill a race you might be dealing with an uprising which you could loose but if you let them slowly kill themselves though depression, violence and disease you get no blood on your hands. Also in the film no one is sure if the elderly ship blew up on purpose and I think them killing the elderly is very telling as they don't want anyone in the older age groups to influence the younger groups or be role models for any form of uprising.
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cybermat47 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:01 am

View Original Postsilvermoonlight wrote:
SPOILER: Show
Now I will say that I found that concept fascinating though one thing really bugged me which was that Godzilla going on a huge killer rampage at the start in the flash backs and to me this felt kind off out of character because its so full on and normally does his thing eats some nuclear reactors then goes to sleep it off but I have a thought about this which is I think the Godzilla was being controlled similar to how an alien race controlled King Ghidorah in a few of the movies.

I also think the alien race in this movie did the same thing to Godzilla to make him destroy the planet on purpose while pretending to help humanity and I think these aliens are are trying to kill off the humans because when them and Godzilla are gone the planet will be there's as they used to be drifters so twenty years in space wouldn't bother them where as humans struggle with it as the movie stated.


I wouldn’t say that it’s out of character for him, as this is the first time we’ve seen this particular incarnation of Godzilla.

I think that Godzilla Earth (the official name for this Godzilla) is desperate to stop Humanity from being a threat to the Earth, and is willing to use any means neccessary. Humanity isn’t particularly good for the planet in real life, and in the flashback, it’s shwon that they created Hedorah - who, in the Shōwa series, was an unkillable monster that fed on and produced pollution, instantly turning people into piles of bones with it’s smog. If Godzilla Earth wants to protect the environment, sending Humanity back to the stone age is a good place to start.

But I think you’re on to something with your suspicions about the aliens. They also have a lot to gain if Humanity is wiped out, and given that all three species are facing extinction, a slow approach does make sense. Less risk of an unwinnable war.

I’m suspicious of Metphies in particular. At the end, it’s almost as though he’s worshipping Godzilla. He talks about him as though he’s a great god filled with righteous anger (which he arguably is), not as a threat to his entire species who’s about to kill the people who placed their trust in him. Did he have his own motives in helping Haruo lead a return to Earth?

Also... fun fact, in the prequel novel Monster Apocalypse, guess who appears in France?

[spoiler=“Yes, they really did bring him back.”]Image[/spoiler]
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:24 am

View Original PostRay wrote:I feel this movie should have leaned more into parody or dark comedy. Because the movie is strongest towards the start when it's spoofing the government bungling that led to the Fukushima Disaster, and using Shocking Imagery from the 2011 Tsunami. I found that pretty compelling and actually laughed about twice because I thought that was pretty clever.

Believe it or not, Shin Godzilla did all of those things you wished it did. The problem is that satirical comedy is the most difficult to translate across cultural boarders. Did you know that one of the funniest scenes in the whole film was when the PM said "Prepare my suit," and then walked out dressed as a rescue worker? If that didn't strike you as funny, then it was because you were too focused on our own American political comedy of Trump v Hilary to realize the political hilarity ensuing in Japan over the Japanese PM dressing as a rescue worker in real life to reassure the Japanese people that "everything possible was being done to protect their safety." It's funny, but only if you're aware of the subject the film was satirical of in order to "get the reference." Watching these Godzilla movies can often make the foreign viewers feel like Captain America in the Marvel movies, where he doesn't get any of the references or jokes being made until someone mentions "flying monkeys."

Godzilla movies have always been about Japanese politics and social structures. Shin Godzilla is no different. (Fun Fact: Did you know that Japanese audiences cheered in 1954 when Godzilla toppled over the Japanese Parliament building in the original film? Do you even know which building that was without a quick Google search? If not, then it's impossible for you to have an informed opinion about Godzilla and politics and how it can be used to objectively determine the quality of films in the said franchise.) Anno simply took the government debriefing scene from the 1954 film, and turned that into a modern day satirical movie reacting to the Fukushima disaster. The main issue is that many Americans don't know enough about the events unfolding in the Fukushima disasters in order to get any of the references being made. But, American audiences can certainly jive with the post 9/11 fears expressed in the 2014 Godzilla movie. So regardless of how well a Godzilla movie does what it set out to do, people with certain cultural biases are always going to lean towards the film that references the cultural events with which they're most familiar. In your case, that would be the post 9/11 fears expressed in Godzilla 2014, and that's not a problem at all.

