What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby ErgoProxy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:50 pm

Naaah. He knows it's his eyes what is hollow, so he projects that onto the whole world to find some reason to throw rocks. And he doesn't care that he's just hit Sakura right in her teeth. He is Q-Gendo looking at the face of Q-Lilith at the foundations of the world and thinking: "Wow, I can bear the truth. I can bear it." :emogendo:

C'mon, Stillborn, and spill the beans. You just made your inner Shinji to accept self, didn't you? Instead of teaching him how to rebel against self to become a better man, you caged him for life in his state of some Diclonius Osaka. It's disgusting and you know it. :tongue:
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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby Stillborn » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:46 pm

Isn't accepting self, and the lot the life throwing you what's Anno teaches you? You shouldn't complain about it. :shifty: (Unless you're Anno. Then you can throw a tantrum in a form of a movie.)

But I guess I wasn't actually accurate. Maybe I'm not post EoE yet.

I couldn't be Gendo so I tried to be Shinji. And then I learned that if you help someone, in the future they will know you're exploitable.

This days, I'm still piloting my metaphorical fucking robot, because I'm expected to and don't have any other options. I've tried.

But I'm like metal rope, that is past the point of its tensile strengh, and occasionaly has the single strands break and lash around.

What differs me from Shinji is that I have much higher treshold of tolerance for the shit the world slings at me and that once/if I snap and lash at the world, I will neither regret it nor backpedal from it. Let it hate me for biting back. I no longer care for its supreficial kindness.
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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby ErgoProxy » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:54 pm

Being Anno? :D Being Anno is the last thing I'd wish for myself, 'cause I know well that my creations would eventually invade my dreams to tear my mind into shreds for certain reasons we can see on screen. Unless of course I wrote before some kind of Tokyo-V for them as my side-project, where they would enjoy normal, happy life off-stage, when not entertaining the audience with their own blood'n'guts (and sometimes rock'n'roll).

And if those "Chinese cartoons" taught me anything, it's the value of resistance against the world. Take for example those two frames near the end of the Instrumentality. You can see there Kaworu asking Shinji, is he okay with being hurt by other people, when they restore their AT-Fields, and Shinji replying "I don't mind that", but with angry face. Of course he does mind that, but now he's finally got that he's expected to act aggressive and that his displays of aggression will be all justified when well performed. Because the whole culture is a lie that we are cultural people (Dukaj).

So, Shinji: nobody expects you to be that much polite; your behavior confuses people and this makes them angry at you. That's why you gonna fight Asuka in the last scene, by acting as a broken kid, 'cause you know this will make her lose her temper. And what will be the score? Tie.

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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby Lt Light Ark » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:36 am

In my life in Brazil I would say that Stillborn isn't wrong, the best way to be successful is to play the game of power and corruption, summarizing? Accept Reality as it is (pretty like Anno said, we must accept the world as it is because reality doesn't exist for us)

To do 'good' is to bend over and wait people to fuck your ass and they do it.

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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby xanderkh » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:15 am

Retreating into a fantasy of the world, and striving to make a change in the world when you know it's corrupted are two different things, and I think Anno would support the latter. The latter requires you to acknowledge the "reality" of the world, but you strive to make a change, instead of retreating into your own world, pretending nothing is wrong.

And "good" does not always always mean bending over backwards to get fucked in the ass or exploited. It is possible to be better people, but not take crap.
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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby Lt Light Ark » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:17 pm

View Original Postxanderkh wrote:Retreating into a fantasy of the world, and striving to make a change in the world when you know it's corrupted are two different things, and I think Anno would support the latter. The latter requires you to acknowledge the "reality" of the world, but you strive to make a change, instead of retreating into your own world, pretending nothing is wrong.


Less that and more like accepting that people doesn't desire any change, no, I mean it, we had a lot of manifestations against corruption in government in 2014, that started, people rioted, and....nothing.

People simply walked back to the same thing, they do know that the current situation is wrong, but they doesn't want to change things and even prefer to play with the system itself.

Only one man is just only one man, now, I don't naively think that individuals cannot change the world, but often you see that they did worked by something that people wanted.

Here in Brazil it was easy money and no need to work, do you really change something if the people themselves prefer thing to be like that? (Just a tip, the 'money' is ending here, akin at what happened in Venezuela)

And "good" does not always always mean bending over backwards to get fucked in the ass or exploited. It is possible to be better people, but not take crap.


Again not where I live, be kind and selfless and people will only deal with you if you are selfless, but you are selfish?

"Eh, he is like the rest, a selfish bastard."

