Why I Don't Like Mari

[robersora]

Which is unfortunate, because it does sound fascinating. I know it's vanishingly unlikely, but if we got a new Evangelion TV series -- one without Shinji, and focused on the events of the timeskip -- I think Khara would have a real winner on its hands. I realize that's not what Khara wants to do, not what Anno wants to do, but that doesn't change the fact that it would be a great show.

Now with FLCL2&3 announced, I think everything can happen. After the fourth movie, they need to do something, if they want to keep the money flowing.
And I'm all for it, as long as they don't touch the original series again.

[Bagheera]

Well, to the story, nothing. But, as to the character herself, a little.

No, not at all. If it isn't part of what we see in the movies it isn't relevant.

Mari on the other hand is what she is and citing porn actually hold merit because it has context as to what her character stands for.

Except that very much is not what her character stands for.

How she suggestively lands on Shinji, how it hints/implies her and Asuka are lesbians or whatnot and all that other stuff.

It doesn't hint that. Not even a little bit. It hints that they're friends and that Mari likes to tease Asuka about Shinji, that's it.

[unitM]

You know why Mari is a good character? Not because she's seemingly perfect(which she isn't) or that she's a Mary Sue(which she also is not). It's because she's (seemingly)mentally healthy.

Of course there are advantages and disadvantages to everything. Her being a healthy individual sets herself against the cynical Evangelion plot. A perfect example of this is just after the 12th angel forms into a giant fetus and Asuka attempts to machine gun it down. Mari, from her little crevice, simply smiles and tells Asuka she can't do anything about it, and that Mari has a personal interest in seeing what happens next.

The world could be ending in the next moment but Mari simply laughs it off.

Mari is important because a normal character can act as a foundation for all of the fucked up characters to revolve around. This isn't necessarily the case, since a lot of the screen time is given to Shinji, but consider her actions and words throughout the course of NTE. Are they generally agreeable? I'd say so. In Q, when 4I ends, Unit 13 is falling, and Shinji is internally melting down, what does Mari do? She ejects Shinji and gives him some wise words. More specifically, she gives Shinji some words that are actually... normal("learn how the world works", "save the princess", as opposed to "we need the spears to save the world" or "you won't be doing anything").

You can tell that she's actually healthy and I think that foundation is what makes her an important character. Due to the nature of Evangelion, she'll always hit some rough patches with the fanbase... but I don't think that's evidence for her being a weak character.

I think I understand the themes of Evangelion a lot in the realm of psychology and psychiatry. Reading back on some old interviews Anno's had, I'm sure we've read similar books related to both. From my perspective: Shinji continually forms a depressive script("I'm not okay, but you are"). Asuka carries an anger script explicitly, but internally she struggles with validating herself through her achievements("I'm okay, but you're not", but sometimes, "why couldn't I do it by myself?). Ultimately, this forms Asuka's character of being a warrior that faces many hardships, takes a beating, but survives through it(EoE, unit 02). She translates her depressive script into achievements and often anger. She gets along with Misato because they both follow similar scripts and Mari is a healthy companion for Asuka because Mari diffuses Asuka's surfacing anger.

Mari is just a pleasant fun girl. There are no negative scripts surrounding her. She's grounded really well. She doesn't dwell on the past, nor on the future("I wonder what will happen when I hop in Unit 02/when the last angel is defeated?"). All of Evangelion's characters have some sort of negative scripts about themselves... Mari does not.

The psychiatry manual that I'm referring to has a lot of evidence throughout the series, especially with scripts, and it's available for free if you google for it. If you'd like to see what I'm saying, feel free to look into it. There are 4 main life scripts that people justify their lives with... Misato and Asuka fit into one, Shinji into another, Mari into the healthy one("I'm okay, but so are you"), and Gendo falls into the fourth("I'm not okay, but neither are you", as witnessed by him verbalizing his rejected attitudes in EoE).

