Universal Monsters shared universe films

A subforum for discussions about Film, TV, and Videos.

Moderators: New Moderators, Board Staff

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:37 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:I'm less excited about this now that Untold won't be part of it. I really liked that movie.


Wait, what? Yeah, Untold was much better than I expected it to be and the only reason I was at all onboard. If that's not the case anymore, fuck it.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

FreakyFilmFan4ever
(In)Sufficient Director
(In)Sufficient Director
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 7504
Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Location: Playing amongst the stars
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:54 am

Untold is a fairly basic looking film with sub-par "stand-in-one-spot-and-talk-to-each-other" blocking until the main character quickly makes a Vampire Army at the the movie's climax. Then it just becomes awesome. So yeah, I'm kind of sad to see it leave the canon as well.

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8213
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:48 pm

They need a modern Dracula anyway, maybe they'll just soft retcon and not really acknowledge it, sort ofnthe way Hulk fits into MCU.

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:48 pm

My two cents re: Dracula Untold:

  • The actual vampire stuff was great, even if weaponized bats are dumb as hell.
  • Charles Dance was superb.
  • Luke Evans was far better than expected, and his basic character arc was reasonably compelling.
  • The vampires at the end were great (particularly that one lady, and you know who I mean), even if their rationale for doing what they did was pretty thin.
  • Sarah Gadon was unspeakably vile, and did her level best to wreck the film -- the main reason any Dracula flick going forward could meaningfully build on what we got here is because she's dead, dead, dead (and Vlad didn't think to make her a vampire for some reason -- thank Heaven for small favors!).
  • Art Parkinson: I would need to speak R'lyehian to adequately convey how awful he was, and how much I detested his presence in the film. He and Gadon made a passable popcorn flick nails-on-chalkboard awful, and he is the poster child for why people hate child actors. If there is any justice in the world every camera in existence will spontaneously shatter rather than record even one instant of his nauseatingly awful presence.

So yeah, not sure why this is being ignored. In fact, I see no reason why it has to be ignored, as I can't see the mummy flick invalidating it or anything (and hey, they both have weaponized bats, so it's not like they don't already have plenty in common!). Far as I'm concerned it'll be part of the setting until we get something that specifically contradicts it.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 6276
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:54 pm

^ it's being ignored because it didn't make that bling at the box office. As we all know in Hollywood money and profits are the bar by which everything else is measured. There is little if any room for genuine creativity in Hollywood Blockbusters anymore.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8213
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:18 pm

I'd love it if they "ignored" it Army of Darkness style and just reshot whatever they needed from the plot of Untold with a new cast.

They need a really solid modern day Mina Harker to make it work.

Really if they bring back Evans and Dance for a modern setting retelling of Dracula I'd be cool with that.

I liked the movie but I didn't adore it. I think your assessment of it was pretty much spot on too and the bats were ludicrous. They could have done much, much more with vampire lore to give him superpowers beyond "angry bats".

movieartman
Lilin
Lilin
Age: 26
Posts: 1862
Joined: Feb 24, 2014
Gender: Male

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby movieartman » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:39 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:and the bats were ludicrous.

I think him turning into a stream of bats and using it to basically teleport around the battlefield was great but the controlling gigantic swarms of them at a distance was too over the top and removed any personal element from the battle.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:My two cents re: Dracula Untold:
The actual vampire stuff was great, even if weaponized bats are dumb as hell.
Charles Dance was superb.
Luke Evans was far better than expected, and his basic character arc was reasonably compelling.
The vampires at the end were great (particularly that one lady, and you know who I mean), even if their rationale for doing what they did was pretty thin.

Agreed on all this, Evans is my favorite Dracula besides maybe Christopher Lee (RIP)

Sarah Gadon was unspeakably vile

I actually liked her a lot. I felt her and Evans had a really good groove of chemistry down. Was indifferent to the kid.

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8213
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:57 pm

There's so much precedent for vampires doing crazy shit they didn't even touched.

He could have used mind control, turned into mist, summoned wolves, and so on.

movieartman
Lilin
Lilin
Age: 26
Posts: 1862
Joined: Feb 24, 2014
Gender: Male

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby movieartman » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:09 pm

The Mummy trailer 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzorZUuZqEI
Horror aspects are pleasingly more present this trailer. ^_^

That being said I see the same issue Untold had which will cause problems in a shared universe, when the monsters are this overpowered were they can create skyscraper destroying sandstorms or army slaughtering flocks of bats, how are they gonna really fight each other.

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:32 pm

Tom Cruise flick, so doomed from the start.

Also, lost points for using Paint it Black when it almost certainly won't be in the film.

Overall, boo.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

Gendo'sPapa
First Ancestor
First Ancestor
User avatar
Posts: 4347
Joined: Oct 24, 2006
Location: At the Movies
Gender: Male

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:07 pm

The Mummy 2017 "could" be a charming surprise hit with the right low expectations. Big emphasis on the could part. It'll be interesting to see how much of the film is going to be comprised of Second Unit that was essentially Tom Cruise's direction because I promise those guys handled the action scenes by themselves. As a director while Alex Kurtzman wrote a bunch of expensive garbage - he's the "better half" of the writing team behind such classics as The Amazing Spider-Man 2, Star Trek Into Darkness, Cowboys & Aliens* - he's yet another filmmaker who basically made the jump from small indie drama no one saw to tentpole release.

