End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Shark Knight » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:54 am

Was I the only one that felt that the end of Sadamoto's manga left wanting?

I mean it really went a long the lines of EOE with stuff that I wanted to see such as Ikari fighting the MPE but from then on it feels like it lost the message and the themes. As if a complex piece of composed music was given to someone to complete that has a different mindset and does not comprehend the mind of the original author of such piece.
Here are some of the points about it:

1. I tought that the fact that those who died prior to instrumentality not coming back was shenanigans since no one will remember them nor even know they ever existed.

2. Rei got BTFO, literally no one will remember that she existed.

3. The end of hedgehog dielma with Shinji Ikari and Asuka was none existent nor present at the end. Surely they meet there and she thanks him for saving him but after that, they probably will never see each other again as one goes throught their respective paths. This seemed like Sadamoto went throught a complete opposite tone of EOE, who's last scene reeked of understanding, intimacy and tension both emotional and sexual alike. Perfectly bringing the hedgehog dilema to an end.
Whilst Sadamoto just leaves it there, no visual meaning no nothing. A bunch of cool scenes go throught my head of how it could had ended like "leave them holding hands while they look at each other and have Shinji's monologue come to an end, have a shot of Shinji's bag with Misato's cross and end it there. Leaving it ambiguos like "do they remember each other? do they still know? what will happen to them?

4. If everything got recycled and they cant remember anything then why does Shinji still has Misato's cross?

Well that is some of the stuff that I wanted to get out of the system, I am sorry if you folks have discussed this already. :p
Also, how come Sadamoto its so hot for doing Shinji and kaworu stuff bot not when it comes to hetero stuff among Asuka and Shinji? I think he is a terrific artist and character designer tought but I dont think story telling is his strong point.
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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Moap » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:07 am

It's always been my belief that Sadamoto was a big fan or Rei, and not so much a fan of Asuka. There are interviews where he talks about how much he wants to draw Rei, and see Rei cosplayers, he doesnt seem to show the same interest in Asuka. In contrast, Anno doesn't seem to care very much for Rei as a character, saying things like she simply is the darkness lingering in our souls and leaving her entirely out of episodes because he simply forgot about her. So it figures that the two authors would give the two characters different roles in their tellings of the story.

Asuka's role in the manga compared to the anime is shockingly different. In the show its clear she's a lead character and takes a central role next to Shinji from the moment she appears in the show. In contrast, Asuka appears even later in the manga, and is removed from the story entirely after losing to Arael save for later popping up to fight the MPE's and to be saved by Shinji. When I read the manga I also feel like theres no mutual attraction between Asuka and Shinji like there is in the show, most of the teasing scenes between them like Asuka explaining thermal expansion with her breasts and the kiss never happen. Asuka in the manga is almost dehumanized as well when Sadamoto has her explain that she never had a father, a much different dynamic than her father leaving her and her mother early on. Reading the last two books of the manga, all of Asukas moments in third impact are gone and replaced with Rei. In the manga, Asuka is a side character.

I also felt an almost romantic tone between Rei and Shinji during some scenes of third impact in the manga that I found to be a bit out of place and disturbing, but perhaps I was reading too much into things, it certainly seems like Sadamoto is very eager to have a romance between Shinji and some one besides Asuka. I wouldn't say having Rei and Kaworu displace Asuka would makes the manga worse, but like you said, Shinji not having some one to resolve his hedgehog dilemma with certainly does. Sadamoto's final scene in comparison to the final scene of EoE is laughable to me. I found it to be shallow and commercial, I felt like the final chapter of the manga was an advertisement for the rebuild movies, and contained no resolutions.

I love your analogy of Sadamoto not understanding the mind of the original author, I completely agree. Whereas it seems Sadamoto idealizes Rei and Kaworu, I have a feeling Sadamoto didn't understand Asuka at all and just saw her as a bitchy teenage girl.

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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby jcmoorehead » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:38 am

I think as with anything Evangelion related it comes down to interpretation although Sadamato doesn't leave us with as much of a blank canvas for that as Anno does with EoE. I did like the manga but I did find the ending to be a bit strange.

The whole reset thing with traces of the previous world within it seemed quite strange. I do wonder if the characters do have the capability to remember that which happened before at any one point or not. Shinji has a moment where he feels he has seen Asuka before, the MPEva's exist in the world and Misato's cross is there. It makes me wonder if they can remember and eventually will.

Admittedly I do think it is a shame that they went through all that, Shinji and Asuka saving the world for them to not remember it. It's the one thing I don't really like about it. As much pain as it might have caused for them, they both triumphed and that should be something they remember.

I did however find the ending scene between Asuka and Shinji to be quite sweet. Unlike yourself I saw that as Sadamato's way of saying that these characters will see each other again. They will brought together in some way.

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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:52 am

Copied from a post I made in another thread ten days ago:

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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:41 pm

View Original PostShark Knight wrote:Was I the only one that felt that the end of Sadamoto's manga left wanting?
The whole thing, quite frankly. When I got into Eva ('03-'04), I had expected the manga to have completed, and picked it up to see how it addressed the ending. Vol 7 was the most recently published in English at that point, but as it ended with Kaworu being introduced, I expected Vol 8 to conclude the series. The notion that it might take more than a decade with a totally erratic schedule to do another half-dozen volumes never occurred to me.

Given the almost 20 years it took and the evident lack of enthusiasm to continue with it, it's clear Sadamoto had no real idea of where he was going with the story, so leaving us with something that may have good art, but is essentially hollow.
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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Reichu » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:07 pm

View Original PostShark Knight wrote:Also, how come Sadamoto its so hot for doing Shinji and kaworu stuff

Because Sadamoto is hot for Kaworu.

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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Shark Knight » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:39 pm

View Original PostMoap wrote:
SPOILER: Show
It's always been my belief that Sadamoto was a big fan or Rei, and not so much a fan of Asuka. There are interviews where he talks about how much he wants to draw Rei, and see Rei cosplayers, he doesnt seem to show the same interest in Asuka. In contrast, Anno doesn't seem to care very much for Rei as a character, saying things like she simply is the darkness lingering in our souls and leaving her entirely out of episodes because he simply forgot about her. So it figures that the two authors would give the two characters different roles in their tellings of the story.

Asuka's role in the manga compared to the anime is shockingly different. In the show its clear she's a lead character and takes a central role next to Shinji from the moment she appears in the show. In contrast, Asuka appears even later in the manga, and is removed from the story entirely after losing to Arael save for later popping up to fight the MPE's and to be saved by Shinji. When I read the manga I also feel like theres no mutual attraction between Asuka and Shinji like there is in the show, most of the teasing scenes between them like Asuka explaining thermal expansion with her breasts and the kiss never happen. Asuka in the manga is almost dehumanized as well when Sadamoto has her explain that she never had a father, a much different dynamic than her father leaving her and her mother early on. Reading the last two books of the manga, all of Asukas moments in third impact are gone and replaced with Rei. In the manga, Asuka is a side character.

I also felt an almost romantic tone between Rei and Shinji during some scenes of third impact in the manga that I found to be a bit out of place and disturbing, but perhaps I was reading too much into things, it certainly seems like Sadamoto is very eager to have a romance between Shinji and some one besides Asuka. I wouldn't say having Rei and Kaworu displace Asuka would makes the manga worse, but like you said, Shinji not having some one to resolve his hedgehog dilemma with certainly does. Sadamoto's final scene in comparison to the final scene of EoE is laughable to me. I found it to be shallow and commercial, I felt like the final chapter of the manga was an advertisement for the rebuild movies, and contained no resolutions.

I love your analogy of Sadamoto not understanding the mind of the original author, I completely agree. Whereas it seems Sadamoto idealizes Rei and Kaworu, I have a feeling Sadamoto didn't understand Asuka at all and just saw her as a bitchy teenage girl.