[xPearse]

Where? How about citing something that makes a meaningful contribution to your claims.

Been years since I saw it. My bad. I got nuffin.

I'm sure that in 10 second of searching I can find you porn doujin covers of Asuka, Rei or Misato in even more salacious poses than that, does that mean that they were created solely for fap material too?

There's probably a partial truth to that. Incest for Rei & Shinji, hatesex for Asuka & Shinji, older woman & young boy fetish who also wants to be a mother figure and fuck him, reverse that for Asuka & Kaji, and then we have our resident lesbians Maya and Ritsuko. You see, it's not the fact that it doesn't occur in the show, but the impression it leaves after watching. Then again, Gainax is the type of company that gauges on the obsessive otaku market to pick up on these things because that's who they aim their shows at.

Actually, there kinda is. One of the pins i recall carries the pattern of the Royal Air Force, and knowing that Mari originates from Britain.........
I'ts loose, but there

Probably just half British & Japanese. But does that actually mean she comes from there?

[Bagheera]

There's probably a partial truth to that. Incest for Rei & Shinji, hatesex for Asuka & Shinji, older woman & young boy fetish who also wants to be a mother figure and fuck him, reverse that for Asuka & Kaji, and then we have our resident lesbians Maya and Ritsuko. You see, it's not the fact that it doesn't occur in the show, but the impression it leaves after watching.

That might be the impression it leaves for you, but that doesn't seem to hold for anyone else.

Probably just half British & Japanese. But does that actually mean she comes from there?

She's British, so probably.

[BlueBasilisk]

^Her EG wiki page says she's from England according to the 2.22 dvd booklet.

[cyharding]

I've had this question for a while, and this is probably the best place to put it. Is it possible that we are projecting certain traits onto Mari due to the fact so little is known about her?

[Bagheera]

I've had this question for a while, and this is probably the best place to put it. Is it possible that we are projecting certain traits onto Mari due to the fact so little is known about her?

I'd say that's extremely likely.

[Reichu]

Projection is a thing that's going to happen no matter how well you know somebody, real or fictional. Pretty much a given in the human experience.

[Kendrix]

You know why Mari is a good character? Not because she's seemingly perfect(which she isn't) or that she's a Mary Sue(which she also is not). It's because she's (seemingly)mentally healthy.

I think painting her as a "token plain normalo" isn't fair to her, either. She displays traits that are not exactly "random plain jane", beyond just her general eccentricity.

We don't learn her backstory, apart from the implication that she's somehow related to the scientist with the barette in the Yui photo and that her knowledge somehow comes from that connection (though Rebuild isn't explicit about Rei's or Asuka's either, but they're sufficiently implied to have been unpleasant), but we know that she distrusted adults and working with others (pre-timeskip at least), there's that moment of her longingly gazing at a flock of birds.

Another thing she is is level-headed, despite her surface level mischief/nonchalance (A point Saakamoto explicitly mentioned in the Q interviews, one of the promt Anno gave her was, roughly "war era 'deal with it' attitude" - What's healthy or normal about standing by and cooly watching a catastrophe happen? Eva is not a show where ppl show "typical movie behavior." Just think of ll the times the Bridge Bunnies' horrified faces were used for effort.)
The closest we came to seeing her loser her calm was fourth impact.... where the underlying seriousness was simply no longer supplemented by surface silly.

