Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby LightDragonman » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:44 am

I take offense to that jab at the Marvel movies. Especially since I find several of them quite memorable.

On your note of Eva being great because of where it comes from, while I do agree that it is one of the rare shows that managed to tap even the dimmest basement dwelling otaku (no offense to otaku out there) and make them think about their lives, if only for a moment, I'm not quite sure if that manages to redeem all the flaws it has as a story.

And while I could accept it in the original because Anno was truly going through a depression at the time, if working on Rebuild is just gonna put him in yet another one, to the point that he has to put the finale off to the side, then I feel that he needs to rethink his strategy. Heck, some of my favorite moments from 2.22 came about from other people, not just him. Does that make me shallow for not loving everything Anno pours into the films?

Basically, I feel that the approach taken for the original series doesn't really work for Rebuild if all that happens to Anno is yet another depression, as is the case with 3.33 (maybe he shouldn't have made it so mean-sprited). Let others come in and help him, as collaboration is the key when it comes to film making. As appealing as the auteur theory is, everyone has their limits.

Heck, if rumors are true that he didn't really have a plan for the fourth film, and has lost interest in doing it, then having other people pitch in would help immensely.
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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:07 am

^The Rebuilds have been a collaborative effort all along, but as Anno says, it's a work that's very personal to him, and it takes a lot out of him because he pours so much into it. I don't doubt that Tsurumaki and co could make an Eva movie that I as fan would find satisfying even without Anno there, but Eva is his baby and it seems like he wants to see it through to the end.

He said he didn't know if he could make the fourth one, not that he didn't have a plan for it, nor did he say that it's not being worked on at all, just that he has kept the fans waiting and feels like he can come back now. He himself said he had a "provisional" script done back in 2013, which shows that a direction and at least some pre-planning were in place. What that means for the movie now, I don't know. I'm hopeful that evamonkey's contacts were right and they have been working in Anno's absence, but maybe they haven't. Who knows?

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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby hui43210 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:37 am

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:I take offense to that jab at the Marvel movies. Especially since I find several of them quite memorable.


Would you take in offense in the fact that I can't tell difference between a good Marvel movie and a bad one? Srsly, I have no idea what made Spiderman 1&2 so much better than 3 for example, I thought they were all fine, but mostly the same. I also couldn't tell what made the avengers so much better than your average Michal Bay explosion fest, they both seemed just as shitty.
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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby Xxx_Generic Name_Xxx » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:14 am

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:I take offense to that jab at the Marvel movies. Especially since I find several of them quite memorable.

I think that all of the marvel movies aren't better than a Michael Bay movie.
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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby Jinroh » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:52 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:I don't find the Rebuild films to be poorly planned.

3 movies (more than half of the content they feature being a retelling) in 9 years is not poorly planned?

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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby Ray » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:06 am

It takes Pixar or Dreamworks between Three to Five Years to make one movie, so it doesn't bug me that much.

My issue is that, if they're only beginning production now, then we'll have to wait another three years before we even get a trailer for Final.

and yes, I'm still calling it Final. 3.0+1.0 is too silly a title.
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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby sephirotic » Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:43 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:I'm kinda done arguing the merits of the Rebuild as films. As a filmmaker from a personal standpoint I find Anno's command on the artistry & nuances of film making is far superior to what he did in the original (besides End of Evangelion which is his masterpiece). Neon Genesis Evangelion is a fantastic work of art but it's sloppy & as a narrative leaves much to be desired. If people actually watched NGE from a narrative standpoint they would see it's pretty weak - plot elements that are introduced are never built on, the whole series completely waffles away any real sense of narrative in the third act to more directly attack the weaknesses of the characters themselves (kinda like a certain film in a certain series) before narrative is almost completely thrown away for an 80 minute feature film finale that is almost nothing more than pure emotion & visual expression. NGE is not a great example of a plot driven tale. But, it works as art because it came from a pure place within the author and it wonderfully connected to the audience on an instinctual level.
Rebuild is not doing that. Rebuild could never do that. NGE was lighting in a bottle. You can't catch lighting in a bottle twice. Rebuild is instead a filmmaker returning to his greatest work from a more mature & steady point in his life & approaching the same emotions from a different angle. It's no longer the existential "Life is awful & I'm a failure & everything's against me" emotional purge that Anno put out when he was a young artist. It is a man in the middle of his life accepting of who he is & understanding that "Life isn't awful & I'm not a failure & the world is not really against me but instead the flaws of who I am as an individual is what truly hurts me but is also what truly makes me who I am."

I actually agree with a a lot of you have just wrote there. From a narrative and script point of view, NGE was pretty inconsistent, it's not an exceptionally well scripted and directed show specially for the first 2/3 of it. And even when reaching the second climax (episode 24) it was kinda of a rushed build up. The time Shinji had to meet and build up his relationship with Kaworu always felt rushed to me, and Anno addressing that on 3.33 was actually one of the few things that made sense to me in that movie.
I find Rebuild - so far - to be a richer work. Does it have flaws? Yes. But it's got a lot more going on as a film series then the usual piss poor things people attack it - usually the same pedantic bullshit like "It's not as good as the original" or "It doesn't have enough of my favorite character" or "Who is this Mari girl".
And I love the write off that the Rebuild films will be a mess because NGE is a mess. From a plot driven narrative standpoint End of Evangelion wraps up nothing that came before it. But it works. Evangelion as an expression of one artists emotions is a complete mess but it's that mess that makes it so magical. You want clockwork storytelling go watch a Marvel movie. They work for the two hours they're on & then fade from memory until the marketing machine clicks on again & tells you to go see another movie.


