Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:34 pm

View Original PostDirector Black wrote:Using Evangelion quotes to shut the annoying part of the fanbase down. Brilliant.

The plea for citations applies equally as well to your own second to last post, mind...! Namely, the whole legend of the otaku-hating director, used as a blunt rhetorical instrument by anime fans to e.g. belittle fellow fans and/or themselves because there's apparently no better way to make the same argument without resorting to a virtual god-figure. You may have been going for a different or variant effect in your own post, but the overall practice remains a lazy one IMO.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:02 am

View Original PostGlor wrote:Eva Q, pls stahp.

But does there really need to be a excessive amount of it just to count as fanservice? Asuka being forever 14 feels like it was done less to add something new and interesting to Eva and more to let fans keep the image of their teenage waifu and sell more Asuka-variant merchandise.

It doesn't need to be excessive, it just needs to be there is all I'm saying. Teen body Asuka doesn't do anything with her body that draws attention to it, and the tasks that she completes can easily be accomplished by an adult body Asuka. No one in the series other than her mentions her body, not even as a "perk" or as being "cute." The tone throughout the first 20 minutes that include Asuka (but hardly focus on her) is full of characters seeming to feel "These are the cards we were dealt, and it all sucks." There isn't even a forced smile among these characters. I've never seen it as fanservice and probably never will.

Edit: Maybe Asuka's eyepatch can be considered fanservice, but only in the sense that it's a call-back to other kaiju genre films.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Quiddity » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:56 pm

4 years after its release I finally saw this for the first time.

I didn't like it at all early in the movie, it was just a confusing mess to me. But once I was around 20 or so minutes in I enjoyed it the rest of the way, especially once Shinji returned to Nerv.

What I enjoyed the most was probably the fact that I had no idea what was going to happen (only thing I was spoiled for was the time skip, and I think anyone watching even first timers could tell that Kaworu's head was going to explode). Given that I was significantly spoiled even for my first viewing of Eva it was great to actually be able to watch Eva material in that fashion.

Speaking of said timeskip, I don't really get the point of it. Why not make it a year? 6 months?

I didn't really like the way Rei came off, but probably need more viewings to get a more definitive opinion on how I feel about her role in the film.

Things were way too spastic or crowded at times too such that it was hard to tell what was exactly going on.

Anyway, overall nowhere as bad as I expected it to be given the reputation. Looking forward to the last one.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:44 am

^ I think the 14 years was done to make it more plausible that Misato would have been able to establish and grow Wille to the point at which she had. If it has been only 6 months, I would have found the presence of Wille as either unbelievable, or as evidence of an alternate dimension or alternate reality.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:39 am

Skipping ahead 14 years also works with the idea that "Eva is a story that repeats." 1.0: 14 year old Shinji is dragged into the strange world of Nerv and the Evas. After another 14 years, he's reborn from Unit 01 and enters another strange world far removed from the one he knew where everything is turned upside down. And with the passage of so much time, Third Impact has become to the current generation what Second Impact was to Misato's.

Hey, wait a second...
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Director Black » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:36 am

^...The more you watch, the more you get rewarded.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:15 am

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:Skipping ahead 14 years also works with the idea that "Eva is a story that repeats." 1.0: 14 year old Shinji is dragged into the strange world of Nerv and the Evas. After another 14 years, he's reborn from Unit 01 and enters another strange world far removed from the one he knew where everything is turned upside down. And with the passage of so much time, Third Impact has become to the current generation what Second Impact was to Misato's.

Hey, wait a second...
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby StrokeMeGoat » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:19 pm

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:Skipping ahead 14 years also works with the idea that "Eva is a story that repeats." 1.0: 14 year old Shinji is dragged into the strange world of Nerv and the Evas. After another 14 years, he's reborn from Unit 01 and enters another strange world far removed from the one he knew where everything is turned upside down.

I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but if you take the release dates of 3.0 and EOE, if you include the fact that 3.0 was delayed (pretty much all have been delayed, though obviously not to the extent of 3.0+1.0), the difference in time is 14 years. The release date of EOE in Japan was in 1997, and 3.0's release date in Japan was in 2012. Without taking the delay into account (and honestly, I don't remember if the original release date was going to be in 2011, which would make the math nice and neat, but it's close enough), 15 years have passed since the final release of anything regarding NGETV. If we assume 3.0s target release date was originally poised for 2011, 14 years had passed.

Given the consensus about what each film was supposed to "do" or represent (1.0 - Close to carbon copy meant to garner interest and get old fans excited/generate hype, 2.0 - Evangelion as it would be if it were a normal/pandering/wish fulfillment anime with action and characters not being so flawed and overall being badass, 3.0 - A return to form), 3.33 was meant to bring us into the present. It was old style Evangelion thematically, but for a new age. When you consider the fact that NGETV was meant to be a deconstruction of not just the Mecha Genre, but just about everything, and it was meant to get Otaku and the otherwise infantile yet adult populace to grow up and face reality. He knew he already had old die-hard fans, whether they got the message or it went completely over their heads, so the first two movies would do nothing more than generate discussion among the active community of fans. The biggest accomplishment, though, was that he lulled an entirely new generation into getting into the series, all with similar mental instability issues and infantile attitudes and lifestyles. With 3.33, he was able to try and send the same message again, albeit in a different way.