I'd agree with you that she certainly IS someone who lives in the present, sees the world as it is, not reading implications into it, and that she tends to not dwell on negativity (that's a legitimate kind of personality to have, you know? And exactly the one you'd expect in someone who is good in a crisis. Please don't talk like it isn't, or like it's lesser than being a pensive philosophical person.) and that this makes her is a good contrast figure, which is exactly what she's supposed to be.
She's a bit like Kaworu, not just in the sense of being an advisor anf foil to Shinji (if, so far to a much lesser degree), but in creating a contrast element in part through positivity except her wisdom is simple and intuitive instead of abstract and philosophical. I mean, in the end what she does is make a valiant stand here and there, her valor is more the point than the results of her actions (She significantly helps at the climax of both movies, but doesn't solve the plot a Mary Sue would. )

[Kouzou]

@Ray:

I overall agree Mari is what Anno and Gainax promise, fan service The issue isn't her bust size persay, but that she acts and looks similar to a mid-teenage girl like the others, yet has far larger breats and booty compared to Asuka or Rei or the norm, thus voluptuous fan service lol They emphasize her knowing this and the jiggle as they move *drools alittle*.

I would also say Mari is the voice of the audience, especially the veteran of Eva audience. She is content and matter of fact about all of it, as we would be knowing what we know, thus perhaps showing she knows more than she lets on... or is a 4th wall break waiting to happen.

Sadamoto might have been going for the yuri thing in his manga, debatable, but all we know of Mari is she is a secret personnel outside of SEELE's agencies, super knowledgeful (and almost a Mary Sue, Rei did out do her against Zereul as mentioned), and is attracted to LCL and most likely Shinji. Beyond that, she is a mystery fan service character and not really important... not yet at least. In fact, she, more than anyone but Shinji is probably what is holding Anno up in deciding where to go for the 4th film.

Prediction, she dies for Shinji in the fourth film and probably...hopefully, at least gets naked to stop wasting our time lol Also, maybe she will take Shinji's virginity this time, or turn out to be an angel, who knows lol Mari is not of the trinity of girls after all.

Mari's number one purpose is merchandising. If you like voluptuous teenage appearing chicks, Mari is it. If you want Milfs, Misato or Ritsuko...maybe Naoko too lol If you want petite and a girl who needs you and makes you feel needed highly, Rei. If you want Tsundere and such things associated, you want Asuka. Simple really. If you want elegant milf, you want Yui. Simple. Male demographic, male author, male audience and desire as the primary= $$$$$$$$(think yen here granted lol).

[Arcadia's legacy]

.........You didn't read any of the replies did you?

[Kouzou]

.........You didn't read any of the replies did you?

Read em', challenged em'. I mentioned that they mentioned Rei out doing her afterall. Mari is fan service/ voice of the veteran audience, she isn't meant to be taken seriously. Not yet at least. Think about it. Foreign voluptuous girl, wearing glasses, all out going and mysterious, she has no real struggle. She is just there, waiting to get naked lol Truth is, they should have made Kensuke a pilot and have him struggle some, then die epically after realizing what War actually is. But... boobs...
Perhaps one could argue she is using a defense mechanism of humor to suppress her terror and uncertainty with confidence and being perhaps unable/unwillingly to care about herself or others? Nah, all about T & A, and $$$

[Arcadia's legacy]

She is just there, waiting to get naked lol

Even though she shows the least amount of skin in the whole film series

[robersora]

I think they inserted her for two reasons.
1) Anno thought inserting a new pilot would be an easy way to shake up the narrative - that was before he realized how tightly woven Evas narrative actually is. Source: Somewhere in CRC 2.0
2) More money through merchandizing.

[Bagheera]

Nah, all about T & A, and $$$

Already discredited, because plot and Asuka.

[xPearse]

Already discredited, because plot and Asuka.

B-But all that porn! In any case, it's not hard to see why she was created. Or maybe you're just oblivious to that fact.

Nah, all about T & A, and $$$

Finally, another sane person around here. Beginning to think I was the only one.

[Arcadia's legacy]

B-But all that porn!

Is irrelevant for it has nothing to do with the purpose for which she was created

[pwhodges]

B-But all that porn! In any case, it's not hard to see why she was created.

Rule 34 says there is porn of everything; therefore your pointing out that there is porn of Mari proves nothing whatsoever (except your obsession with it, I suppose).

[zlink64]

How does porn work in Japan. Like does anno and co get any money from hentai manga based off their stuff?