Feels too much like Mummy: Impossible but I guess it can hold me over with a silly Tom Cruise stunt or two until the real show when Mission: Impossible 6 comes out next year.

Trailer REALLY overdid it with the same few beats from Paint it Black though.

*Note, Kurtzman no longer writes with Truther Roberto Orci so we won't have to deal with any 9/11 was an Inside Job parallels here.... though I do get the feeling we'll find out the Mummy likes Tom Cruise because he has MAGIC BLOOD so that old chestnut from The Amazing Spider-man 2 & Star Trek Into Darkness may come back.

silvermoonlight
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Posts: 668
Joined: Jun 19, 2016
Location: UK
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby silvermoonlight » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:37 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Tom Cruise flick, so doomed from the start.

Also, lost points for using Paint it Black when it almost certainly won't be in the film.

Overall, boo.


Sadly I have to agree with this what made the campy, funny 1999 version and it's 2000 sequel work in my view was that it was about a team of very different people with different skill sets all working together to beat the odds which are really heavily stacked against them and there's next to no sexism accept for a few inserts by a character who gets taken out very fast in the first film and in both films your rooting for the characters to succeed.

Cruise films though almost always centre around him always getting the girl and rescuing her and him always fixing everything, examples like this are films like the Mission Impossible series and Oblivion. To me this totally undermines the franchise because its not one of these power of one deals and him waking up in a body bag stinks of "I've been given some magic curse by mistake where I can't die so I can take out the evil villain...."
Last edited by silvermoonlight on Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Anywhere can be paradise as long as you have the will to live. After all, you are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy.

My Eva fanfiction ff.net Fading In To The Stolen Light For download version please go to AO3

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8213
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:41 pm

Tom Cruise is a really good actor who busts his ass and throws himself into every single role. The problem with Oblivion or whatever isn't him.

This trailer is just terrible, though. I don't understand why they used the opening guitar riff to Paint it Black like 3 different times for no real reason or what that song has to do with mummies or why it's in a trailer that has no other music and doesn't include or relate to the lyrics. It's like they mean to put in a BWOOMMMM effect a few times and some intern fucked up and inserted the wrong file and it's too late to fix it.

Also it's pretty clear that
SPOILER: Show
Cruise's character is going to become a mummy somehow so he can be the shared universe mummy. Like he'll have mummy powers, but won't be Egyptian or wear mummy wraps or really be a mummy, which is pretty weird.

I kind of lost hope when I read that Dracula Untold won't be part of the multi-film continuity. I really liked that film and I was eager to see some kind of modern retelling of Dracula with Charles Dance playing a villain and a superheroic comic-booky Dracula, but alas it was not to be.

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:54 am

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Tom Cruise is a really good actor who busts his ass and throws himself into every single role.


Yes, but he's also a narcissistic scientology twit who invariably makes every film he's in about him, him, him. When was the last time you saw him in a film and saw the character he was playing rather than Tom Cruise? I can't remember, personally, but it was sometime last millennium.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

movieartman
Lilin
Lilin
Age: 26
Posts: 1862
Joined: Feb 24, 2014
Gender: Male

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby movieartman » Mon May 01, 2017 9:11 pm

BTS feature with a good amount more footage.
They really seem to be wanting to flesh out our female mummy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9qrmype0nI

Chuckman
Chuckman
Chuckman
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 8213
Joined: Nov 11, 2011
Location: Chuckman

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chuckman » Mon May 01, 2017 10:09 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Yes, but he's also a narcissistic scientology twit who invariably makes every film he's in about him, him, him. When was the last time you saw him in a film and saw the character he was playing rather than Tom Cruise? I can't remember, personally, but it was sometime last millennium.


Eat Pray Die on Groundhog Day.

I fucking love that movie. He's suroai good in the Jack Reacher movies too.

I can't really think of a movie I've seen that he was in that I didn't really enjoy. He is a total weirdo and all but I think Scientology has blackmail on him. They do that.

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 6276
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Mon May 01, 2017 10:28 pm

I believe that this cinematic monster universe is going to be like the Terminator Cinematic Universe. it's going to be a series of false starts and soft reboots until eventually they just say screw it and decide to put their money into rebooting Hellboy or some other similar property in their vault.

You really want to make a Cinematic Universe with the universal monsters here's how to do it.

1) don't puss out. make it R Rated so we can have blood and gore and dark themes like a modern day horror/ monster movie should have.

2) keep the budget relatively small and don't spend so much money on set-pieces. The best kind of horror movies thrive on subtlety, and that's something you can't get from a big-budget Blockbuster because you have to put all the money on the screen. Don't make the movies about battling an army or destroying a city. Keep them set in small locations (at least for the first movies).