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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby ErgoProxy » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:14 pm

Yaaawn. We've lived like Venezuelans for about, uhm... half a century? And now about a quarter of us made a democratic decision and elected a government of some postcommies who are flirting with fascists to gain popular support for their total lack of professional skill, especially in the foreign affairs (tip: we have common border with Russia). While I hate to be toxic – cry me a river, baby.

But this is why I don't think that retreating onto your own, private Happy Island has no positive impact at all. I'd say the two approaches xanderkh mentioned can and should be combined to make your fantasy realistic and then to impose it over the reality, even if just in your small area of influence. Of course, if one can dream only about piloting the robot, s/he will be able to impose only this – a madness tasting like the end of the world. Still I think it's important to have a dreamed-of place to retreat when reality bites you back in your arse, because fantasy can change you, and in the end it's you who can change the world, even if just as little as to save yourself in it.
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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby Lt Light Ark » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:50 pm

View Original PostErgoProxy wrote:Yaaawn. We've lived like Venezuelans for about, uhm... half a century? And now about a quarter of us made a democratic decision and elected a government of some postcommies who are flirting with fascists to gain popular support for their total lack of professional skill, especially in the foreign affairs (tip: we have common border with Russia). While I hate to be toxic – cry me a river, baby.


Speaking that for me means absolutely nothing (I particularly could care less about that fact), fun would be you saying that to anyone there, unless if you don't have food to eat and is starving to death.

But you're here posting so I will assume that you're just making my entire points previously mentioned in this forum a truth, principally regarding if you're akin to Gendo so you can 'be kind' and 'do good'.

If you're starving (or living in a toxic society), why care about being good?

"But?!"

"Cry me a river baby."

But this is why I don't think that retreating onto your own, private Happy Island has no positive impact at all. I'd say the two approaches xanderkh mentioned can and should be combined to make your fantasy realistic and then to impose it over the reality, even if just in your small area of influence. Of course, if one can dream only about piloting the robot, s/he will be able to impose only this – a madness tasting like the end of the world. Still I think it's important to have a dreamed-of place to retreat when reality bites you back in your arse, because fantasy can change you, and in the end it's you who can change the world, even if just as little as to save yourself in it.


I did not say anything about retreating, I said to play as they play, why for me running away is actually the decision of those that has any sort of morality (at least in Brazil) because that means that you're unwilling to play the game, what means that you have at least some standards.

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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby ErgoProxy » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:48 pm

Ark, my boy – if you have enough money to pay for your 'Net connection, then stop talking about starvation, 'cause it's ridiculous. Instead, if you're afraid of such fate, start rounding up supplies, newspapers included, because you gonna need something to wipe your ass the Polish way, when toilet paper becomes a luxury.

And if you're talking about social toxicity, but all you can do is to retreat with your "excuse me, but my standards!"... I can tell you something: we learn that better morality is better, because it pays off in the long run. Like it pays off in Japan, which would be nothing nowadays without Japanese work ethics and Japanese will to sacrifice oneself in the name of obedience to one's superiors.

Meanwhile your """standards""" directly promote those who play the game you scorn, because everyone who could propose and enforce another set of rules have already abandoned the ship. And you weren't the last rat on that rope, were you?

Now, you won't tell me you're the last honest man standing in the whole Brazil? But I will tell you why you won't use your 'Net connection to get in touch with the other honest Brazilians, to start together some alternative society living according to these higher standards of yours. That's because this would eventually bring you into the open war with Teh Government, which you could die on. And you don't want to die, because your standards are shit. And they are shit, because they don't push you to risk or sacrifice anything for real. And that's precisely why """honest""" Brazilians have no skilled leader who could tell them what to do and how to play something else. Because leaders ain't no dumb, yo.

A fine example of beings who can only talk about some higher standards are Rebuild SEELE. They're all dead now. A fine example of people who want to do something and know how to do that, and actually are ready to risk much to make the damaged world a better place, are who? But yes, WILLE.

See, the anime babes have more wits and balls than you have.
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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby Lt Light Ark » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:55 pm

View Original PostErgoProxy wrote:Ark, my boy – if you have enough money to pay for your 'Net connection, then stop talking about starvation, 'cause it's ridiculous. Instead, if you're afraid of such fate, start rounding up supplies, newspapers included, because you gonna need something to wipe your ass the Polish way, when toilet paper becomes a luxury.


:rolleyes:

Again, speak that to the Venezuelans, because y'know, anyone that didn't gave their food is seven feet underground.

