Spear logic

[Arcadia's legacy]

Alright, so we know from Kaworu's words (And i think we can all agree he was being genuinly honest at this point) that Gendo swapping the spears had a significant effect on how 4I played out, however Fuyutski later says that it went almost exactly as Seele wanted. So, what exactly did swapping the spears accomplish if the event was going to be near-identical anyway?

[Reichu]

I think it's implied that the Spears weren't so much "swapped" as one of them reverted into Longinus form for reasons unknown. A similar question would be, if all four of the Spears were Longinus shaped at Second Impact, why did one of them turn Cassius after it was blasted off to the Moon? I dunno lol.

As for your main question, only thing I can think of is that requiring Longinus and Cassius together wasn't necessary for Seele's plans, only Kaworu's. He's called "Seele's Boy" and all, but I'd assume the stalker-ish "making Shinji-kun happy" side of things is exclusively his own.

[BlueBasilisk]

^One of the spears in the 2nd Impact flashback seems to have a smooth shaft while the other three are obviously notched and spiraled.

Killing Kaworu was the net gain on Gendo and Fuyutsuki's side. Seele wasn't counting on that happening and Kaworu says it was his demotion to the 13th Angel that set the whole thing off. Nobody turned into a god-like Eva creature, so something didn't go according to expectations.

I wonder if the Spears are supposed to act like conductors, with one being "positive" and one being "negative." Look at the set-up in Eva 13:
Angel+Lilin
Adam+Lilith(+Angel)
And ideally, Cassius+Longinus.

Eva 13 represents...a duality of opposing elements coming together, I suppose, which fits with Seele's plan to forcefully evolve the Lilin by sacrificing and resurrecting them so they're complemented with the Fruit of Life. I think the second Spear of Longinus somehow disrupted the flow of the process and resulted in a backlash that hit Kaworu and the Eva instead.

Check this out, Right after Unit 13 eats the 12th Angel, the glowing parts on the Eva glow more brightly, the Eva trembles, and the Spears light up bright pink:

SPOILER: Show

But then there's a flash of light from the Eva's chest and it's flooded with power, turning white. At the same time, the spears lose their glow and turn dark again:

SPOILER: Show

Maybe something else would have happened if Kaworu and Shinji had the Spear of Cassius? That's all I've got.

[NemZ]

look again. they didn't lose their glow so much as it's just being washed out by how bright 13 is.. there's still a faint pinkish aura around them.

[BlueBasilisk]

That wasn't the best shot. The Spears do fade back to red right after the Eva awakens:

SPOILER: Show

After that it's a bit inconsistent. They're usually drawn red but there are a couple cuts where the coil and forks are glowing again, then they're not in the next.

[NemZ]

There's still red glow there too. It's not as bright, yes, but it's still there.

[Reichu]

^One of the spears in the 2nd Impact flashback seems to have a smooth shaft while the other three are obviously notched and spiraled.

Ah, thanks. I missed that somehow.

Kaworu does distinctly say that the Spear "changed its shape", though, not that it was "swapped out" or anything like that. There must be a reason for this. Kaworu knows more than we do, so I've taken the comment to mean that the Spears are capable of shifting from one form to another. I wonder if this has anything to do with all four of them being Longinus-type in that shot of the Adams(?) from Until You Come To Me.

[BlueBasilisk]

Possibly! The Longinus-types can shapeshift from a pitchfork to a spear to a super long spear (and that weird helix shape in EoE), so one Spear turning into another isn't that outlandish, I guess. Weird that they never question how they might be able to change it back to the Cassius type if that's the case.

[cowman850]

Possibly! The Longinus-types can shapeshift from a pitchfork to a spear to a super long spear (and that weird helix shape in EoE), so one Spear turning into another isn't that outlandish, I guess. Weird that they never question how they might be able to change it back to the Cassius type if that's the case.

This, and the Lance-copies from EoE converting to "ooken", and EVA-05's jousting lance.

[Sachi]

This, and the Lance-copies from EoE converting to "ooken", and EVA-05's jousting lance.

Unit-05's lance is just another melee weapon, like the Evas are known to have (knives, axes, etc). Completely normal, and not alien or based off alien technology, as with the case of Longinus, Cassius, and the Longinus replicas.

[Reichu]

Unit-05's lance is just another melee weapon, (...) Completely normal, and not alien or based off alien technology, as with the case of Longinus, Cassius, and the Longinus replicas.

Oh? You sound so certain about this... :-3

Official kanji salad for Eva-05's weapon:
対使徒専用殲滅兵器　簡易式ロンギヌスの槍（似非復元型）
Anti-Angel Extermination Weapon Spear of Longinus Basic Type (Pseudo-Restoration)

[Sachi]

Oh? You sound so certain about this... :-3

Official kanji salad for Eva-05's weapon:
対使徒専用殲滅兵器　簡易式ロンギヌスの槍（似非復元型）
Anti-Angel Extermination Weapon Spear of Longinus Basic Type (Pseudo-Restoration)

Got me. That's certainly very interesting. I wonder what the implications of it are, or if it's just more of the trend of humans mucking with alien tech. The concept was explored more in 2.0 and really driven home with Q. Given all the implications behind the Tunniel and it's containment introduced in the same scene, then I would say it's probably that.

[cowman850]

Got me. That's certainly very interesting. I wonder what the implications of it are, or if it's just more of the trend of humans mucking with alien tech. The concept was explored more in 2.0 and really driven home with Q. Given all the implications behind the Tunniel and it's containment introduced in the same scene, then I would say it's probably that.

I knew I wasn't going crazy!
My assumption would be a psuedo-restoration of one of the Adams lances, since there were 4 present at second impact.
Two embedded in Lilit (one of which had changed back from cassius), while the other two are missing.

[Signer]

By the way, what does Gendo need an army for? The only assets left in this world seem to be EVAs and spears, but if WILLE had a spear, they would have used it already...

[BlueBasilisk]

Could be to simply stall for time. Wille can't bring all their firepower to bear on Gendo if they have 10,000 idiot Evas to keep tabs on.

[Arcadia's legacy]

You mean "Baka Eva's"

[Signer]

But if he has everything he needs, what is there to wait for? Before it was angels and construction of EVA 13, but now the only use for an army seems to be getting EVA 01.

[pwhodges]

And where is his wife? Getting Unit-01 surely remains crucial for Gendou.

[Sachi]

But if he has everything he needs, what is there to wait for? Before it was angels and construction of EVA 13, but now the only use for an army seems to be getting EVA 01.

Who says Gendo's waiting? It's possible he's in the middle of the process already. It's possible that it could be the very first thing he does in 3.0+1.0.

[Reichu]

And where is his wife? Getting Unit-01 surely remains crucial for Gendou.

Wonder what the logic is, then, of putting Eva-01 in orbit (Neo-Nerv's logo is on the container) and letting her fall in the hands of Wille. Even if everything they do is in accordance with the scenario, just seems like making things more complicated for the sake of making them more complicated... Well, I guess the same thing could be said for a lot about 3.0.