Dracula should be a haunted house movie with a sexual predator overtone, the mummy should be set in Tomb in Egypt, Wolfman and Frankenstein should be set in the countryside or Woods, Creature from the Black Lagoon should be set in either a swamp or an ocean, Jekyll and Hyde the Victorian London setting is an absolute must.

3) don't make the monsters Heroes.

Let me repeat that. DO NOT MAKE THE MONSTERS HEROES.

Dracula is a villain, a homicidal maniac who hated his enemies so much he sold his soul to the devil just to spite them and now pays for that by having to drink the blood of the living. The Mummy/Imhotep is a man from a barbaric time with barbaric values who wants to resurrect his dead love. Frankensteins monster is a Walking Corpse unable to communicate with the rest of the world and takes his frustration with it out on innocent victims.

The audience has some expectations of these characters because of their literary/film sources if you don't at least try to respect that you're just going to get backlash ( do I need to mention the various arguments I've had with people about the DC movies?)

If you want a single character to make a hero or at least make somewhat sympathetic do it with the Wolfman or Jekyll and Hyde. But make the core of the story about them wrestling with their darker halves and their fear of how it may kill those they care about.

4) give us a decent supporting human cast.

Every horror movie needs some meat for the grinder. You can't have a Friday the 13th, or Nightmare on Elm Street movie without some victims for Jason and Freddy to kill. Give us a cast of characters in each movie deal with each monster and the survivors from each respective movie come together to fight or share Intel on each respective monster.
Last edited by Ray on Tue May 02, 2017 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Reichu
Space-Time Teratoma
Space-Time Teratoma
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 22648
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: 高地園、新槍ノ島
Gender: Female

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Tue May 02, 2017 5:13 pm

View Original PostRay wrote:If you want a single character to make a hero or at least make somewhat sympathetic do it with the Wolfman or Jekyll and Hyde.

Ever read Frankenstein? The monster is super moe. Hard not to have the feels for the poor guy.
Avatar: "That's right. I'm a gay robot." (David 8 image by Junseo)
Crying Man
(Or, How Dr. Katsuragi Found God): Read at AO3 & Discuss Here.
Status: First Draft. Chapter 10: Idle Hands released 5/24/2017.

"Fighting idiocy is like fighting a hydra. Cut off one head, two more grow back and need to tell you their uninformed opinion." - PeeJee, Something*Positive

Ray
Elder God
Elder God
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 6276
Joined: Feb 10, 2014
Location: USA
Gender: Male

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ray » Tue May 02, 2017 5:35 pm

The original literary Frankenstein sure. I'm referring to the general pop culture conception of Frankenstein's monster from the Universal horror movies everyone is familiar with from their childhoods.

In the book The Monster's super articulate, teaches himself how to read, and is angry at Frankenstein for creating him, and is super sympathetic. Up until he kills the woman Victor Frankenstein loves.

In the movies not so much, in the movies Frankenstein is mute can barely grunt two meaningful words into a coherent sentence, barely understands what's going on, and always seems to be in constant pain when he makes even the slightest of movement.
I’ll escape now from this world, from the world of Jean Valjean, Jean Valjean is nothing now! Another story must begin!
Avatar: "There's a Starman, waiting in the sky. He'd like to come and meet me, but he thinks he'd blow my mind."
Phew, I’m not tense anymore… now I’m just miserable.
People say "be yourself" but that's bad advice, if we were all to "be ourselves" many of us would stop wearing clothes. -Chuckman

Bagheera
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 18626
Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Re: Universal Monsters shared universe films

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Bagheera » Tue May 02, 2017 6:22 pm

Gotta admit, Ray, I took a look at your list and thought: "Universal, read this list carefully and then do the complete opposite."

In order:

1. Going for an R rating is fine, but doing it for gore would be a huge mistake. The best horror movies have very little gore in them, and the movies that inspired the current franchise certainly didn't need it. Gore is a crutch for shitty movies everyone will forget the day after tomorrow. Universal can do far better.

2. The past Mummy franchise and Dracula Untold give the lie to this one. Obviously, doing an FX blowout in every movie would be a mistake, since that would kill the piggy bank pretty darn quick, but at the same time getting outside and playing around with the power these creatures possess is a big part of what inspires audiences to show up. Take a look at all of your examples: they've not only been done, they've been done to death, and another rehash of the same boring shit won't impress. They need to break new ground while maintaining some iconic themes, and while that's tricky it's doable.

3. This is utter nonsense. Horror fans loved Dracula Untold, and Frankenstein's Monster has always had a sympathetic vibe (despite having a murderer's brain). Heck, even the mummies in the Stephen Sommers franchise were interesting enough to edge in this direction. Your demands would make the characters dull and one-dimensional, and horror fans these days want more -- twenty years of World of Darkness have seen to that.

4. If the monsters are interesting you don't need a huge supporting cast, and you definitely don't need "meat for the grinder". These are horror films, not slasher flicks. Treating them like the latter just demeans them and turns the monster angle into a cheap trick rather than a theme worthy of exploration.

So no, this is not the way to make a cinematic universe with the Universal monsters in it. Instead it's a way to fail terribly before any of them have even left the gate. Audiences deserve better.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


Return to “Film and Video”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests