do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby lily liver » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:22 pm

as we all know, there was a huge backlash over the original ending, and EoE is what they were going to make, but couldn't because they ran out of money. do you think they still would have made it if fans were overwhelmingly fine with the tv ending?

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby NemZ » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:01 pm

They were definitely going to make something, but it's impossible to know how the original plan might have differed from what we eventually got.
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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby gatotsu911 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:31 pm

If there hadn't been the volume of demand for it that there was I imagine Anno would've been fine with just walking away from the series (and anime in general) in frustration after EoTV. He ended up doing that anyway midway through Kare Kano.
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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby Reichu » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:19 am

I distinctly remember reading somewhere that the theatrical features (and maybe the enhanced video versions, too?) happened at least in part because Anno felt he owed it to the staff. I'm terrible at keeping mental track of staff statements -- does this ring a bell for anyone else?

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby robersora » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:39 am

^
I only remember a comment, that they "just" intended to redo Episodes 25 and 26 for the LD version, because he felt that there was a missing link between 24 and 25.
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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:53 pm

I do remember that Eps 25 and 26 weren't even going to look the way they did, and that the minimalistic approach was all a result of a huge technical error that was caught way too far down the production pipeline for anyone to really fix, and yet was too fatal for the episode to be broadcasted "as is." So Anno spent a short amount of time creating exactly what we saw in EoTV.

The "animatics" presented in the Blu-rays and the Renewal DVDs always had a good chunk of the "Asuka's Final Battle" sequence in rough animation form, formatted for 4:3 televisions instead of a more theatrical widescreen presentation. And it has it listed as "Episode 25." So some really heavy animation work was done before the fatal mistake was made and the production shrank to Anno with some pencils, paper, and a still camera. And I doubt Anno was going to let that animation just sit there, unfinished. So some clean-up was probably intended long before the fans were all butt-hurt over minimalist art in a kaiju anime.

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:04 pm

I have to imagine the answer is yes.

The combined effect of their almost complete loss of a budget in the later episodes & the "perfect storm" success of the TV series necessitated SOMETHING new. Had Eva just been received like another regular show when it came out in 1995 a movie would have never happened. But, once it captured the zeitgeist like it a feature film telling a more grandiose, narratively focused & cinematic ending to the TV series is the option that makes the most sense.


The existence of Death & Rebirth is always the one I have trouble wrapping my head around it's existence.

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby Reichu » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:08 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:The existence of Death & Rebirth is always the one I have trouble wrapping my head around it's existence.

It's because they blew their deadline for the theatrical feature, so they just released what they had, with Masayuki throwing together a glorified recap to round things out.

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:30 pm

Gainax seemed really bad at keeping their productions on track back in the 90's. With this in mind, it's understandable why Khara takes things one step at a time.

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby Iuvenal » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:00 pm

Wasn't there a stronger backlash to D&R than there was to EoTV?
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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:41 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:The "animatics" presented in the Blu-rays and the Renewal DVDs always had a good chunk of the "Asuka's Final Battle" sequence in rough animation form, formatted for 4:3 televisions instead of a more theatrical widescreen presentation. And it has it listed as "Episode 25."

The Episode 25' preview was put after the video format version of episode 24 to emphasize the way that 21' to 24' were revised to lead into EoE. Since the updated episodes were only released after EoE was completed, the previews are more than likely EoE animatics that were cropped down to 4:3, rather than evidence of the TV episode 25 that never was.

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:51 pm

^ I was referring to the animatic on the special features, not the preview itself. However, you do bring up a good point. It might have been made for EoE specifically.

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:21 pm

Sorry; my crap reading comprehension there. I popped in my disc 10 to take a look. If you look closely at a lot of the layout drawings that fill the 4:3 ratio, you can actually see the letterbox framing lines (dunno the official term). It's just that the animators are almost always drawing past those lines and filling up the sheet regardless. It's typical for far more artwork to be created than ever shows up on screen. (There's a technical reason for this, isn't there?) If the animatic for a particular cut is just using key frame animation, then there's accordingly no on-screen reference for how the image will ultimately be framed.

Anyway, due to the slapped-together nature of the animatics, I wouldn't consider them an incredibly reliable means of discovering relics of the original episode 25.
EDIT: It also occurs to me that the one draft version of episode 25' that we have demonstrates many significant differences from the final. This implies that, if the originally intended TV #25 had a finished screenplay at all, very few of its visual planning materials (layouts, etc.) would have been salvageable.

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby esselfortium » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:34 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I do remember that Eps 25 and 26 weren't even going to look the way they did, and that the minimalistic approach was all a result of a huge technical error that was caught way too far down the production pipeline for anyone to really fix, and yet was too fatal for the episode to be broadcasted "as is." So Anno spent a short amount of time creating exactly what we saw in EoTV.

I've never heard this story before, but that's pretty interesting if true. Do you have a source on it?

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby NemZ » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:22 pm

Reichu wrote:It also occurs to me that the one draft version of episode 25' that we have demonstrates many significant differences from the final.


Do you have a link for that?
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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby Reichu » Thu Mar 17, 2016 6:23 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Do you have a link for that?

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Resources:End_ ... creenplays

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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby NemZ » Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:33 pm

Oh, my bad. I thought you meant 25, not 25'. Good place for a link anyway though. ^_^
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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby Dima » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:29 am

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:I've never heard this story before, but that's pretty interesting if true. Do you have a source on it?


I never heard this either. Only thing i can find on EvaWiki is this

EvaWiki wrote:The production ran so close to the airing deadline that the completed scenes used in the preview of the twenty-fifth episode had to be redesigned to work with the new ending. These episodes feature heavy use of abstract animation, flashbacks, simple line drawings, photographs and fixed image scenes with voice-over dialogue. Some critics speculated that these unconventional animation choices resulted from budget cuts, but Toshio Okada stated that they were the result of the ending being decided only three months before airing. By the end of the series, whether it be out of desperation or artistic license, episodes 25 and 26 become minimalist and introspective look at the characters with little to no direct continuation of the external action orientated story. The release of The End of Evangelion provided an alternative, animation heavy ending.
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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby Power Guido » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:51 pm

Moar liek "Anno trolling wouldn't happen if death threats wasn't sent to him" amirite?
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Re: do you think anno would have made EoE if the backlash hadn't been as bad?

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Postby FrDougal9000 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:36 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:...and that the minimalistic approach was all a result of a huge technical error that was caught way too far down the production pipeline for anyone to really fix, and yet was too fatal for the episode to be broadcasted "as is."


Exactly what was the technical error, if you don't mind me asking? I'm curious as to whether I'm missing something, so I'd just like to hear from you, FFF4.

The only thing I've heard on the subject was that one of the show's producers tried to shop the original Episode 25 around to get sponsors, and it was rejected by TV Tokyo for having content that could not be aired on such their channel (which had already gotten a fair share of complaints from episode 15 onwards). So they had to make something else at the last minute instead.

(I've gotten this information from the YT channel, TDOMMX; also known for their website Darkside Translations. I can't confirm this to be 100% true, but they come off as knowing what they're talking about. It's in the comments for this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hzjuf686oA)
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