Spike Spencer's Acting in Evangelion 3.33

[GoatJesus]

OK. So I got my hands on an American release of 3.33 not too long ago. I heard they were redoing the performances from the theatrical dub (I actually know this to be a fact due to some comparisons with camrips.) However, I was slightly disappointed with Spike as Shinji in this film--especially since Megumi Ogata really nailed the screams, emotions and overall embodied the character super well. If you know me, you'll know I'm not a sub elitist or anything despite how critical I am of translation in the English language and the quality of dubbing.

I might just be crazy, but I also think even I did better 2 years back when I made a fandub of (what I consider to be one of the key scenes from the film.) Just as well, it seems like *nearly nothing* was changed from the camrip of this scene to the official release. I've been making these dubs vs fandubs stuff this last day to hear the quality of official English voice acting with that of some kids in their mom's basement. Haha. Here's a link to that in case you're interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIlL_aUNAzc

However, I might just be full of myself and have no clue. What did you guys think? Is there even an "objective" way of quantifying acting quality? I know most of you will probably stick with Spike to the end, but I honestly think he should've probably let the role go to someone else for the Rebuilds. Is that mean? I think that's slightly mean. I don't know what I'm doing anymore. Hahaha.

Also, what did you guys think of others as well as the camrip to dub changes? Here's the camrips in HD btw:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wj9e6_evangelion-333-dub-original_auto

Thanks! Look forward to chatting.

[Ray]

Goat, why do you hate Spike so much?

[Lennik]

I know most of you will probably stick with Spike to the end, but I honestly think he should've probably let the role go to someone else for the Rebuilds.

I think that's a terrible idea. Spike has done very well.

[Glor]

I've always disliked Megumi Ogata as Shinji's VA. Do adolescent Japanese boys normally sound like 10 year old girls?

[ChaddyManPrime]

Yeah, at least Spike makes Shinji sound like he's hit puberty, Megumi can't capture the screaming or anger as well as he can.

[Bagheera]

Goat, why do you hate Spike so much?

Have you listened to him speak?

Yeah, at least Spike makes Shinji sound like he's hit puberty, Megumi can't capture the screaming or anger as well as he can.

This is reality, not Bizarro world. Ogata captures his screaming and anger like a human being, not like a second-rate VA in a sound studio.

[Arcadia's legacy]

So, Chaddy's opinion is the wrong opinion?
I thought you said there was no universal truth

[Bagheera]

So, Chaddy's opinion is the wrong opinion?
I thought you said there was no universal truth

I said there were good reasons to watch the dubs, and that people should watch whichever they prefer without reservation. But that does not by any stretch mean there's any sort of equivalency between Spike's acting ability and Ogata's. They're in completely different leagues.

[Glor]

I said there were good reasons to watch the dubs, and that people should watch whichever they prefer without reservation. But that does not by any stretch mean there's any sort of equivalency between Spike's acting ability and Ogata's. They're in completely different leagues.

This is still very subjective though. I don't think Ogata is as competent at capturing Shinji's emotions the same way as Spike. Sure, it could be because the acting from an English speaking VA compared to a Japanese VA is more easily empathized with for an English speaker. But there are Japanese VAs I like and think are really talented. Ogata is not one of them.

[Bagheera]

This is still very subjective though. I don't think Ogata is as competent at capturing Shinji's emotions the same way as Spike. Sure, it could be because the acting from an English speaking VA compared to a Japanese VA is more easily empathized with for an English speaker. But there are Japanese VAs I like and think are really talented. Ogata is not one of them.

I can't agree, personally, as I think her talent is obvious. But I agree it's at least somewhat subjective.

[pwhodges]

How much of the difference (if it is agreed on) is due to talent, and how much to Anno's involvement in one case and not the other?

[Bagheera]

How much of the difference (if it is agreed on) is due to talent, and how much to Anno's involvement in one case and not the other?

Both are significant factors IMO (and I don't know that it's even talent so much as training; VAs are trained like professional actors in Japan, and that is decidedly not the case in the West. Even those with a fair bit of talent are essentially winging it rather than relying on classical training).

[robersora]

I think Anno just drives Ogata to her emotional limit forcing some chilling performances out of her. As she said, she was in a state of mind where she imagined, she was responsible for the 2011 earthquake. Generally Anno affords the cast the luxury of enough time to indulge in their characters until he has the performance he envisioned.