I actually don't have much problem with 1.11 and 2.22, despite being mostly recycled. I find the direction and pacing pretty good and actually better for the first 14 episodes than the original series. IS ACTUALLY MORE FUN TO WATCH since I don't have an irrational "hate" of the rebuild. I kinda enjoy rewatching it from time to time. My biggest issue was particularly mostly with the 3.33. However, I don't agree that rebuild is a "richer" work at all. Despite all that, at least in my personal view, which differs from yours, Evangelion still is mostly about the character developments (at least for me). Having a Japanese animation taking a deep dive into constructing the psyche of their characters driving their actions down to a Freudian model of the unconscious, instead of just creating soulless static puppets; archetype-characters like most anime do, was actually what made Eva special. Like I said: What I find the most attractive about Eva is the psychoanalytical aspects. If you take the analysis out, the result becomes much more shallow and lifeless. And Rebuild while improving the direction and flow of the series, ruined precisely the core of what I found precious about Eva. 1.11 and 2.22 overlapped mostly with the lower quality build up of the series that was the first 14 episodes, so I was fine with it being just some better animated, better directed and more action-oriented movie than anything. Then came 3.33.

Also, I strongly disagree with the "We want a "clockwork storytelling" for eva". Hollywoods scripting is indeed soulless and fabricated. I definitely don't want Evangelion to have a standard typical hero-action-movie hollywoodian format. And what is the mindfucks from episodes 16, 20 and 22 precisely if not a move away from standard directing and storytelling?

Anywho, I don't get people who engage in discussions just to be a Debbie Downer. Seems like a waste of a perfectly good life. So you don't like Rebuild. That's fair. You may find it a mess. That's also fair. Doesn't mean your words mean anything to anyone but yourself. I haven't found the films to be a mess so far & unless Anno really drops the ball I doubt Final is going to be a mess for me either. So yeah, I won't write your words. But if you ever want to really partake in a conversation instead of just ponderously stating your fact as opinion I'll happily join you.


And you know what I don't get? People that don't accept criticism and dismiss the other part as being gratuitous depreciative just because the opinion attacks something that is dear to you, almost as it was attacking directly your own ego. I was stating an OPINION, I never had the arrogance to feel my opinion is the only right or a fact. If that is what my tone felt like, I'm sorry, that wasn't my intention. You stated your opinion and that was fine, but the last part discrediting my vision was completely dispensable. I would have happily "partake" a conversation but it seems it was not me that wasn't willing for it.

By the way I may not have been clear enough, but only 3.33 was really a mess to me, mostly because of the timeskip, lack of deeper character development and a very poor final act: That battle with wunder and Kaworu sacrificing himself meaninglessly instead of being killed by Shinji in an oedipian way, was just atrocious. I couldn't possibly disagree more with the false equivalency: "EoE didn't wrap nothing and still was a mess and masterpiece. Thus, 3.33 being a mess is good".
Last edited by sephirotic on Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:10 pm

View Original Postsephirotic wrote:Rebuild definitely isn't a Fiasco for a commercial point of view.

From a commercial point of view, the 4th film would have been out years ago with the threat from a higher power in the studio to replace Anno if he didn't deliver the movie by a certain date that was predetermined long before the script was even written, with room enough in the narrative for a 5th, 6th, and 7th film, or until the IP stops making money.

Rebuild clearly isn't any of those commercial things. Yes, the NTE films are certainly have merchandise tie-ins and contracts, but the films themselves are not being produced or creatively approached as merchandise. They are being produced primarily as artistic endeavors, ones that Anno could apperently decide whether or not he wants to finish depending on how he feels that year, as proven by Anno's above statements.
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Postby sephirotic » Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:23 pm

^
I meant to say that the movies actually sold a lot and had a large number of watchers and buyers for the BD, regardless if they were a merchandise produced solely for profit or not.
Many people measure the success of an Anime title by its ranking in sales, even if that is (mostly) irrelevant for the Rebuild as it is being funded by Khara (virtually Anno Himself).
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Postby TheFriskyIan » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:43 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:3 movies (more than half of the content they feature being a retelling) in 9 years is not poorly planned?

Of course not, I think people have let shit like Marvel and Pixar cloud their view on production because they churn out one-two movies a year.
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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:54 am

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:Of course not, I think people have let shit like Marvel and Pixar cloud their view on production because they churn out one-two movies a year.

Well, Marvel and Pixar are both owned by Disney, and they ensure overlapping production crews to keep these movies turning out at that pace. It still takes Pixar close to 5 years to complete a movie from beginning to end, they just have 5 different teams working on their own respective projects until they get done.