I couldnt agree with you more, I honestly didnt really like the manga. It felt like a product made out of compromise rather than passion.


View Original PostReichu wrote:Because Sadamoto is hot for Kaworu.

Yeah, I often wonder if these people are closet gays or something... I mean why is there so much Yaoi merch with Kaworu and Shinji yet most of the straight one featuring Asuka and Shinji it's fan made or none existant. Then you have the Japanese people wondering why the low birth rates.
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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Reichu » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:54 pm

View Original PostShark Knight wrote:Yeah, I often wonder if these people are closet gays or something...

It's not "closet" if he admits it right in the manga! He's probably just bicurious or something. Nothing wrong with that.

Then you have the Japanese people wondering why the low birth rates.

It would be more accurate to say that trends in Japanese media and low birth rates ultimately trace back to the same pool of social woes, rather than one being responsible for the other...

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Postby Tabby » Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:06 am

The entire canon manga felt like a giant compromise, only to ultimately be rather fruitless or at least pointless.

It felt that we gave up Asuka's characterization in favor of Rei, more Shinji and Kaworu scenes at the cost of the characters coming off as even remotely likable, etc.. Some things ended up improved, most things equalled or fell short of the original.

Not to say the manga wasn't good, but it wasn't great. For some reason the ending left me cold, maybe because I grew up with the series and didn't even read the manga until it was complete. I felt a little cheated. But then again, Sadamoto went and ruined Shinji for me by making him into a jerk. Sure, the art is pretty, but the TV series had something else about it. Changing characters' canon personalities didn't help my thoughts at the end, either.

In my opinion, if you love Rei (who doesn't?) this manga is of more value, aside from her boot at the end. Aside from her and Yui, I wouldn't consider it any kind of improvement.

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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Shark Knight » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:12 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:It's not "closet" if he admits it right in the manga! He's probably just bicurious or something. Nothing wrong with that.
So Sadamoto is gay/bicurious?

I understand Shinji feeling what he did with Kaworu. I have known cases that boys at that age are sometimes bicurious because their hormones are beggining to bloom and stuff. In this case my interpetation is that Shinji met someone really nice to him, he connected instantly and even had this awkward feel that some early teenage boys tend to have, they dont know exactly what they are but they can even be confused with attraction "without actually being gay"
It would be more accurate to say that trends in Japanese media and low birth rates ultimately trace back to the same pool of social woes, rather than one being responsible for the other...

Still shouldnt the media should be pushing for men to stop being frikking herbivores? Isnt this Yaoi promotion cattering to the same fanbase that Anno hates?
I should do another thread to talk about that in more detail.

I dont know really know but of one thing I am certian. I did not like Sadamoto's manga, it is pretty looking but ultimately it is just a promotion material and I would not recommend it. Instead I would just say "just watch the anime instead, it was concieved first after all"
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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Bagheera » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:58 am

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Given the almost 20 years it took and the evident lack of enthusiasm to continue with it, it's clear Sadamoto had no real idea of where he was going with the story, so leaving us with something that may have good art, but is essentially hollow.


That is a perfect summary of my take on the matter.
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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:03 am

NTE: "This is amazing!"
NGE: "This is the best show ever! OMG!!!"
EoE: "How is this movie this good???"
Manga: "Eh. It's aright, I guess."

I mean, the manga was nice and all, and I did find its alternate take on Instrumentality interesting, but it's not the kind of Eva that I appreciate. (That being said, I own the manga complete set.)

Honestly, for writing as good as NGE in manga format, I find myself going to Hayao Miyazaki's Naussica manga, or Yu Aida's Gunslinger Girl manga. Yeah, I know it's not Eva. But it's some damn fine writing and some beautiful art to go with it. Nausicaa's got the giant monsters, even, and Gunslinger Girl has some awesome fight scenes and goes to some pretty dark places before concluding right where it needs to conclude. Both of which have some amazing character writing as well. Just check them out.