And if you're talking about social toxicity, but all you can do is to retreat with your "excuse me, but my standards!"... I can tell you something: we learn that better morality is better, because it pays off in the long run. Like it pays off in Japan, which would be nothing nowadays without Japanese work ethics and Japanese will to sacrifice oneself in the name of obedience to one's superiors.


:rolleyes:

Because Japanese Work Ethics is really the best, it isn't even criticized nowadays no, it is even said to be one of the causes of the low birth rate and the wholesome stagnation here, no.

Keep yourself saying that.

Funniest part, people did pointed that too much, was there any change?

Meanwhile your """standards""" directly promote those who play the game you scorn, because everyone who could propose and enforce another set of rules have already abandoned the ship. And you weren't the last rat on that rope, were you?


Instead they had ran away, and we know that running away is for the cowards, right?

Now, you won't tell me you're the last honest man standing in the whole Brazil? But I will tell you why you won't use your 'Net connection to get in touch with the other honest Brazilians, to start together some alternative society living according to these higher standards of yours. That's because this would eventually bring you into the open war with Teh Government, which you could die on. And you don't want to die, because your standards are shit. And they are shit, because they don't push you to risk or sacrifice anything for real. And that's precisely why """honest""" Brazilians have no skilled leader who could tell them what to do and how to play something else. Because leaders ain't no dumb, yo.


:rolleyes:

If you mean that standards like being honesty, hardwork, responsibility, and individuality are shit, okay.

*points towards Seele*

You know? They kinda agree with you.

A fine example of beings who can only talk about some higher standards are Rebuild SEELE. They're all dead now. A fine example of people who want to do something and know how to do that, and actually are ready to risk much to make the damaged world a better place, are who? But yes, WILLE.


:rolleyes:

If you mean that standards like being honesty, hardwork, responsibility, and individuality are shit, okay.

*points towards Seele*

You know? They kinda agree with you.

See, the anime babes have more wits and balls than you have.


:uhh:

You mean balls to fight against standards like honesty, hardwork, responsibility, and individuality are shit, okay.

*points towards Seele*

You know? They kinda agree with then, I do ask myself why the fuck didn't those women are even fighting against Seele...maybe because they want their own version of Instrumentality, right?

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Postby Sachi » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:08 pm

Let's disagree with each other with a little more respect, please, or I'm locking the thread.
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Postby ErgoProxy » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:17 am

My apologies.

I was running away in my life way too long and too far, and now I'm overreacting, so to say.
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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby one-eyed » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:10 pm

Realistically, Gendo at Shinji's age probably killed small animals like pigeons, chickens, etc. in strange rituals and ceremonies which he himself invented with improvised altars, and already began to practice with the dogs and cats of the neighborhood in the expectation of preparing for the phase with people, as befits a complete psychopath with God complex, messianic delusions and mother issues to a level above Charles Manson.

If you are a romantic, he (or it?) probably was a Chuunibyou.

Chuunibyou is a Japanese slang which can roughly be translated as "Secondary School Syndrome" (being the equivalent for the 8th grade syndrome). People with chuunibyou tries to act cool like they are the main character of a show, but mostly its just childish delusions for example like when you see someone trying to act like a anime character then you know he or she is a Chuunibyou. It can also be used when one wants to act more adult-like such as drinking coffee black despite hating the taste of coffee in general. Many who have chuunibyou believe that they possess special powers and are different from the rest of the people. Often results in shame, disgust, and the wish erase that period of time from existence in later years.

There are 3 main types of Chuunibyou:

DQN (DQN 系, dokyun kei)
The one who pretends to be antisocial, or acts with a delinquent even though really not being one. They create stories about common gang behavior as fights or take pride in knowing about this subculture. DQN is a slang for "antisocial person" or " irritating delinquent".

Subcultural / Hipster (サ ブ カ ル 系, SubCul kei)
It prefers not the mainstream or lesser-known trends and establishes itself as being special. People of this kind do not really love their own subculture, but rather strive to get the "cool" factor by not having the same interests as others.

Evil Eye (邪 気 眼 系, Jyakigan kei)
People who admire mystical powers and think they have some hidden power within them. This type is also known as the delusional type.

This phase is quite common among the development of most people, occurring obviously in adolescence, where many of us go completely idiotic. However, the problem is that there are some adults who have this symptom.

Chuunibyou is not recognized as a mental problem or like, but being an often psychological problem when it is the escape route from reality.Unfortunately, there are many people who have chuunibyou in the country of origin of the term, and this ends up being a social problem by many not to exceed this stage after adulthood and the problems that many who have chuunibyou pass during this stage because of the non-acceptance of people in general to this situation.