In short, we have our Godzilla movie that has cultural references that we can understand, the Japanese have their own Godzilla movie that has cultural references that they can understand, and no movie is better or poorer for it.

As for character development goes, I'm genuinely shocked that people outside of Japan didn't find Mikako Ichikawa's performance breathtakingly powerful. She is the paragon upon which the entire cast of characters pivots into having healthier discussions with one another and actually moving forward to solving the mystery behind Godzilla's very being. Like, that shouldn't be a thing that is lost across cultural boarders. Those aspects of the film were just universally good storytelling. But, I guess because she didn't have an instantly recognizable "My mom and dad died in a fire" tragic backstory, so I guess it doesn't count as character development to today's "modern" and "sophisticated" audiences.
Last edited by FreakyFilmFan4ever on Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby Cybermat47 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:34 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:As for character development goes, I'm genuinely shocked that people outside of Japan didn't find Mikako Ichikawa's performance breathtakingly powerful. She is the paragon upon which the entire cast of characters pivots into having healthier discussions with one another and actually moving forward to solving the mystery behind Godzilla's very being. Like, that shouldn't be a thing that is lost across cultural boarders. Those aspects of the film were just universally good. But, I guess because she didn't have an instantly recognizable "My mom and dad died" tragic backstory, I guess it doesn't count as character development to today's "modern" and "sophisticated" audiences.


I think that she was my favourite character of the whole movie. At first, you think that she’s just purely cold and professional, but her smile at the very end changes your perception of her. You realise that the whole time, she was scared s**tless, but hiding it from the others and, presumably, herself. When I’m anxious or worried, I don’t let anyone know about it, because I think that if I hide it from them, then I don’t have to worry about it either. I might just be projecting, but I think she was doing the same.

And I agree with your point about “prepare my uniform”. When you hear the full context behind that, it’s hilarious.
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Postby silvermoonlight » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:30 am

View Original PostCybermat47 wrote:
Also... fun fact, in the prequel novel Monster Apocalypse, guess who appears in France?

[spoiler=“Yes, they really did bring him back.”]Image[/spoiler]


Really they brought back the tuna head....

Get rid off him already.  SPOILER: Show
Image
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Postby Chuckman » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:54 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:This guy sums up a lot of my opinions on both Shin Godzilla and 2014 Godzilla.

Thoughts Chuckman?

WHY GODZILLA 2014 IS BETTER THAN SHIN GODZILLA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udgfHtx2MJk


I don't think they can really be compared like this. 2014 is a pretty straightforward movie. Shin is a movie made by an auteur director given a lot of freedom to take a franchise with a ridiculous number of film entries and reboots (come to think of it, don't we rag on the sequelitis and rebootism of American cinema all the time? Hasn't Godzilla had something like 5 reboots and origins and 20 some films?) and do something interesting and original with it.

They have the same fictional monster but they're about totally different things.

As to that video... frankly it's pretty facile. It has all of the problems that crop up when nerds pick up a bunch of basic terms of screenwriting and film criticism and think they know what they're talking about. I mean, the guy is saying there are no stakes in Shin because there's no monster fight and that's just absurd. I ended up skipping bits of the video because his opinion on some aspects of the two films, such as the scores, are totally inane.
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Postby VUX » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:57 pm

I wish tha the Godzilla vs Evangelion film wasn't a prank, I wonder what it would be like?
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Postby Cybermat47 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:44 am

View Original PostVUX wrote:I wish tha the Godzilla vs Evangelion film wasn't a prank, I wonder what it would be like?


It wasn’t a prank, but it’s not a film, either. It’s a merchandising line that was started to fund Shin Godzilla after they spent most of their $15M USD budget on a giant animatronic Godzilla that didn’t perform to Shinji Higuchi’s satisfaction.
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