(EoE Spoilers) Discussion About Misato

[SinkJar]

I'm tired of seeing old threads about this that I can't jump on, so I thought I'd give my opinion on this controversial scene. Misato's death scene in EoE.

First, let's establish what actually happens. Misato gets shot and is bleeding out. Shinji's being a pussy and a little bit an asshole. Misato kisses Shinji, tells him it was a "grown-up kiss" and that they'll "do the rest later." She obviously used tongue and is referring to sex

OK. So, this is not Misato actually wanting to get freaky with Shinji. She kisses him and talks about "doing the rest later" as a motivation for Shinji. Did Shinji need motivation in this scene? 100%. Did he need sexual motivation? Maybe not. Misato is dying, and she often thinks of sex as a solution to problems. This combines to make her decide to kiss Shinji. The kiss is also her saying goodbye, a kind of motherly "I love you" not a sexy one. She probably realized Shinji had some lusting in his heart for her, and this was a way to give some of that closure and release, not as a way to express her own sexual feelings. She's not a pedo.The piece about "doing the rest" is added as extra motivation. Shinji doesn't need this, but it helps Misato, in her mind she's helped Shiinji overcome his problems.
Misato and Shinji's relationship is complicated. In one respect she's a mother. She's occasionally more sisterly. But she's also a romantic interest and sexual possibility for Shinji. All of these combine during this scene. She knows she'll never see Shinji again, so she has to say goodbye as mom, sister, and love interest. So, she speaks to him calmly, equally firm and gentle, like a mother, she makes an almost humorous good-bye like a sister, and kisses him like a lover. These make her feel content in her final moments that she helped Shinji, and it gives Shinji a good goodbye. Misato does this without sexual feelings for Shinji, but actually as a perfect goodbye that compliments their relationship.
That's my opinion. What do you think, sirs?

[sephirotic]

I've never agreed with the common theory that "Misato is a slut that can only communicate through sex". And I also completely disagree with the fanwank that Misato was actually LITERALLY offering herself sexually to Shinji on Episode 23.

Misato completely realizes that she failed as a motherly figure only on Episode 24 when she says: "I failed as a Guardian", and yes, she realizes Shinji lusts for her.

But the theory that Misato has sex with any men to "relate" to them, and the hypothesis that she has had multiple sexual partners comes exclusive from the line on episode 25 refereeing to her Electra Complex projected towards Kaji.
When it's said that "anyone will do", I don't interpretate that literally. Anyone that REMINDS Misato OF HER FATHER WOULD HAVE BEEN OK BACK WHEN SHE FIRST MET Kaji. And the man who she found BEFORE realizing her daddy issues, was indeed, Kaji.

There is one strong hint to suggest that Kaji was the only man of her life, and it's on episode 20: When Kaji asks if Misato still smokes, she answers "only in situations like this, so you are the only one who knows".
Of course one can argue that Misato is lying about the amount of sexual partners she has had like many women do, but truth is, that after Misato realized her own daddy issues and decided to break with Kaji, she feared to approximate other man. She feared finding her father again, and thus as she entered Nerv just after that, she devoted herself for her job to avenge her father. Her sex drive shifted to sublimation through work (reefer to Freud, here). On episode 15 she said: "When I broke up with you, I told you I had another one, but that was a lie". Another small hint to that.

When Misato kissed Shinji on EoE, she already knew she was going to die, and she also knew that Shinji needed more Eros than Thanatos and that Shinji lusted for her. It was a desperation act to try and put Shinji on the move, it doesn't mean she was actually literally considering having taboo sex with a 14 year old boy. The same goes for the scene on episode 23. She was only going to hold his hand and hug him. Even if she realized that Shinji lusts for her and that could maybe help taking the focus away from her pain, it doesn't mean they would literally going all the way down to it had Shinji not pushed her away. I think that those that believe otherwise have watched too much porn and hentai and fail to understand how the Electra complex of Misato works, and how big importance simply holding hands and skinship in the strict Japanese society means.

For a boy that can't even call her own guardian by her first name without an honorific, holding hands and opening his heart to her would be near impossible. Just the simple act of holding hands was repulsive to Shinji. Even if Misato was actually considering seducing him, his repealing towards her was from the simple touch, he wouldn't even understand a sex invitation towards him had it actually been given.