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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby FullMetalBiscuit » Mon Mar 14, 2016 5:03 pm

I personally just view Sadamoto's ending as the 'happy ending' version of EoE. It's a nice deviation from EoE. But then again I really enjoyed the manga, which I know some didn't. I think of it like the Rebuilds and try not to compare it to NGE too much and just enjoy it as it's own thing.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:58 pm

^ I mean, I enjoyed it too, just not nearly as much as any of Anno's takes on Evangelion. Over all, the writing in Sadamoto's manga isn't all that powerful. I don't need to compare it to the TV show to know that. I just need to have read the manga to know that.

Though, Sadamoto did have some kick-ass ideas floating around in his take on Eva. Gendo deploying an AT Field using Adam's embryonic implant in his hand is pretty epic no matter what you're comparing the manga to. I just didn't feel for the characters as much as I would have liked.

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Postby Eliaskar » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:30 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:^ I mean, I enjoyed it too, just not nearly as much as any of Anno's takes on Evangelion. Over all, the writing in Sadamoto's manga isn't all that powerful. I don't need to compare it to the TV show to know that. I just need to have read the manga to know that.

Though, Sadamoto did have some kick-ass ideas floating around in his take on Eva. Gendo deploying an AT Field using Adam's embryonic implant in his hand is pretty epic no matter what you're comparing the manga to. I just didn't feel for the characters as much as I would have liked.

Speaking of Gendo, I found Sadamoto's take on him to be a little odd to be honest. He made him directly hostile to Shinji by the end, as opposed to simply apathetic and avoidant. The fact that he wrote that Gendo basically hates the shit out of Shinji because he took away Yui's attention from him, strikes me as too out there, personally.

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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:58 am

^ And that's an example of the character writing in Sadamoto's manga being sub-par. His Eva character's aren't conflicted, they're just one-note.

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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Reichu » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:33 am

View Original PostFullMetalBiscuit wrote:I personally just view Sadamoto's ending as the 'happy ending' version of EoE. It's a nice deviation from EoE.

He gets to avoid ending on an EoE-like note because he conveniently neglects to show what actually happens to anyone right after the Impact. Instead, we get a weird line from Yui implying that Shinji has an eternity of reincarnation ahead of him. Then the story completely ditches the Shinji that it had been following, never divulging his fate, and skips some indeterminate period of time into the future to some Shinji reincarnation. Of course, he looks exactly the same, and bumps into reincarnations of other characters who also somehow look exactly the same, which lulls the reader into a false sense of security that maybe these are the same people after all, when, really, they're complete strangers.

Epilogue "Shinji" is indicated, via callback to the manga's beginning, to be at least somewhat better adjusted than his predecessor. Apparently what the audience should take from this is that peace of mind and happiness are not attainable in this life -- if they were, surely we would have been allowed to see "our" Shinji reap the benefits, and not just some doppelganger. I suppose we should all just give up and wait until our souls has been recycled several times. Maybe we'll get lucky and become incrementally less screwed up or something.

Thanks for the helpful insight, Sadamoto.

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Postby Ray » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:41 pm

Personally, I wish Sadamoto had deviated further from the plot of the Anime than he did. It's too different to be Anno's Eva, but not unique enough to be Sadamoto's Eva. He could have done what rebuild did and pull a huge plot twist around the time Touji was killed or Shinji was trapped in Unit 01, but he didn't and it just becomes a watered down less intense version of the original. Diet-Eva as it were.
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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby pwhodges » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:52 pm

I guess not many people find my take on this convincing. Oh well...
View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Copied from a post I made in another thread ten days ago:

I imagine some kind of multiverse in which every possible outcome exists in a sort of quantum state, and our consciousness follows and instantiates one particular path; but at the end, Shinji is able, through his understanding, to flip his consciousness across to a different path which then becomes his reality.
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Re: End of the manga "Sadamoto's manga"

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Postby Reichu » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:38 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:I guess not many people find my take on this convincing.

I'm honestly not sure what it's even supposed to mean or what it has to do with what's actually in the manga.


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