Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:29 pm

@Reichu @silvermoonlight: I'm assuming that my post had led some people into believing that I might be some crazed lunatic? Guess I should've seen that coming.
While I do appreciate some of those nice little videos, I just want to point out that I'm not some crazy person (maybe a little, but we all have our moments). I'm actually a pretty sane person.

It's true that the film did made me feel a little riled up, but not to a point of actually letting out on someone. I kept most of that inside my head, where I think it's safe to unlease some level of fury on a fictional character. If Misato and Asuka want to get Shinji to cooperate, they're gonna have to put aside thier anger towards him and get him to see reason. Otherwise, there's gonna be hell to pay.

As for that little video I linked in my post, that was just something I wanted to add for a while now, which kinda reflects my emotion towards Misato, Asuka, and probably others aboard the Wunder. Guess it was a little much, but it's pretty much true.

I just hope things will work out in the next film. But if Shinji doesn't get the happiness he's looking for, or if he ends up dying(wether from some sort of heroic sacrifice or as a casualty in Battle), well then, all I can say is that it's all on Misato and Asuka, and Gendo most definitely.

Now, I like to close with the words of Agent Washington from Red vs Blue.
SPOILER: Show
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Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go blow up this dead body."~Agent Washington
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:56 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:@silvermoonlight: I'm assuming that my post had led some people into believing that I might be some crazed lunatic? Guess I should've seen that coming.[/spoiler]


No not all I just saw that you were unhappy and wanted to help you wind down at no point did I think you were a crazy lunatic I just felt that you were passionate about the topic and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Plus its not wrong to get mad at a series or film as media can sometimes gives its audience really bad endings or leave them hanging in ways that just piss people off and make them feel like they have been utterly cheated.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Reichu » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:36 am

CT: It doesn't really take that much imagination to see why Misato and Asuka act the way they do. Fantasizing about horrible things happening to them really misses the point. HORRIBLE THINGS HAVE BEEN HAPPENING TO THEM for fourteen whole years -- and you're cross because they aren't being enthusiastically kind and gentle to the kid partly responsible for their current predicament, who's ALSO -- to rub the salt in deeper -- been sleeping out the whole thing in blissful obliviousness? Judging from your personality -- one that seems to lean fast and hard toward disproportionate retribution for perceived slights -- if it was you in Misato's shoes, you would have just blown Shinji up before he was out of range and been done with it. Or, better, just had him destroyed before his identity was confirmed. Then you and Asuka would have high-fived, I guess.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:33 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:I think someone should either beat the living the living crap out of them, or find some way to off them. And it should be done by Shinji's hand, considering what they did to him.

People who want to see horrible things happen to Misato and Asuka are usually more clever about it expressing that desire. Instead of stating, "I want to see horrible things happen to Misato and Asuka," they simply say "I would like to see a movie that explores the 14-year time gap between 2.22 and 3.33. Such horrible things must have happened to Misato and Asuka during that time."

Personally, I'm simply cool with a sequel that has some exposition. Shin Godzilla proves that Anno is a master at characterizing and personifying expositional dialogue.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Cybermat47 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:52 am

I think that everyone in 3.0 was acting like most people would under those circumstances. It seems sudden to us, and to Shinji, but to Wille, it's been 14 years of terror and misery thanks to Shinji. N3I was an accident, yes, butit was an accident that happened because of Shinji. And the people in Wille have suffered for the same amount of time Shinji has been alive.

Shinji and Wille will have to work together, undoubtedly, and I think that this is where much of the drama in 3.0+1.0 will come from. Can Wille bring themselves to trust Shinji after N3I? Can Shinji trust himself?

Misato and Asuka have certainly shown that they still harbour positive feelings for Shinji. Both were given opportunities and justifications to kill him - both of them let him live, with Asuka even helping him.

Mari seems to be holding out hope for him as well - she too was able and justified to kill Shinji, but let him live.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Joseki » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:17 am

Mari seemed to have no problems at all with Rei Q and Shinji, she was casually talking to them trying to convince them to do the right thing.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Sachi » Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:48 am

Mari seems to be the very definition of carefree. She takes things in stride, and rolls with the punches.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Lennik » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:29 pm

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:I think someone should either beat the living the living crap out of them, or find some way to off them. And it should be done by Shinji's hand, considering what they did to him.

:headbeat:
:chainsaw:
:shoot2kill:


They didn't do anything to him. In fact, they spared/saved his life after preventing him from screwing up even harder than he already had.

And why the hell would Shinji want to hurt them? That's going to be the last thing on his mind. He's not a prick.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby pwhodges » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:40 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:And why the hell would Shinji want to hurt them? That's going to be the last thing on his mind. He's not a prick.