Khara doesn't have that luxury. In fact, no animation studio in Japan has a release rate as fast as Pixar. (Heck, even DreamWorks PDI has trouble with annual releases.) In many cases in Japan you have one crew working on one project at a time. And Khara's director took a job at Toho for a little while. That's just how the industry works in that country
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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:38 am

The Rebuilds are coming along at a fine pace. Fans are always hyperbolic when it comes to waiting. It goes with the entitlement of being a fan. I remember the two times Christopher Nolan said he was going to make an original film between each entry of his Batman trilogy the fans collectively lost their shit & claimed the man was forever done with the character.

The wait just hurts because Khara doesn't operate the way nerds are accustomed to how genre films work here in the States where a movie has a release date set before it even has a cast. The wait for a movie seems less agonizing when you have a rough date on a calendar to look forward towards. Indiana Jones 5 might just have the inklings of a script right now but you can already jot it down on your calendar for July 19, 2019. That's just three short years away & not a Mystery like the new Eva which could come out next year or not for a couple more years. The other reason the wait hurts so much is because the biggest mistake the movies made was attaching those damn post-credits teasers. It tells the viewer to expect the continuation soon & because this isn't TV or Theatrical TV (Marvel movies) where the next movie in the series is already in post-production.

For animated features the Rebuilds are moving along at a perfectly fine pace. If anything the releases of 1.0 & 2.0 seemed accelerated.

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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby A.T. Fish » Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:56 am

View Original Postsephirotic wrote:I Like I said: What I find the most attractive about Eva is the psychoanalytical aspects. If you take the analysis out, the result becomes much more shallow and lifeless. And Rebuild while improving the direction and flow of the series, ruined precisely the core of what I found precious about Eva.


The main point of all the psychological probing in Eva is to dissect Shinji's depression and deliver a positive message of self-acceptance, all of that seems to be intact in Rebuild at this point. The show has more time to explore other charaters' issues but I guess with the reduced amount of time in the movies they chose to focus more on Shinji, which makes perfect sense since he is the protagonist. The movies do a fine job exploring Shinji's psychological hurdles without having to resort to lengthy and cryptic exposition scenes like the train sequences or the series' final episodes. Maybe Anno feels that the message is clear enough without all the exposition, or maybe he doesn't think its necessary to go through all of that again since fans of Eva already have a good grasp on Shinji's character. Regardless, 3.33 did a great job of showing Shinji's descent while hinting at the idea that he needs to break out of his shell and accept himself.

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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby mastafishere » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:26 pm

View Original PostSicarius VI wrote:To go back to the OP, if you had looked at the "Khara specifically hiring animators for the next Evangelion work" thread or the "Anno is writing and directing a Godzilla movie" thread, you would've clearly seen this has already been talked about in great length.


I don't understand your meaning. The article has interesting new talking points. For one, Anno apologizing for the delay of the fourth film is huge. It's interesting how he feels guilty for keeping his fans waiting, especially since his psychological state has been a major topic of conversation relating to Evangelion since the beginning.

Another thing we learned is that Anno almost quit and didn't want to direct the fourth movie. It's also fascinating to me that Godzilla helped him "recharge his batteries" so to speak.

I've looked through those threads a bunch of times before, but I fail to see how I could have "clearly seen this has already been talked about in great length."

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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby Sicarius VI » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:33 pm

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:45 am


Both those threads main focus are on other events though. This specific instance was worthy of its own thread.
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Postby mammaluser » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:12 pm

I actually prefer to wait and watch a movie with a less depressed anno than to watch a film that makes no absolute sense like 3.33 (not actually saying that i didn't like 3.33, but you got the idea) and end up with a more depressed anno about to kill himself.
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Postby mastafishere » Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:44 pm



You are certainly overstating it. Those threads have the link to the story, but hardly discuss it "at great length."

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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby fadadio » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:46 am

I am glad he took a break to "recharge"

I would hate for him to have forced himself to make the 4th and final film immediately and have it be a steaming turd lacking inspiration.
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Re: Anno apologizes for 4th film delay

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:01 am

View Original Postsephirotic wrote:Even with the disappointment that Rebuild was, by not innovating or improving the original series and removing all the psychoanalytical and mindfucks parts behind, my view of the original series nas never been shaken.


However, I'm honestly intrigued by Anno claiming "Eva is his soul" after producing 3.33.
I don't know how to interpretate this. Did he REALLY put all his soul into making a half ass remake action-focused?



I think Anno knows if he put his soul into it or not.
I also think it's fairly obvious the movie is about the fear of change and time progressing, personal demons of his.

And people seriously need to stop bashing Rebuild like that. If you din't like it, K. But a half-assed remake? lol

How is that film half-assed (best Rebuild and some of the best quality Evangelion has ever given us), how is it a remake (is about new ideas), amd since when does a film having lots of action mean there can't be complex and thought provoking content in this rest of the movie or (gasp!) in the action scenes themselves(!)

Rebuild is also psychoanalytal, it just presents the characters in a different way, because this is not NGE, a 26 episode show, but Rebuild, a four feature film saga.
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