The dub cast, on the other hand does not have these luxuries of time and direct instructions, so they naturally have a harder time capturing the nuanced deliveries. A role in Evangelion is not your run-of-the mill Anime role (featuring 5 emotions) either, so a lack of time to feel oneself into the characters and their subtleties directly results in a worse performance. I don't fault the dub casts, though. There's just not the time nor the money, nor (especially in the case of EoE and Q) expertise present to deliver a product matched in quality.


Which really wouldn't be that big a deal, but I think the English dub doesn't even understand what the Japanese cast does to make it so memorable in the first place. They don't even seem to understand what makes the Japanese cast so appealing on the very base level.

The biggest problem I see with the English dub is the extremely overstated, cartoony deliverance completely devoid of subtle nuance and naturalistic cadence. The English cast completely fails to capture the bare-bone rawness of the original. They shout louder, they act angrier, they talk wittier. Yes, the original boasts overtly complex language, but the cast pulls it off, to make it seem that these are just smart people talking in a complex manner. The dub seems to me like a stereotypical American Hollywood version, which just doesn't fit for Evangelion. Yes, there's crazy shit going on in Eva, but the Japanese cast still sells us to the idea, that these are human beings, because they don't talk like Anime characters. The English cast makes them Anime characters. And that's why, in my opinion the English dub is a failure in construction of the base level making the whole affair stand on shaky ground.

And yes, it is possible to do a good job. While the German dub is by no means perfect, it at least understands, which tone is to use.

[Arcadia's legacy]

If it were a failure as you say, then i doubt it would be as popular as it is

[FreakyFilmFan4ever]

If it were a failure as you say, then i doubt it would be as popular as it is

Adam Sandler is a failure, and yet also (for whatever reason) still popular. I'm not comparing Spike Spencer to Adam Sandler, I'm merely stating that popularity doesn't always have everything to do with talent. It's said that performers of pop songs play 3 chords in front of 3,000 people, while a Jazz artist plays 3,000 chords in front of 3 people. Talent isn't always the motivation of popularity, rather ease of accessibility is the motivation for popularity. In this sense, I think it has less to do with what the artist is putting forth and more to do with the audience who receives it. Of course a lot of people in English speaking countries will enjoy Spike Spencer's English dub acting over Megumi Ogata's Japanese language acting. Many times they enjoy it better for the simple fact that he's speaking English and not Japanese. It's more accessible for them. That in it of itself holds a lot of sway as to how people receive the performance. It's not that Spike Spencer has a better grasp of the portrayal of honest emotions than Megumi Ogata does, rather that his mannerisms and spoken language is something more familiar and more accessible to an English-speaking audience than Ogata's was. If, say, Elijah Wood voiced Shinji's English dub instead, he would also have mannerisms and language patterns more familiar and accessible to an English-speaking audience and still theoretically give a performance better than Spike Spencer did. In fact, his performance of raw emotions might do for an English audience what Ogata's did for a Japanese audience.

Also, +1 to what robersora said.

[KingXanaduu]

^
Amen Freaky and Rob, AMEN. Ogata just captures the more Raw, visceral feeling of Shinji than Spike really could, plus Ogata fits the more effeminate voice that Shinji is supposed to have as a character.

[Arcadia's legacy]

So, is there nothing to appreciate from spike at all?

[Bagheera]

So, is there nothing to appreciate from spike at all?

His segment on Did You Know Anime? was very good IMO. He does take care to get his pronunciations right, I have to give him that.

[Arcadia's legacy]

I'm talking about NGE, EoE and NTE. I plan to watch each of these dubbed eventually, and i'd rather go in knowing something positive about them rather than constantly hearing "Oh, how inferior all this is compared to the original". Also, i'd prefer a better reason to watch them than simply "It's more accessible"

[KingXanaduu]

^
Bear in mind Arcadia, this is just OUR opinion, not facts. We just provided our explanations to our opinions that work for us, but they DON'T have to work with you.

If you see something that Spike does better than Ogata in your opinion, kudos to you, and voice your opinion. That's what we're here to do, to debate, but it's nothing personal or anything like that. We're just stating our preferences.