Stuff that you would like to see in Evangelion 3.0+1.0

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Postby Joseki » Thu May 04, 2017 3:52 pm

It's not strictly related to the movie but I'd love to have until you come to me, Another Impact and Neon Genesis IMPACTS in the Blu Ray of the movie as extras, just to be able to see them in glorious full HD.
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Postby Settie » Thu May 04, 2017 5:01 pm

They did treat him poorly though, granted Misato had excuses being the captain of the Wunder and leader of WILLIE so she had responsibilities towards that. In the end though her treatment of him had pros and cons but with her intentions being good. Asuka though, during the briefing what the hell was that? All that did was further confuse and alienate him.

What i'd like to see is communication, both between characters and towards the audience to fill in some lore gaps of the NTE.

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Postby Lennik » Thu May 04, 2017 9:39 pm

For all these valid defenses of Misato (and many of them are valid), that line "From now on you'll do nothing" really did come off extremely cruel, given what Misato knew about Shinji's nature. She had to know that was the most devastating thing she could have said to someone who needs to be needed. I sincerely hope that gets addressed in some way, if not directly, then by Shinji taking that to its extreme conclusion.

I anticipate Shinji doing that anyway, since his belief in his own ability to do good is probably so shot that he'll barely speak for most of the film and will take an "I'll just screw it up if I try to help, so why bother trying?" viewpoint. And I want to see that behavior be presented as so horribly dangerous for his own mental wellbeing that Misato is forced to confront what she said and how it may have affected him.

But what I'm really looking forward to is finding out how Shinji learns how to hope and be a hero again. Because he sure as hell isn't going to get it by giving the whole world the silent treatment and hiding in corners because he can't face anybody.

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Postby Guy Nacks » Thu May 04, 2017 9:56 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Anno is an exciting filmmaker who does not take the lazy path.


Debateable with 1.0, as it's largely made up of recycled cuts, albeit freshly animated, from episodes 1-6.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby Settie » Fri May 05, 2017 12:42 am

One thing i don't want to see about Shinji finding hope is that it isn't an impersonal altruistic reason, like finding that humanity isn't as screwed as he originally thought. It would seem too messianic for the kind of character Shinji is. His reasons for piloting were always a little selfish, wanting his fathers approval (surprise Gendo is a dick) and when that didn't pan out it was about helping and protecting those closest to him so they would like him. Sure that backfired too but the inherent desires to help and protect aren't bad. So in 3.0 when he offers to pilot it's to help Asuka and because he thinks that's what Misato needs of him, in fact the reason he agrees to Kaworus' plan was so that Misato would like him again.

The hope i'm hoping he finds is that he doesn't need to be of "use" for others to like and care about him. That Misato, Asuka, Rei, Mari, Sakura and Kaji, if he's still alive, (wow there aren't a lot of good guy male figures in Shinjis life) still care about him even if he doesn't offer a tangible thing in return (like piloting), that they want him around for him not for what he offers. So if he gets into Unit-1 again it won't be for selfish reasons.

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Postby Joseki » Fri May 05, 2017 4:57 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Debateable with 1.0, as it's largely made up of recycled cuts, albeit freshly animated, from episodes 1-6.


There are some interesting changes in the movie that makes it substancially different from the original episodes: Kaworu's cryptic lines, the introduction of the fairy tale theme with the enchanted shield of virtue and Rei reading The Happy Prince, the pact between SEELE and Lilith, the various clues and hints for the viewer about Rebuilds being a sequel/loop...
The animation phase surely was mostly based on recycled assets but Anno surely didn't it for laziness.

View Original PostSettie wrote:The hope i'm hoping he finds is that he doesn't need to be of "use" for others to like and care about him. That Misato, Asuka, Rei, Mari, Sakura and Kaji, if he's still alive, (wow there aren't a lot of good guy male figures in Shinjis life) still care about him even if he doesn't offer a tangible thing in return (like piloting), that they want him around for him not for what he offers. So if he gets into Unit-1 again it won't be for selfish reasons.


Taking for granted that Shinji will pilot Eva-01 in Shin Eva the reason why he'll do it is a complex topic in my opinion.
In 2.0 each of the original three child chose to pilot an Eva on their own free will for a personal reason: Asuka offered herself as test pilot of Unit 03 because she misjudged the relationship between Rei and Shinji as romantic, she called Misato before the test and she said that a lanch with other people would be boring and even if she enjoyed having other people around her it's not her thing; Rei launched herself against Zeruel in a suicidal attack to save Shinji from ever piloting an Eva ever again; Shinji decided to save Rei no matter what would happen to the world or to himself.

On the surface those are all nice gestures but as we saw in 2.0 and 3.0 the plot (Anno) punished them hard: Asuka is now "a freak", an eternal 14 years old with an angelic infection and pretty much a loner; Rei ceased to exist and ended up destroying Shinji's life; Shinji is accused of having destroyed the world and didn't save Rei.

Keeping this in mind I think that if Anno wants to give Shinji, Asuka or Rei a closure there's going to be some sort of parallel with what they chose before.
In Shinji's case it may involve him putting his life on the line because no matter the conditions the world is in there's still beauty in it to protect, being it the people on it, the efforts that everyone made trying to make it better and the bonds he has with his friends.
This in my opinion would be the best reason for him to pilot the Eva in Shin Eva.
Last edited by Joseki on Fri May 05, 2017 6:17 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri May 05, 2017 5:50 am

Misato's speech she made at Gendo at the end of 1.0 proves that vast changes were on its way. Rewatching that scene now after seeing Eva Q, comparing it to the "You will do nothing" speech she made at Shinji, it's all really powerful storytelling, and I think it's quite bold to lull your viewers into a false sense of HD nostalgia before tossing them into completely unfamiliar territory.

