Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:48 pm

^ See, I'd agree with your assessment of The Curst of Eva being "eye-rolling" in its fanservice if the movie actually bothered to do anything about the fact that they're 14-year-old. If it's loli fanservice one is looking for, a viewer of Q would be very dismayed about all of the Kaworu and Shinji screen time that's there instead.

Eva Q: "Asuka still looks 14!"

Audience: "Can we see?"

Eva Q: "But why? Here's some Kaworu screen time instead."
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Sachi » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:53 pm

The excessive fan service in 2.22 seemed intentional. It fits well with the the idea, along with the general upbeatness of the action arc, that 2.22 was the bait for when 3.33 pulls the rug out from under everyone. It makes even more sense when you notice that 3.33 has very little to no fanservice of that kind.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:14 pm

^ Yep.

To generalize things a great deal:
1.11 gives the viewer the Same Old Eva with a pretty theatrical facelift.
"It's like watching my favorite show but prettier!"

2.22 gives the viewer the Eva they always thought they wanted.
"Asuka & Rei are being so cute! And Shinji finally mans up! Yes!"

3.33 gives the viewer Eva what it really is.
"So really what you're telling me is Eva is about feeling alienated from the world around you? That none of the sci-fi mumbo jumbo matters & the story when you get down to it is really all about what one person feels & wants. Ok."

The first two films are great but they intentionally pander to the fans.* The third entry is always going to have viewers who hate it because 3.33 doesn't want to simply be enjoyed. It wants to ENGAGE with the viewer. Have a real discussion. And when a work of art engages with people there will always be those viewers who A) disagree with what the conversation is saying, B) don't understand what the conversation is about & C) simply refuse to engage. All three are valid viewpoints to have towards a work of art for one reason or another & all three are common responses to films that try to do more than entertain.

The real mystery is what will Final be.

*Note: When I talk about fans I mean the average viewer who has a casual relationship with NGE. They've watched the series once or twice, enjoy it as entertainment, collect a few figurines of busty Eva pilots because the "redhead was cute" & that's where the relationship ends. The idea of posting thousands of detailed responses on a forum dedicated to one show is beyond them.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:26 pm

Okay, everyone needs to stop with the curse of Eva being stupid thing.

Yeah it can be just entirely for merchandising purposes, because no one wants to fap to an adult Asuka.

But honestly, we were never told as an audience what would happen if they were piloting the evangelions long-term. They were supposed to only be piloting those things for under a year before instrumentality happened. And we were told that there would be consequences for interacting with the angels.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Glor » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:26 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:^ See, I'd agree with your assessment of The Curst of Eva being "eye-rolling" in its fanservice if the movie actually bothered to do anything about the fact that they're 14-year-old. If it's loli fanservice one is looking for, a viewer of Q would be very dismayed about all of the Kaworu and Shinji screen time that's there instead.

Eva Q: "Asuka still looks 14!"

Audience: "Can we see?"

Eva Q: "But why? Here's some Kaworu screen time instead."


Eva Q, pls stahp.

But does there really need to be a excessive amount of it just to count as fanservice? Asuka being forever 14 feels like it was done less to add something new and interesting to Eva and more to let fans keep the image of their teenage waifu and sell more Asuka-variant merchandise.

Then Sachi was all like:

Sachi wrote:The excessive fan service in 2.22 seemed intentional. It fits well with the the idea, along with the general upbeatness of the action arc, that 2.22 was the bait for when 3.33 pulls the rug out from under everyone. It makes even more sense when you notice that 3.33 has very little to no fanservice of that kind.


And it gets me thinking now. Suddenly Asuka still being 14 makes sense, not because it's a good plot twist or whatever, but because it's like a slap in the face to the fans. Often, depictions of Asuka and Shinji from the fandom involve a sappy and romantic relationship from their own desire to counteract the confused and twisted one we get in the Anime, to the point where the characters lose much of their depth and just become teenage-angst cutouts. After building up these whimsical notions in 2.22, Anno ruthlessly tears them down with an Asuka that looks (mostly) the same, but is openly aggressive and resentful towards Shinji, as if to say, "This is reality, and reality is harsh, stop pretending."

Which is, like, one of Anno's favorite things to say with teenagers and giant robots.

EDIT: Aw, GP summed it up pretty well.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Ray » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:40 pm

It was done to preserve the twist of the time skip. If Asuka and Mari looked 28, that would have spoiled it in the trailer.

. . . And Anno is a total pervert. . .
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:57 pm

Actually, Anno is a puritan. He really hate the idea of masturbating, or anything sexual.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:41 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Actually, Anno is a puritan. He really hate the idea of masturbating, or anything sexual.