Just so; and even when Asuka is calling him pretty much exactly that, he is doing his best to play a purely defensive game against her - she loses because of her battery failure, not because of what Shinji did to her.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Settie » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:38 pm

In a way I'd say Misato and Asuka already received the consequences of their actions in 3,0, by alienating Shinji it allowed Gendo to easily sway him and further his goals, the complete opposite of what Willie would want. That's "punishment' enough, the knowledge that in an indirect way they helped Gendo.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:44 pm

View Original PostSettie wrote:In a way I'd say Misato and Asuka already received the consequences of their actions in 3,0, by alienating Shinji it allowed Gendo to easily sway him and further his goals, the complete opposite of what Willie would want. That's "punishment' enough, the knowledge that in an indirect way they helped Gendo.

I don't know, I think they could use a little more. Maybe something more physical to say the least.
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Postby Settie » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:07 pm

^ Why though? their actions were cold and a little cruel but not enough to justify a physical consequence to themselves. Asuka lost her eva and Misato temporarily lost the use of unit-2/8, isn't that enough physical consequence?

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby C.T.1290 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:03 pm

View Original PostSettie wrote:^ Why though? their actions were cold and a little cruel but not enough to justify a physical consequence to themselves. Asuka lost her eva and Misato temporarily lost the use of unit-2/8, isn't that enough physical consequence?

Well, not quite enough to leave me with some sense of satisfaction.

Twisted, I know.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:26 am

View Original PostC.T.1290 wrote:I don't know, I think they could use a little more. Maybe something more physical to say the least.


Just for curiosity, is there a reason you always want everyone to get spanked?


Like sure they treated him like crap, I think even saying that they 'helped' him is going too far if one keeps context in mind ( Also Emotional meltdown reactions aren't conscious decisions & not hating someone quite enough to kill them in cold blood doesn't equal loving them)
The actions themselves are really not ok, but actions happen in context and that context is 14 years of apocalyptic hell compared to which the few months or so that they knew Shinji as a person are a fart. Under these circumstances you can't really say that these actions, as bad as they are & as much as they hurt Shinji, and as much as he didn't deserve it (so get got played by Gendo. So did everyone, he was just the designated triggerpiece. He didn't even know this could happen.) under these circumstances they don't make Misato & co bad people who deserve punishment. They're only realistic.
It's easy to be a saint in paradise but Misato & Asuka currently live in Hell... and have been the last thing standing beyond humanity & annihilation for years. They're by all means heroes, anti-heroes perhaps, but, from what we see WILLE's a lively organization & a star of hope and Misato is very much the creative & daring leader we knew her as. If you're just about any non-Shinji person, WILLE is great.

Ultimately all that is besides the point tho: Regardless of how one does or doesn't read their actions, what would "punishment" solve, and what would it do for Shinji? How's such "an eye for an eye" logic remotely constructive? There's few humans left, anything WILLE has is a valuable ressource & insisting on "payment" won't help Shinji win back their respect. Wether he should have to has little bearing on wether he will have to if he dicedes that his goal is to get along with them.

It's kinda all in this exchange:

Shinji: "But I knew nothing about this, I was just trying to save Ayanami! I had nothing to do with this!"
Kaworu: "That may well be but that's not how the Lillim see it"

IThe fact that this clusterfuck happened and that they blame him is a reality he has to deal with somehow; To that effect his side of the story is kinda secondary at first.


...As for Shinji, I doubt he blames them after he saw the city. He was understandably confused & frustrated but at this point he mainly blames himself. Not that when they descend to terminal dogma he's like "all of Misato & the others' hard work went to waste..." when he beholds the state of Lillith. He tried to talk with Asuka & the most he did was throw her out of range; Though to some extent it was a mutual communication fail on all fronts.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby The Cruel » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:14 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Just for curiosity, is there a reason you always want everyone to get spanked?


Like sure they treated him like crap, I think even saying that they 'helped' him is going too far if one keeps context in mind ( Also Emotional meltdown reactions aren't conscious decisions & not hating someone quite enough to kill them in cold blood doesn't equal loving them)
The actions themselves are really not ok, but actions happen in context and that context is 14 years of apocalyptic hell compared to which the few months or so that they knew Shinji as a person are a fart. Under these circumstances you can't really say that these actions, as bad as they are & as much as they hurt Shinji, and as much as he didn't deserve it (so get got played by Gendo. So did everyone, he was just the designated triggerpiece. He didn't even know this could happen.) under these circumstances they don't make Misato & co bad people who deserve punishment. They're only realistic.
It's easy to be a saint in paradise but Misato & Asuka currently live in Hell... and have been the last thing standing beyond humanity & annihilation for years. They're by all means heroes, anti-heroes perhaps, but, from what we see WILLE's a lively organization & a star of hope and Misato is very much the creative & daring leader we knew her as. If you're just about any non-Shinji person, WILLE is great.