So yeah, I pretty much agree with you.
And with that I have my first chance of bringing back an old topic that I completely disagree with the majority of fans around here, and I'm ready for all the backfire it'll generate.

[Mr. Tines]

In EoE, it's getting to be the end of the world, and the only person who might be able to do anything about it is in a complete funk. That person is also a 14 year old boy -- so as a desperate last resort, trying to motivate with the promise of hot cougar pussy seems like an understandable thing to do, especially when she knew she was probably mortally wounded.

This is why the reading of episode 23 as an attempted seduction doesn't work for me -- why would she later try a known failing tactic in such circumstances?

[Kendrix]

When it's said that "anyone will do", I don't interpretate that literally. Anyone that REMINDS Misato OF HER FATHER WOULD HAVE BEEN OK BACK WHEN SHE FIRST MET Kaji. And the man who she found BEFORE realizing her daddy issues, was indeed, Kaji.

Personally, I saw that line even more generally - She is lonely and desperate for any company that will relieve that - After Shinji isn't responsive, she tries talking to the penguin instead. (Unless ppl are insinuating she wanted to screw Pen Pen, too. ^^°) - That's probably why she has a pet in the first place because she can't really handle solitude well for reasons that get a whole treatise in ep 25.

That's what the scene in 23 was about: She goes in there with the intent to comfort Shinji after he saw a comerade and friend go up in flames (pretty much the only halfway pleasant relationship he had left at this point), but, they don't click - She can't really answer or engage with his thoughts ("I'm sad so why can't I cry?") and he kinda wants to be alone, or rather, is reacting more by withdrawing than by seeking comfort/distracting - since they were similar Misato could often asume that he'd react like she would, but here, their coping mechanisms clash.
To begin with they both sit there in rather closed-off postures, not really engaging.

All she does is offer to take his hand, like, sure, physical affection but there's such a thing as nuance.
Baseline is, it doesn't work and as she walks out, Misato first wonders why ("Is it awkward because I'm female?" - "No, he wouldn't wanna see anything else, either") before coming to the conclusion that the whole thing was partially for her own benefit (and of course given her less than ideal self-esteem levels she's tempted to equate partially with completely) but basically she's felt pretty alone since Kaji died, her friendship with Ritsuko has been on the rocks, the whole drama with Asuka happened, and she thought they might commiserate - which would involve some comfort for her as well.

Like, this is a wider, deeper, general human loneliness thing.


Otherwise, I agree with pretty much everything you said here.
In EoE she'd been trying for ages to get a reaction out of Shinji and was running out of ideas. I mean she tries everything in that scene; She tries intimidation ("I'll hate you forever if you don't!"), she tries comfort, she tries confession/opennes of her own failings, and she tries the promise of boinkage just totop it off because if he doesn't get into that EVA, humanity is toast (or so she thinks).

[Reichu]

And I also completely disagree with the fanwank that Misato was actually LITERALLY offering herself sexually to Shinji on Episode 23.

"Fanwank" is entirely the wrong term, since the suggestion was first strongly planted in the fandom by one of the Newtype film books, an officially licensed tie-in with a good amount of behind-the-scenes info.

IMO those who dismiss the less savory elements of Misato's relationship with Shinji seem to take the relevant character moments in isolation rather than in whole, which really isn't the right way of going about things. No puzzle was ever solved by refusing to put the pieces together.

[Bagheera]

IMO those who dismiss the less savory elements of Misato's relationship with Shinji seem to take the relevant character moments in isolation rather than in whole, which really isn't the right way of going about things. No puzzle was ever solved by refusing to put the pieces together.

Agreed. Misato is a sexual creature, same as most humans, and her approach to sexuality is fucked up. But that's not because she sleeps around to connect with/use people -- it's because her whole idea of sex and the reasons people engage in it is fundamentally twisted. That's why she considers herself a slut even though she's only ever had sex with Kaji, and why she approaches Shinji as she does in ep. 23. In her mind even her harmless interactions with Hyuga probably count as slutty behavior.

[sephirotic]

"Fanwank" is entirely the wrong term, since the suggestion was first strongly planted in the fandom by one of the Newtype film books, an officially licensed tie-in with a good amount of behind-the-scenes info.

IMO those who dismiss the less savory elements of Misato's relationship with Shinji seem to take the relevant character moments in isolation rather than in whole, which really isn't the right way of going about things. No puzzle was ever solved by refusing to put the pieces together.