Are you serious?
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:03 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Actually, Anno is a puritan. He really hate the idea of masturbating, or anything sexual.

Have you seen the either the last third of Death and Rebirth or the opening to EoE before? :huh: It may prove your theory quite wrong.

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Okay, everyone needs to stop with the curse of Eva being stupid thing.

Yeah it can be just entirely for merchandising purposes, because no one wants to fap to an adult Asuka.

If Anno is such a puritan, why would the curse of the Eva be purely for that reason?
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby silvermoonlight » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:19 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Actually, Anno is a puritan. He really hate the idea of masturbating, or anything sexual.


No offence intended but Anno in my view is very dark and kind of perverted and the opening scene of EOE is bad because its not normal behaviour you'd expect to see from a hero or lead character.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:40 pm

Given that the scene was portrayed in quite the negative light (Shinji even pretty much condems himself with "I'm the lowest"), Chaddy may have a point
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:52 pm

View Original PostArcadia's legacy wrote:Given that the scene was portrayed in quite the negative light (Shinji even pretty much condems himself with "I'm the lowest"), Chaddy may have a point

Regardless of whether or not he condemns himself, it still happened, and negative or not, it would disprove Chaddy's point about Anno being a puritan. A puritan wouldn't have done that scene. Look in the manga to see how that scene could have been done differently without any masturbation
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:56 pm

Arcadia, I don't think that scene was criticizing "masturbation" in and of itself. The circumstances are slightly too, shall we say, specific...

Anyway, the proper response to Chaddy's post is to demand that little thing conspicuously missing from his amazing claim to begin with: an actual source. Can we move on?
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:19 pm

Sorry what I meant was, is that sex, masturbation, nudity is never portrayed positively in his works. Which makes me think that he views such acts improper or negative.

Coupled with the interviews he's given where he spoken about his disgust with people masturbating or looking at porn, certainly give the impression of a man who does not approve of the taboo.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby DarkBluePhoenix » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:25 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Sorry I shouldn't have said Puritan, what I meant to say is he has an aversion to sex and nudity, and and if they take place it's always portrayed in a negative light.


As Reichu mentioned above
Reichu wrote:Anyway, the proper response to Chaddy's post is to demand that little thing conspicuously missing from his amazing claim to begin with: an actual source. Can we move on?

So, do you have a source for this information?
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:37 pm

Sorry about that dark, my voice recognition thing kind of sucks. I hit submit to early comma But I really don't feel like typing.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Director Black » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:01 pm

View Original PostChaddyManPrime wrote:Sorry what I meant was, is that sex, masturbation, nudity is never portrayed positively in his works. Which makes me think that he views such acts improper or negative.

Coupled with the interviews he's given where he spoken about his disgust with people masturbating or looking at porn, certainly give the impression of a man who does not approve of the taboo.


Looking into more interviews on the guy, it's more the fact that to him, an ambitious project like Eva spawned an Otaku fanbase which he himself outgrew and now despises.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:13 pm

Sometimes it seems like there are as many different Hideaki Annos as there are people commenting on him. Which, going by episode 16, would be true in its own way. But for the purposes of productive conversation, we want better than just the Hideaki Anno Who Exists In My Mind. Unless we start seeing some links to the original statements immediately, this is a futile tangent that needs to die.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Director Black » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:02 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Sometimes it seems like there are as many different Hideaki Annos as there are people commenting on him. Which, going by episode 16, would be true in its own way. But for the purposes of productive conversation, we want better than just the Hideaki Anno Who Exists In My Mind. Unless we start seeing some links to the original statements immediately, this is a futile tangent that needs to die.


Using Evangelion quotes to shut the annoying part of the fanbase down. Brilliant.

Seriously though, Eva is a flawed work, but for this I'd like to point out what I've learned from one of my other favorite anime: Kino's Journey (Loosely). The worst parts of people can overshadow their good traits, but sometimes, it makes their greatest aspects stand out even more. Even if 3.0. + 1.0. won't turn out to be great or at least good, I can at least be happy for guy for getting as far he did with his career.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Guy Nacks » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:04 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Unless we start seeing some links to the original statements immediately, this is a futile tangent that needs to die.



Or you could just make a new thread topic, move it into Discussion, and title it something along the lines of "Anno's views on sex, as presented by his works."

Wasn't there a self-interview that he did where he listed his sex drive as "average" or something along those lines?

Also, I mean, I don't think his interpretation of a sex scene in Kare Kano is anything approaching negative.
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And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996


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