And again, for those who despised 3.33 (a majority of whom are old fans of the original series, I feel I can say with confidence), it simply generates that much more attention--especially since he made such a huge asspull with the 14 year time skip and something entirely new. Now old fans practically need to see 3.0+1.0 for some kind of closure (I like 3.33 a lot, but I, for instance, nearly repress the memory that Unit-02' has a 777 mode and goes all transformer; I also watched a few eps of the original series when I was 12, then the whole thing when I was 14 a few times over, and even now that I'm 25 I still rewatch NGETV). People who started on Rebuild and either haven't seen the original TV anime or watched it after seeing 3.33 are probably wondering what'll happen just as much, but they got a fresh new experience that works on its own. Meanwhile, old fans got a fresh new experience that tries to reinforce the same message Anno had, but hitting them in the face with it. If they didn't get it the first time, maybe the discussion generated by the sheer amount of mystery involved with 3.33 will get them to see what someone has written up about it, which details his intended message.

Lastly, I think some of the sci-fi appeal was lost a bit because 2015 is now past, when previously it was nearly 20 years in the future. Bumping the later acts by 14 years gives it some more of the futuristic themes he might've felt were important in the past. Also, I don't know if it has anything to do with anything, maybe it's just a coincidence, but Ghost in the Shell takes place in 2029, just like 3.33. Maybe it's a minor reference some how.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:24 pm

The future war in Terminator is also in 2029...
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:03 pm

View Original PostStrokeMeGoat wrote:I don't know if it's already been mentioned, but if you take the release dates of 3.0 and EOE, if you include the fact that 3.0 was delayed (pretty much all have been delayed, though obviously not to the extent of 3.0+1.0), the difference in time is 14 years. The release date of EOE in Japan was in 1997, and 3.0's release date in Japan was in 2012. Without taking the delay into account (and honestly, I don't remember if the original release date was going to be in 2011, which would make the math nice and neat, but it's close enough), 15 years have passed since the final release of anything regarding NGETV. If we assume 3.0s target release date was originally poised for 2011, 14 years had passed.


I've never seen that before, but what a neat observation! I don't think they ever set a release date for 2011 but that is when they started teasing it. Close enough! :kaos_victory:

I think the "consensus" regarding each movie shows the divide in the audience's perception of Eva vs what actually goes on, and 2.0 is where that this really comes to a head. Like you said, it's viewed as the lighter, happier, "pandering" Eva, but many of those aspects were already present in the original. Shinji having a spine? That was there in the original Eva. He jumped into a volcano to save Asuka's life and begged Gendo to let him fight the 15th and 16th Angels, but for some reason people just think of the times he ran away. The fluffier slice-of-life stuff makes up less than half of the movie and it's usually juxtaposed against something horrific, like the field trip with Kaji being mixed with Tabgha moon base, the graves on the shore and the Second Impact flashback. At the end, Shinji basically accepts Instrumentality for himself, which should set off alarms for anyone familiar with Evangelion.

I agree that 3.0 has a message about facing the harshness of reality but I think it and the end of 2.0 can also be read as a response to the all-powerful self insert wish fulfillment protagonist that has become more common in anime of late while still keeping true to the themes of Eva. In particular, it feels like a response to Big Order, which features a selfish main character with the power to bend reality to his will. Throughout the course of the series, he runs roughshod over the supporting cast to get what he wants and they can't do anything to stop him. It even starts with a huge calamity that he's blamed for. I don't think it was since 3.0 was well intro production when Big Order started serialization, but it's downright eerie when you compare the two.

A lot of people went into 3.0 with the expectation that it would continue the not-as-dark approach that 2.0 was thought to have and what they got instead was the other side of the Hedgehog's Dilemma. If you flail around with no regard for others, you're going to poke them with your spines, and you are going to get poked back in return. And here I think Anno predicted the reactions that certain Eva fans were going to have and used Shinji to comment on that group of fans as well as the people who run from reality. Compare Shinji's reactions to some of the backlash against the movie. There's quite a bit of overlap, I find. The message is similar to the original, but it's been revised with 20 years of experience and expanded to include the Eva fans themselves now. One of the messages directed at Shinji could very well be directed at the audience. "You can be happy without Eva. You don't need it. It's okay to move on."

3.0 is a lot like the end of the TV series. Not because it's dark, but because it confuses the hell out of people. There's a narrative arc going on and some character arcs are resolved but there is a truckload of stuff that wasn't addressed or resolved until End of Evangelion came out and gave it more context. Even now I find the reaction to the original TV ending is mixed but it's not held against the work as a whole because EoE exists, and I predict 3.0 will be viewed in much the same regard once it gets the same treatment from 3.0+1.0.

Yeah, the original Eva is kind of a weird period piece now. It was set 20 years in the future, but now that we've caught up to it, the non-Eva technology is trapped about 20 years in the past. :lol:
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:30 pm

You guys truly didn't catch on to the 14 year time skip in our reality and theirs?
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:33 pm

I don't know about you, but I was actually living those fourteen years and don't consider them a "time skip". :p
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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:53 pm

God bless your adorableness LOL there was a time skip between eoe and 3.0.
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Postby CommanderFish » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:09 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Pure poetry.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:33 am

You may not be wrong Commander fish.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby SawItAtAge10 » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:39 am

View Original PostCommanderFish wrote:Mari is the key to all of this.


No, Nebakanezar is the key :lol:
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:26 am

I really wouldn't try to paint an active connection to EoE and Q with a 14 year time skip, since Eva Jo came before Q and was only 10 years after the release of EoE. :tongue:
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:29 am

Yeah but 3.0 is when it becomes an actual conconnection , the other two films are reverse parallel retread.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:42 am

you're really reaching here - the more closely you look at it the less likely it becomes.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby robersora » Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:24 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I really wouldn't try to paint an active connection to EoE and Q with a 14 year time skip, since Eva Jo came before Q and was only 10 years after the release of EoE. :tongue:


I could imagine Anno was like, "we need a time skip... lol, it's been 15 years since EoE - and everything has become worse in Anime since.. Let's take that as a meta-easter-egg" ^_^
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