In my opinion, Gendo corresponds to the first and third types: he got into fights and obviously was not very good since he was arrested with only a slight bruise on his face. In bar brawls, who loses it is that is arrested and to take down a good fighter would need more than a simple punch in the face. In addition, Gendo had the habit of speaking enigmatically for no logical reason, to look deep and mysterious; he used religious symbols from other cultures to look mystical, he had a ritualistic "pose of power" and liked to put himself in a dangerous position to test his "predestination" like some crazy people who do Russian roulette.

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Postby honsou » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:40 pm

It seems likely Gendo would be similar to Shinji but with a harder edge given that generational differences would probably cause students to be harder on him. There doesn't seem to be any sociopathic tendencies in Gendo's personality so I would rule out him hurting small animals and the like.

Also as a side note while looking up stuff regarding this topic I found that in 1999, Gendo would be around 32, which means while at the university he would of either been some sort of post doc student or the janitor. I'm going to guess he was the janitor
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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby one-eyed » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:00 pm

Did not you see any sociopathic tendencies in Gendo? You're kidding, right?

I think Gendo was polar opposite of Shinji in youth. At the time that Yui was still alive and he was supposedly happy, he seemed like to provoke others. He had a nasty smile, cynical and mocking in the face as if he were making fun of everyone. He had very little empathy even mocking the Second Impact, but mostly I think he had very serious mother issues.

I think Gendo always hated and despised Shinji because he saw the son as an enemy who wanted to steal Yui. Gendo saw Yui as a maternal figure. In the scene of 2.0 in which he sees the image of Yui overlapping that of Rei and he reminds of her asking him to take care of Shinji reminding me of Genesis 4: 9 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother ? " And He said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"

Gendo and Shinji were never Laius and Oedipus, they were Cain and Abel.

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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby Sachi » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:04 pm

View Original Postone-eyed wrote:Did not you see any sociopathic tendencies in Gendo? You're kidding, right?

Honsou's background is in mental health, so I'm willing to take his word for it.
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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:20 pm

View Original Postone-eyed wrote:I think Gendo always hated and despised Shinji because he saw the son as an enemy who wanted to steal Yui.

...in Sadamoto's version, and Sadamoto's version ONLY.

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Postby honsou » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:24 pm

Depending on upbringing and a variety of other factors a sociopath can be very friendly, personable and even present themselves as caring. This would be due to the fact although sociopaths don't really have empathy or the ability to feel guilt, they still are able to see the world around them and see how people act, therefore are able to mimic those behaviors.

The major evidence against Gendo being a sociopath is his relationship with Yui. His undying love for Yui is so intense that he was basically willing to work his entire life and give up the planet just to be with her again. What's also important is to note that he does not need Yui to be successful within NERV, as he is clearly very successful post contact experiment. So Gendo attempting to get Yui back is not to become more successful or to get secondary gains. This in it of itself is proof that he is not a sociopath/has anti social personality disorder. Its this sort of connection that allows me to rule out Gendo being a sociopath/having anti social personality disorder.
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Postby Bhorium » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:05 pm

I would say that Gendo's immense sense of self-loathing also counts against him being a sociopath. Sociopaths believe that they are entitled to others' affection. It is pretty much the entirely opposite with Gendo; he strongly believes that he is inherently too worthless and terrible of a person to ever be deserving of such things.
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Re: What do you think Gendo was like at Shinji's age?

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Postby traumalamb » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:10 pm

View Original PostBhorium wrote:I would say that Gendo's immense sense of self-loathing also counts against him being a sociopath. Sociopaths believe that they are entitled to others' affection. It is pretty much the entirely opposite with Gendo; he strongly believes that he is inherently too worthless and terrible of a person to ever be deserving of such things.

Agreed. Watch EoE. He truly cares for his son, he just has no idea how to show it.

My guess is he was more like... Asuka. Or Rei? Cold. Maybe prone to anger. Another guess of mine was he had a dad that was just like he was with Shinji, or more abusive. The more abusive part would make sense in that Gendo kept his distance out of fear of hurting his son the way he was hurt by his own father. But if his father was also distant, that would make sense as well, because Gendo would be mimicking what he knows. He thinks that this is what fathers should be like.

This would also take a toll on his self esteem. A father who made him feel worthless and showed him very little love would make Gendo feel like he deserved it, even if he can't tell that it is the root of the problem.

I'd put bets on Gendo having a rather tragic past. Not that it absolves him of his actions, but it does give an explanation.
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