And seeing as how Shin Eva is titled "3.0+1.0," I do wonder if these two different approaches to Shinji will be simultaneously addressed in the series' finale.

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Postby Bagheera » Fri May 05, 2017 1:56 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Debateable with 1.0, as it's largely made up of recycled cuts, albeit freshly animated, from episodes 1-6.


Yeah, it's all recycled, except for all the stuff that isn't.

That's a lot of stuff, btw.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri May 05, 2017 6:23 pm

I find 1.0 to be an intentional misdirection on Anno's part. It mirroring the show so closely is an intentional setup on behalf of the filmmakers to place the viewers in a false sense of security that 2.0, 3.0 & (most likely) Final completely crushes. And it worked. Before 2.0 people on here - myself included - were expecting the second film to be mostly a specific scene for scene remake of the show complete with Toji in an Eva. That "it's still essentially the same story" carried over up to the release of 3.0 which turned out to be anything but the TV reanimated. 1.0 is a film but it's also part of a larger story & by closely adhering to the show it appropriately welcomed viewers back into the world & lulled them into the false sense of security that this was the same old story as before. Plus, where it stands narratively there's very little chance Final is going to use anything from pre-existing Evangelion so that tired statement doesn't hold sway.

And by the way, a snarky one liner choosing one film out of his 30 year body of work to say "Yeah, you're wrong" is just being contrarian & petty. At least put forth an argument. This ain't twitter. You have more than 140 characters.

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Sat May 06, 2017 8:26 am

I'm hoping the Final movie is something completely different. Same message as the original, but told in a radically different way. Considering 3.0, I´ll likely be satisfied by Final in that regard.

I'm also hoping for some "wow" moments in terms of animation. Nothing against the previous Rebuild movies, but their use of CGI can leave something to be desired at times. I'd rather just not have CG at all, but I know this isn't the 90's anymore, so I just want a movie that at least ages well. Look at EoE, the use of CG is minimal and the animation is stellar, nobody can complain it hasn't aged well. 3.0 on the other hand looks awful now in some scenes and age isn't going to help it.
So yeah, I hope the CG is implemented in a better way this time around. Khara is one of the better studios when it comes to CG, so I'm going to hope for the best.

And, as a final wish, I hope that after Final is done Anno goes back to doing anime series. I know this is selfish, and movies like the ones he's making give him much more freedom, but I've always wanted to see what it would be like to see one of his works weekly.
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Postby Reichu » Sat May 06, 2017 4:47 pm

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:Look at EoE, the use of CG is minimal and the animation is stellar, nobody can complain it hasn't aged well.

Sure I can. Check out those swimming CGI Reis when they go right in front of the camera. Yikes!

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Postby Justacrazyguy » Sat May 06, 2017 4:51 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Sure I can. Check out those swimming CGI Reis when they go right in front of the camera. Yikes!


Dammit, I'd repressed that from my memory. To be honest, first time I watched EoE I hadn't even noticed there was CG and I was shocked at the presence of such a thing in the credits. Only on repeat watching did finally notice it.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon May 08, 2017 11:12 am

The super-simplistic modeling for the CGI swimming Reis went undetected by me until I bought the Renewal copy of EoE. Pretty much every small detail was covered up by the quality of the Manga Ent release.

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Postby Joseki » Mon May 08, 2017 11:42 am

View Original PostJustacrazyguy wrote:3.0 on the other hand looks awful now in some scenes and age isn't going to help it.


May I ask you which CGI scene you didn't like? Because personally the only CGI I found "too much CGI" ala Star Wars prequels was Ramiel in 1.0, but it really improved with the Ha and Q.
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Postby Bagheera » Mon May 08, 2017 12:14 pm

There are two: Wunder's initial battle with the Unit 04 drones, and the breaking of the seal over Central Dogma. Both include incredibly obvious CGI, so much so that I continue to wonder if it was intentional.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Mon May 08, 2017 12:30 pm

Isn't it common practice in modern anime for spacecraft (or in this case, aircraft) to be portrayed in CG, like in the SB Yamato reboot?
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Postby Bagheera » Mon May 08, 2017 2:02 pm

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:Isn't it common practice in modern anime for spacecraft (or in this case, aircraft) to be portrayed in CG, like in the SB Yamato reboot?


The bad CG in this case is not the Wunder or the drones, but the surface of the water when the Wunder pulled Unit 04's core blocks through. Even knowing it was pulling them through an ATF did nothing to diminish the fact that the CGI just looked weak as hell there.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon May 08, 2017 4:20 pm

I honestly didn't notice anything wrong with the ATF animation in that part of Eva Q.

I categorize "dated CGI" in the same basket as I do "dated effects," because that's precisely what they are. And if dated Willis O'Brien King Kong effects from 1933 don't bother me, despite Ray Harryhausen and Phil Tippet doing a much better job with the stop-motion art form in later years, then why should I let dated CGI bother me?

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Postby Bagheera » Mon May 08, 2017 4:25 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I honestly didn't notice anything wrong with the ATF animation in that part of Eva Q.


In both sequences the ATF effects were treated like hundreds of individual polygons that could all be flipped independently. Neither case looked like ATFs we've seen before, and I'm not at all clear on why Anno chose to go that route with those sequences.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon May 08, 2017 4:40 pm

That is a curious design choice. Not only is it an unpresidented choice in this series, but it's a choice that lengthens the animation process. It would be easier to animated ATFs breaking or weaking like they did before, but this was a deliberate choice to be different.

Not sure if the CGI's to blame, though. If the choice is that deliberate, it would have been accomplished even with traditional animation.


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