Ultimately all that is besides the point tho: Regardless of how one does or doesn't read their actions, what would "punishment" solve, and what would it do for Shinji? How's such "an eye for an eye" logic remotely constructive? There's few humans left, anything WILLE has is a valuable ressource & insisting on "payment" won't help Shinji win back their respect. Wether he should have to has little bearing on wether he will have to if he dicedes that his goal is to get along with them.

It's kinda all in this exchange:

Shinji: "But I knew nothing about this, I was just trying to save Ayanami! I had nothing to do with this!"
Kaworu: "That may well be but that's not how the Lillim see it"

IThe fact that this clusterfuck happened and that they blame him is a reality he has to deal with somehow; To that effect his side of the story is kinda secondary at first.


...As for Shinji, I doubt he blames them after he saw the city. He was understandably confused & frustrated but at this point he mainly blames himself. Not that when they descend to terminal dogma he's like "all of Misato & the others' hard work went to waste..." when he beholds the state of Lillith. He tried to talk with Asuka & the most he did was throw her out of range; Though to some extent it was a mutual communication fail on all fronts.


What went wrong between Shinji, Asuka and Misato in 3.0 isn't any different from what happened in NGE and EoE. But this doesn't make it bearable. I think Asuka and Misato weren't sure what to think and feel of him anymore after all what they suffered because of him. And Shinji is scared and angered as hell from them now. They failed to sort this out with each other properly and let things happen the way they did. They failed in what they believed was right to do. They were blinded by their fears and couldn't see through their act. But now this all doesn't matter anymore. What 'll happen then is up to them and there won't be a way back. Then it's over.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:32 am

View Original PostThe Cruel wrote:What went wrong between Shinji, Asuka and Misato in 3.0 isn't any different from what happened in NGE and EoE. But this doesn't make it bearable. I think Asuka and Misato weren't sure what to think and feel of him anymore after all what they suffered because of him. And Shinji is scared and angered as hell from them now. They failed to sort this out with each other properly and let things happen the way they did. They failed in what they believed was right to do. They were blinded by their fears and couldn't see through their act. But now this all doesn't matter anymore. What 'll happen then is up to them and there won't be a way back. Then it's over.



^Basically this yeah. Same old communication fail, same ol "The World is in too much shit to care about collateral damage" situation amped up to eleven though the sheer heavyness of the amped stakes (14 years! Most of the Biosphere!) amps up the pain factor. Everyone's pushed to desperation by the hugeness of what rests on their shoulders or at least they were up until whatever happens in final.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Settie » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:34 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:It's kinda all in this exchange:

Shinji: "But I knew nothing about this, I was just trying to save Ayanami! I had nothing to do with this!"
Kaworu: "That may well be but that's not how the Lillim see it"




This reminds me of something that's been bugging me for a while. How informed is the general populace of Q in regards to the impacts and who bears responsibility. When Shinji mentions getting into an eva again all the newbie crew members give him the stink eye, and the movie makes an effort to mention that many of the Wunder crew are untrained civilians. Yet neither Misato nor Asuka outright blame him for the current state of the world, Asuka is angry at Shinji but the reason behind isn't said, the closest Misato gets is when the choker is being explained as a symbol of his punishment and their distrust of him (him being an impact trigger and all). Kaworu is vague and omits information but he never outright lies, he says Shinji is the catalyst of the world he sees which while not 100% true isn't false either.

It brings potential new light to a line Misato tells Shinji right after the mark-9 makes its best interpretation of the kool-aid man on the Wunders hull. She tells him that Shinji is under their protection, but that begs the question of protection from who? Nerv and Gendo, while possible, they weren't expecting Gendo to come for Shinji specifically. If not from Gendo then perhaps the rest of the world that sees Shinji as culpable as his father for the impacts that happened. Misato being there for N3i and 3i would know better but with Shinji being gone it wouldn't make a difference if the world did blame him in regards to Willies mission. That is until he came back.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby OtherNigel » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:37 am

I wouldn't say I hate it. It depressed me, and Misato and the others' coldness towards Shinji broke my heart, but I don't hate it.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Zoop » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:57 am

Hmm, thanks Settie, that was really insightful. 3.33 always bugged me about how Shinji is being treated, it doesn't seem fair despite everything we know / see. But the way you explained it, it makes perfect sense.

Wille (and thus Misato) might even have used Shinji as a scapegoat, wether it was all his fault or not.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Lennik » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:19 pm

The funny thing about accusing Wille of using Shinji as a scapegoat is that the only one in the movie who uses Shinji as a scapegoat is Kaworu.


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