I have read that subtitle from Nyantype in a screenshot from the scene of episode 23. That means nothing to me as we can't assure the editor had actually consulted with Anno or Tsurumaki himself before writing that or if the editor even had full notion of what the true symbolism meant.

It was precisely my analysis of Misato character as a WHOLE that lead me finding completely absurd the notion that she would make a move to a 14 years old child in such a fastidiously way like that.

Agreed. Misato is a sexual creature, same as most humans, and her approach to sexuality is fucked up. But that's not because she sleeps around to connect with/use people -- it's because her whole idea of sex and the reasons people engage in it is fundamentally twisted. That's why she considers herself a slut even though she's only ever had sex with Kaji, and why she approaches Shinji as she does in ep. 23. In her mind even her harmless interactions with Hyuga probably count as slutty behavior.

- Every woman is a sexual creature. This goes without saying.
- "Daddy issues women" (aka unresolved electra complex) are VERY common, neurotic people with their own sexuality with several idiosyncrasies are ALSO very common. But the leap towards a neurotic approach to sex to actually inviting a 14 years old out for consolation sex is pretty much as absurd as saying that people that masturbate to rape-porn would actually commit rape. It's HENTAI LOGIC. What reigns in our unconscious and fantasy is strongly repressed, and this repression also creates so much self-criticism, (which I agree Misato does by thinking she is a slut when se actually isn't. Repression is also a reflect of morals which comes from the society. And needless to say how morally repressed the Japanese are.)
Don't underestimate the power of the super-ego and our morality. Misato may have issues with her attraction to men that remind her father, but that is, suggesting that she would commit a taboo just because of that, absurd.

Now, I'm writing all this interjecting with the theory that Misato would have actually gone all the way down with Shinji had him not pushed her away, but I'm not against a different interpretation of what could have been going on on Misato's head as following:

Misato was actually inviting Shinji to hug her, in her mind "skinship" could help alleviate the depressive pain, but at the same time, she was well aware that Shinji lusted at her as a woman and didn't have her as a mother figure, and that she also knew Shinji could have been disturbed by having bodly contact with her to the point of even getting aroused. She may actually have thought that, and even thought that the feeling of arousal could actually be a way to pull Shinji more towards Eros and away from Thanatos, a drive to pull Shinji away of the depressive pain he was. However, even semi-consciously being aware of the seduction she would never actually considered having sex with Shinji, even if she believed she was a slut, she still is a ethical person aspiring in doing what is right and a woman inserted in the context of a very moralistic Japanese society. Actually commiting the taboo sex with Shinji out of pity, would be too much of a imoral act to her.

It is also important to note, that just after Shinji pushed her away, she went after Pen Pen. Then she realizes that "anyone is fine, I'm the one that is lonely". While is true that all affection is a sublimation form of sexual impulse, this does not actually means that she would go all the way down with Pen Pen, now does it?

[Bagheera]

- "Daddy issues women" (aka unresolved electra complex) are VERY common, neurotic people with their own sexuality with several idiosyncrasies are ALSO very common. But the leap towards a neurotic approach to sex to actually inviting a 14 years old out for consolation sex is pretty much as absurd as saying that people that masturbate to rape-porn would actually commit rape. It's HENTAI LOGIC.

Not when you remember she's also trying to motivate the boy to perform a task that he really doesn't like, but that is also fundamentally necessary to ensure the continued existence of all life on Earth. She's not doing this because she thinks it's appropriate, she's doing it because she's desperate and she's grasping at straws. And remember, the argument isn't that she was trying to get him in the sack so much as that she was making an offer she knew was inappropriate and that made Shinji uncomfortable. A simple hug does not fall into that territory.

[Reichu]

Between EoTV and EoE, the subtext is not IMHO terribly subtle.

EoTV: Misato's unconscious tells her that she wants to show her sexuality to Shinji, and Misato's conscious mind tries vehemently to deny it. A flashback to Shinji saying "stop it, Misato!" in #23 is immediately followed by Misato slut-shaming herself.

EoE: Misato says that she wasn't able to become Shinji's mother, and we go immediately into the flashback of the weeklong college sexathon. What's the connection here? The implication is that Misato's sexuality has something to do with her failing as a mother. By episode 24, Shinji has been alienated from Misato, so perhaps there is something that happened in episode 23 to produce this result...